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Air Canada & The 737  
User currently offlineYULspotter From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

Hello.

With Air Canada's aging fleet of A319's and A320's as well as their apparent move back to Boeing aircraft with their recent 777 and 787 order, I was wondering about the chance of Air Canada ordering 737's to replace their A319's and A320's.

They're currently one of the few North American carriers that don't have any 737s in their fleet. I find this fact to be quite interesting when it is estimated that a 737 takes off somewhere in the world every 5 seconds.

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts/ideas on this.

Personally, I would love to see a 737-700, 800 or 900 with winglets in AC's colors.

According to Air Canada's website, there current fleet of A319's & A320's consist of the following:
51 Airbus A320
48 Airbus A319

YULspotter.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6427 times:

I sure do miss these little guys, didn't get to shoot many of them...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Keith Bradley



Mike


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6422 times:

The A319 and A320 fleet will start dropping like flies. There will be no B737 added to the fleet anytime soon. As the E190 arrive,expect to see the Buses leave almost 1 for 1. Rumour has it AC bought it's E190 at half the cost of a new A320...you do the math.

User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6418 times:

Quoting YULspotter (Thread starter):
According to Air Canada's website, there current fleet of A319's & A320's consist of the following:
51 Airbus A320
48 Airbus A319

airfleets.net shows 47 active A319s, 47 active A320s, and 10 active A321s:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Air%20Canada.htm

As for AC getting B737NGs, I personally highly doubt it. One of the reasons that they are replacing their long-haul fleet with B787s/B777s is to simplify it. I don't think they would want to add another type to their short-haul fleet; it will contradict their strategy. The small 'buses do a good job for AC. I think AC will stick with them until Airbus and Boeing have their A320/B737 replacements ready... then it will get interesting.  Wink

My  twocents 

Safe flying!

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1436 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

Quoting YULspotter (Thread starter):
I was wondering about the chance of Air Canada ordering 737's to replace their A319's and A320's.

No chance! Big grin
As stated the 319s, 320s, and 321s do an excellent job for AC and any new aquisitions are going the way of ERJ175 & ERJ190s.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16365 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6377 times:

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 4):
As stated the 319s, 320s, and 321s do an excellent job for AC

More the case that the 32x series does a similar job that the NG could do, rather than an excellent job.

Until Boeing (or Airbus) can offer a markedly better product, AC has no reason to replace the 32x series.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 666 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6286 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
As the E190 arrive,expect to see the Buses leave almost 1 for 1

I don't think so. There will be 10 A320s or so and three A319s leaving the fleet in the short-medium term (according to the ACE Aviation 2005 annual report) , however that is all. They will not be leaving on a 1:1 basis.


Air Canada's A320 fleet may be aging, however they are still very efficient aircraft. The A319s are only ten years old and less, and the A321 even younger. Air Canada will not replace their narrowbody fleet until Boeing and Airbus have at least announced their new 737/A32X replacements. This will only happen after the 787s have started entering the fleet.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6073 times:

Its very interesting how AC having mixed a/c in the fleet. Soon to be all widebodied boeing jets, narrowbodied airbuses and regional jets embraer and as for AC Jazz all bombardier.

User currently offlineSlarty From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6039 times:

Quoting Mikephotos (Reply 1):
I sure do miss these little guys, didn't get to shoot many of them...

I assume that the photo of the 737 in AC colours would have been an ex-CP plane? Would that be correct?

I still fondly remember the era of AC's single-aisle workhorse fleet of DC-9s  Smile prior to the A32X replacement fleet. Or has my memory failed me? lol


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31393 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6039 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I also cannot see AC adding 737NGs. They will wait until the 737RS/A320RS enters service and then order.

User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6003 times:

Quoting Slarty (Reply 8):
I assume that the photo of the 737 in AC colours would have been an ex-CP plane? Would that be correct?

Correct. Click on the registration and the photos will give you a good idea of the history of the plane...

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5897 times:

It is important to note that the A320's are getting old, however, the A319's and A321's are still relatively new. It would not make sense for them to move to the Boeing's at this point in time.

We will probably see them order some of the A320 replacements, unless one absolutely outperforms the other (such as the 777 vs. A340). It just wouldn't make financial sense, plus, AC is still a major Airbus operator, and will continue to have a good relationship with Airbus.

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5870 times:

I personally don't think they'll be getting and 737's any time soon. Untill then, stick to the plan of taking all the paint of the planes to save money  Yeah sure

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5736 times:

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 4):

No chance!
As stated the 319s, 320s, and 321s do an excellent job for AC and any new aquisitions are going the way of ERJ175 & ERJ190s.

Kaz

Oh, never say never in the airline world - who would have thought that AC would dump their rather new A330/340 fleet in favor of the 777 family? And, everyone thought that AC buying the A350 to replace their large 767 fleet was a given - and, surprise, AC placed a large order for the 787. You never really know what will happen - airlines evolve, mangement changes, the manufacturers offer new products and either Airbus or Boeing offers an airline a very good deal and then the "impossible" suddenly happens.

To be honest, I also dont think that AC will be placing an order for the 737NG any time soon - their A32X fleet is still rather young and not in need of replacement - and, as pointed out, AC (like many other airlines) are now very interested in the E-jet family so its likely that any A32Xs retired by AC will be replaced by the newer, smaller and cheaper E-jet family.

In a few years time, AC will look for something new in the 125-200 seat category.....by then, I expect that Boeing and Airbus will have a clear plan for what will be on offer in that category, either newly designed aircrafts or further updates of the 737NG and A32X. At that point in time, will AC replace the A32X with a Boeing or Airbus product? Who knows?


User currently offlineYULspotter From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Guess I won't hold my breath waiting to see 737's in AC's fleet.
Well at least there's plenty of Westjet 737's to admire.

YULspotter


User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting YULspotter (Reply 14):
Well at least there's plenty of Westjet 737's to admire

I have a feeling that some time in the future, Westjet may become the new equivilant of Air Canada but better. We can only hope. I miss Canadian  Sad


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 15):
I have a feeling that some time in the future, Westjet may become the new equivilant of Air Canada but better.

With the new cabin upgrades and continually improving customer service at AC, and of course the frequent flyer program, Business class lounges, priority seating/baggage handling for biz pax, vast network/ frequencies and interline agreements to get you anywhere in the world, all of which already exist... I wouldn't hold your breath.

Kris
YYC



Word
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5283 times:

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 6):
I don't think so. There will be 10 A320s or so and three A319s leaving the fleet in the short-medium term (according to the ACE Aviation 2005 annual report) , however that is all. They will not be leaving on a 1:1 basis.

Okay,so it not 1 for 1,I think I said "almost". I recall reading the reduction of A320 family was to be 30. So if you look at the firm order for the E190(45),then it's more like 1.5 for 1.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5242 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
Rumour has it AC bought it's E190 at half the cost of a new A320...you do the math.

They are also half the size and have less range.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
They are also half the size and have less range.

Not quite half the size. Using AC standard 32" pitch,I suspect the difference is closer to 1/3 less in size. Granted the range is less,yet it will do trans-con domestic flights out of the YYZ hub. AC is not so much focused on having the most lift on major city pairs,rather,they are going after more point to point and frequency which ultimately drives the yield. It sort of follows the 787 point to point argument that comes up on this forum.


User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 666 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
And, everyone thought that AC buying the A350 to replace their large 767 fleet was a given

No, I think only you thought AC would purchase the A350  Wink

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 17):
I recall reading the reduction of A320 family was to be 30

I doubt it would be that much. According to the ACE Aviation 2006 Annual Report, about 16 A32X jets will be leaving the fleet, presumably in the short to medium term. An A319 has already been returned to the leasing company with two more about to go as well.


User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2597 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5087 times:

Quoting YULspotter (Thread starter):
With Air Canada's aging fleet of A319's and A320's

I would hardly describe the A319s as ageing!

I had the pleasure of flying on an ex-CP/AC B737-200 recently, which is now operated by Phoenix Aviation for Aero Asia, of Pakistan. You could still see where the 'Can>dian Business Class' wording had previously existed on the bulkhead.

I think the B732s looked great in the Air Canada scheme - I'm pretty sure the only time I ever saw one was at LAX, around 2001.


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
The A319 and A320 fleet will start dropping like flies. As the E190 arrive,expect to see the Buses leave almost 1 for 1.

The E190s are in a different category than the A320 family. While the range may be similar, the capacity is quite smaller; especially the A321.

The E-Jets were brought in for US routes like YYZ-ATL and YYC-IAH where even filling up a A319 can be tough. The 319/320/321s will still be the backbone for most domestic routes....

Can't wait to see E175s flying YYZ-MSY hopefully soon....

[Edited 2006-04-10 15:52:55]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineBOAC707 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 278 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Perhaps when AC buys out WestJet they will keep the 737's....


OK I'm joking...

737's have not ever been an AC favourite...they have had DC-9 and the 727's and now the Airbus fleet but never (until the take over)....the 737.



smokey classics to the end of time
User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 15):

I have a feeling that some time in the future, Westjet may become the new equivilant of Air Canada but better. We can only hope. I miss Canadian

How many times have you flown AC, WS or even CP for that matter? Your profile says your 13-15, so that would make you at most 9 when CP ceased to be. What are you basing your comments on?


25 AirCanada014 : Did you know before AC bought A320s they were looking to buy B737-500s. They had to decide the Airbus or the Boeings.
26 LongHauler : A deal was actually inked with 35 B737-300s and 35 B737-400s, with Boeing taking on the sale of the DC-9s and the B727-200s. It was a shock to ALL wh
27 BA747YYZ : I don't see them ordering new 737's or A320 family in the near future, they are not that old, and has been said they are getting new Embrarer's but th
28 Post contains images YUL332LX : Same here.
29 YULspotter : I should probably clarify that when I said that AC's fleet of A319s & A320s was ageing, I didn't mean that they were getting old - just getting to an
30 9252fly : I keep seeing references to the previous annual reports and as much as I accept that,my figures come from a little known release from 2004 that clear
31 Post contains images AC7E7 : Sorry, I meant 2005 annual report, not the 2006 report, which is not due out for another year I do not doubt you. Could you provide a link? I'd love
32 9252fly : Sorry no link available. What I can tell you,is that it originated from a Globe and Mail article. It was a chart with a year to year fleet breakdown
33 N1120A : In a 2 class configuration, the E190 is supposed to hold 90 seats. That is slightly more than half the size of a typical A320. In AC's configuration,
34 9252fly : Close enough! The configurations for the E190 are,9-J / 84-Y. The A320 is 20-J / 120-Y.
35 AC7E7 : Who was acquitted I may add. The Liberals were accused of a smear campaign against the former PM. Mulroney ended up making millions after filing a la
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