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Zurich As A Star Alliance Hub  
User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1693 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Just wondering, now that SWISS has officially joined the Star Alliance, what impact will this have on traffic at their hub in Zurich? Spanair for example will soon start operating three daily flights from Spain. Obviously I'm hoping other airlines in the alliance, such as NH or OZ, might opt to open new (longhaul)routes to ZRH as well. Or is this completely unrealistic?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUAalltheway From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Because Swiss is still really new to the Star Alliance, I think it's going to be quite a while before it gets a lot of alliance traffic.

I think LH's FRA hub will still be considered the big European Star Alliance hub.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5564 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Star is already by far the strongest alliance in Zurich. Swiss with most flights, second LH. Other Star carriers to ZRH: SK, LO, OS, AC, UA, SQ, TG, SA, TP. And Spanair soon coming. Then there will be 12 out of 18 Star airlines flying to Zurich. I think this is quite a lot.



[Edited 2006-04-11 20:43:52]

[Edited 2006-04-11 20:45:39]

User currently offlineHBIHLtoEZE From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 280 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

I'd say ZRH is on the way to become a substantial hub for the Star Alliance - as ZRH mentioned above ZRH is served by 10 bigger Star members (including SWISS) and also by regional members JP, OU and newly, by KF (with the elegant MD-90s).

A good indication that ZRH is attractive for further Star expansion is the LX codeshare with AC from Toronto via ZRH to Delhi.

And one should not forget about ZRH's central position in Europe and the fact that the Midfield Terminal is oversized, so there would be room.

Over 50 % of ZRH's pax figures are generated by Swiss - so this is definitely some potential for new codeshares.
I 'd expect CA's return to ZRH as soon as they are finally onboard of Star.

Cheers



Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

With LX and SA operating the ZRH-JNB route,does anyone foresee a code-share between the two carriers and a possible withdrawal of one of them? It would make sense for both carriers as they lack enough wide-body aircraft to deploy on other potential routes.

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5564 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 4):
With LX and SA operating the ZRH-JNB route,does anyone foresee a code-share between the two carriers and a possible withdrawal of one of them? It would make sense for both carriers as they lack enough wide-body aircraft to deploy on other potential routes

I agree. I really don't think that two ZRH-JNB flights a day are economic. As they now are in the same alliance, one airline should give up the route. Although this route for Swiss (Swissair) is very traditional I rather hope LX to give it up. Swiss could use the spare aircraft to China and we would keep SA in Zurich as foreign airline.


User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1384 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SWISS wholly owned by LH, and therefore LH controls LX's route network?

To that end, I would have expected LX to end up like Croatia Airlines, kind of a feeder airline into FRA.


User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

I think next year you might see US start PHL-ZRH. I believe that
is one of the many route authorities to Europe they recently filed
with the D.O.T.

I know Swissair used to fly PHL-BOS-ZRH with a 747, so I assume
there is a little bit of demand for this route.

Maybe UA might add an ORD-ZRH flight to compliment IAD-ZRH.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1553 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Any chances that NH or OZ will go to ZRH?

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 7):
Maybe UA might add an ORD-ZRH flight to compliment IAD-ZRH.

I believe LX already has an ORD-ZRH service.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 8):
I believe LX already has an ORD-ZRH service.

Yes, they do.
But look at how much route duplication there is between LH and UA
out of ORD and IAD, and LH has the controlling interest of LX.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1693 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

As far as SAA is concerned, I suppose eventually they'll leave ZRH. They've already reduced the frequency to only three weekly flights. I expect when LX eventually manages to obtain additional aircraft and will be able to operate the flight daily, SA will stop flying to ZRH.

As for PHL-ZRH on US, that would be really cool. Such a classic livery.

I also wonder what the other carriers with which LX used to cooperate will do now. AA for example will be loosing quite a few code-share flights from ZRH. Anybody know if there are any chances of them operating some of these themselves?


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2861 times:
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Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 6):
To that end, I would have expected LX to end up like Croatia Airlines, kind of a feeder airline into FRA.

Well, ZRH is a decently high-yield destination and there is a good amount of business traffic that warrants nonstops to key cities like JFK, NRT, etc. LH is not going to give that business traffic up to foreign carriers...

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 10):
I also wonder what the other carriers with which LX used to cooperate will do now. AA for example will be loosing quite a few code-share flights from ZRH. Anybody know if there are any chances of them operating some of these themselves?

I doubt very much AA will start feeder flights from ZRH (like the old Pan Am intra-Europe network out of FRA) - it's very uneconomical to base a set of planes in Europe for airlines like AA to do just a few short rotations a day. AA might even drop one of its two transatlantics out of ZRH once the LX codeshares are completely done. For now, LX still codeshares on the ZRH-DFW flight and AA still codeshares on some of LX's intra-Europe flights, thus helping to feed both the JFK and DFW flights. Once all of these end (after this summer I believe), I really don't think AA can support both flights, especially in the winter.


User currently offlineHBIHLtoEZE From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 280 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 6):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SWISS wholly owned by LH, and therefore LH controls LX's route network?

To that end, I would have expected LX to end up like Croatia Airlines, kind of a feeder airline into FRA.

When LH took them over, LH gave a so called 'guarantee' to maintain ZRH as a hub next to FRA and MUC.

There should not be any cuts at ZRH for the time being as Swiss operates profitably now, so rather further expansions made sense. There is still the rumour that LH will provide another two long haul jets to Swiss once they are profitable - that'd be now, however, the major working contract with the pilots will be renegotiated in June and this might have an impact on the acquisition of further long haul jets...


Cheers



Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

First, LX should take the ZRH-NRT to daily. I believe its at six a week.
Having both NH & LX on the NRT-ZRH is probably overkill. If LX can expand its widebody fleet further perhaps a re-start of the ZRH-KIX or new ZRH-NGO can be possible.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 10):
I expect when LX eventually manages to obtain additional aircraft and will be able to operate the flight daily, SA will stop flying to ZRH.

I was under the impression that LX operates this flight daily?


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5564 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
I was under the impression that LX operates this flight daily?

No, at the moment six times, not on Wednesdays.


User currently offlineFlySAA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Thread starter):
As far as SAA is concerned, I suppose eventually they'll leave ZRH. They've already reduced the frequency to only three weekly flights. I expect when LX eventually manages to obtain additional aircraft and will be able to operate the flight daily, SA will stop flying to ZRH.

Looks like SAA has now officially stopped direct flights to ZRH. When you try to do a booking on SAA's website, JNB - FRA - ZRH is displayed. Flights from FRA - ZRH with LH. Funny that nothing about the termination of the ZRH flights is mentioned on SAA's website.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 7):
I think next year you might see US start PHL-ZRH. I believe that
is one of the many route authorities to Europe they recently filed
with the D.O.T.

Does anyone have a link to the DOT dockets that US filed? I'm wondering how many markets were applied for service beginning next summer? I've been trying to study US' route applications to Europe from 1996-current. Only two were ever turned down--PHL-MXP in 1999 (DL got it for 2X JFK-MXP), and BOS-CDG (AA got it).



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Quoting FlySAA (Reply 16):
Looks like SAA has now officially stopped direct flights to ZRH. When you try to do a booking on SAA's website, JNB - FRA - ZRH is displayed. Flights from FRA - ZRH with LH. Funny that nothing about the termination of the ZRH flights is mentioned on SAA's website.

Wrong. Flights via FRA will be quoted when there isn't any non-stop SA flight available and on days of direct ops (SAA flies JNB-ZRH on days 2/4/6 and ZRH-JNB 3/5/7) as an additional option.



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3432 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2186 times:
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Quoting FlySAA (Reply 16):
Looks like SAA has now officially stopped direct flights to ZRH. When you try to do a booking on SAA's website, JNB - FRA - ZRH is displayed. Flights from FRA - ZRH with LH. Funny that nothing about the termination of the ZRH flights is mentioned on SAA's website.

Online bookings on SA's website is sort of "unstable" at this stage. It must be teething problems with Amadeus - you get extremely strange errors. I just made a mock-up booking for November-December on the SA website. SA's ZRH flights are still loaded and a fare was generated. They are also still loaded in Amadeus and Worldspan.


Rgds

SA7700



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