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Horizon Air: Looking At The EMB-190  
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6004 posts, RR: 24
Posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7728 times:

Its been confirmed in our inter-company forum that QX is looking at the EMB-190.

Q. I've heard that Horizon Air is looking to add the EMB190 aircraft to its fleet. How does this aircraft fit into the plan?

A. Horizon is indeed looking at the EMB190 aircraft, as well as the CRJ900 and other aircraft that may be candidates for growth aircraft in support of our long-term Alaska Air Group strategic plan. The Alaska and Horizon planning teams work jointly in this planning process, and we make it our business to be up on the details of all aircraft types for this purpose. As a result, we're continually in the loop with (and being pitched by) all aircraft manufacturers, including Embraer. However, that said, we're still quite a ways from making a decision on this, or any other type of new aircraft.

Fleet and market planning for Air Group is a collaborative process between Alaska and Horizon and an extension of the "harmonization" initiatives that have proved fruitful for both companies. Recommendations stem from a thorough analysis of many things, including current fleet compositions, existing market performance and future market opportunity, competitive and economic assumptions, etc. From there, the planning teams further refine the fleet plans in an effort to identify what we'll need that we currently don't have if we're to capitalize on the opportunities. During this stage, the planning groups are looking to match each market opportunity to the optimal aircraft/schedule solution and also to determine if Alaska or Horizon have the right aircraft in the fleet, or not. Over the years, this process has led us to consider adding 737-800s to the Alaska fleet and more Q400s to the Horizon fleet.

We will continue to evaluate new categories of airplanes as market and competitive conditions determine. Our goal, which we've remained consistent with, is to make fleet decisions that provide long-term profitable growth for both companies, and not to grow one company at the expense of the other.

Horizon Air (April 12, 2006) www.alaskasworld.com

This come from a Q & A forum.

ASLAX


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7643 times:

My bet is QX will go CRJ900 for fleet commonality, but I would rather see the jungle jets for greater passenger comfort. The Bombardier aircraft are very good aircraft, they are just a little cramped for me.

Thanks for the news!


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting Frugalqxnwa (Reply 1):
My bet is QX will go CRJ900 for fleet commonality, but I would rather see the jungle jets for greater passenger comfort.

From a commonality point of view it makes sense... but look at Mesa's decision to move to the E195 even though they were the CRJ900's launch customer.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

The difference between QX and Mesa is QX is an all-Bombardier fleet while Mesa already operates the 145. I doubt QX will introduce an aircraft completely different from all their other aircraft when they have the option of an aircraft that is essentially a streach of an aircraft they already have (CRJ700). However, I would be very happy if I am wrong especially since the comfort of the 190 would match QX's excellent service.

User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7592 times:

I am surprised that AS pilots don't want to fly the 190 for themselves.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7571 times:

Quoting Frugalqxnwa (Reply 3):
The difference between QX and Mesa is QX is an all-Bombardier fleet while Mesa already operates the 145.

FYI, the 145 has no commonality with the E-jets so Mesa continuing with the CRJ900s (which they already have 15 CRJ700s and 39 CRJ900s) would obviously have made the most "sense" but they are not. I would not rule out completely QX picking the E-jets.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7544 times:

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 4):
I am surprised that AS pilots don't want to fly the 190 for themselves.

I actually have thought that the 190/195 would more than likely end up in more mainline fleets and the 170/175 would end up with the connection carriers; Horizon, Mesa, SkyWest etc..



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 5):
FYI, the 145 has no commonality with the E-jets so Mesa continuing with the CRJ900s (which they already have 15 CRJ700s and 39 CRJ900s) would obviously have made the most "sense" but they are not. I would not rule out completely QX picking the E-jets.

I didn't know if there was any commonality, but thanks for the info. Just keep in mind that Mesa and QX are two different companies, and QX is currently profitable and pretty conservative. QX probably will want to stay with a one-manufacturer fleet for now, but the E190 would be a pleasant surprise.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7265 times:
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I understand Mesa/GO's plans for the E195s are mainly due to the enormous amounts of cargo and pax baggage on the HI inter-island flights, allowing them to compete with the 717s already flying. But isn't QX quite happy with their CR7s and this might just be a scare tactic to wring some juicy discounts from BBD on the CRJ900s? Does QX have pilot scope-clause restrictions allowing 70 seats only - which are soon-to-be loosened to allow 80+ seats?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2896 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7254 times:
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My bet is that QX ends up with the E-Jet line. AS has seen the benefits of buying models part of a versatile family (operating 737-700, 800, and 900), and QX will very likely follow in that trend. With Bombardier already looking beyond the CRJ line, the CRJ-200/700/900 lineup seems to me not to be enhanced or changed much further, where the E-Jets are at the beginning of what will likely be a very fruitful life.

AS has made these sorts of leaps before -- they ordered a good number of MD-90 on top of their MD-80 fleet before changing direction and embracing the 737.


User currently offlineH53Epilot From Israel, joined Mar 2004, 177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 2):
From a commonality point of view it makes sense... but look at Mesa's decision to move to the E195 even though they were the CRJ900's launch customer.

Mesa pilots will NOT fly the 195, despite what Orenstein wishes. They shot down his desires to operate 737s because he was going to pay them peanuts and working conditions are the worst in the industry.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16948 posts, RR: 48
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7203 times:

Quoting AS739X (Thread starter):
Its been confirmed in our inter-company forum that QX is looking at the EMB-190.

EVERYBODY is looking at the plane.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5831 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7164 times:
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Either way, I think it will be cool to see some new equipment QX. What part of QX will be seeing the new jets? Frontier or Alaska?

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6004 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7116 times:

Maverick: Understood. I'm just letting you know that it was posted on the Alaska/Horizon website. Not every carrier looking at a plane posted it on their site. That being said I just posted this for all you A.netters!

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7055 times:

Flashmeister: in reply to your post # 19; AS has never had the M90 in its fleet. They have looked at the aircraft and maybe considered an order, but the M90 never wore AS colors. All AS had from McDD was the M83.

Don't forget to add the 734 with the other 737 types you mentioned in your post. I doubt the 734's are on their way out anytime soon.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offline737-990 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 364 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6959 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
Flashmeister: in reply to your post # 19; AS has never had the M90 in its fleet. They have looked at the aircraft and maybe considered an order, but the M90 never wore AS colors. All AS had from McDD was the M83.

Actually, AS was an initial launch customer for the MD-90 along with Delta, it had 20 on order. When the economy tanked after '91 it later was allowed by MD to drop the MD90 in favor of more MD80s.

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 4):
I am surprised that AS pilots don't want to fly the 190 for themselves.

-SOAC

Interesting comment. Alaska doesn't have a scope clause, however it must tread carefully not to provoke one from it's pilots. Up until a few years ago it was careful to make sure QX didn't invade AS turf, however, since 9/11 Airgroup has had an active harmonization program where QX has taken over AS in several markets, specifically out of PDX. I know this is already a bone of contention with AS pilots. If QX introduced an aircraft in the 100 seat category it would only bring this issue to the forefront. The contract is up next year and everyone knows it's going to get hot as the pilots try to recoup part or all of the 26% pay cut.



Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24646 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6926 times:
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Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
What part of QX will be seeing the new jets? Frontier or Alaska?

Very interesting question.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineN730AS From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 126 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6923 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
All AS had from McDD was the M83.


Don't forget the MD-82s from Jet America!



N730AS (s/n 22577) 737-290C Registered Jun-29-1981
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6832 times:

....and if Bombardier had the their collective s**t together, this discussion would be about Horizon talking with them. But alas, it is not, and Horizon has to look to another supplier to fulfill their mission obligations.

This fact is backed up by the very fact that if Horizon were happy with the CRJ900, Embraer would not even be talked about right now.

Truth is, the Embraer is a giant leap forward from anything Bombardier can offer at present.

Don't they realize this?

Hasn't their marketing department, like every other airframe manufacturer, identified this huge segment of the world's airline fleet that needs replacing?
Conservative estimates peg the 75-125 seat market at over 2,000 aircraft over the next 20 years.......and they are standing on the sidelines doing nothing? It is hard for me to believe.

Come on Bombardier, bite the proverbial bullet, commit to the funding, build the aircraft, or your future in this world will be very short indeed. The 737-200/300/500s and DC-9/MD80s will not last forever.....no matter what NW has to say on the subject!
 Wink



Delete this User
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6815 times:

Yes! I almost forgot about the M82's.

AS was never the launch customer for the M90. They were the launch customer for the M83. There is a plaque at the SEA base MX hangar showing that.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineN730AS From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 126 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6808 times:

AirframeAS, do you know how many of the MD-82s are still in the fleet, and which a/c they are?


N730AS (s/n 22577) 737-290C Registered Jun-29-1981
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6782 times:

730AS: at this time no. AS has been busy phasing out the MD's since 1998-99, but slowly. I have not been keeping track these days. When I was working there, we didn't have very many M82's, IIRC. I'm assuming the M82's have already been phased out.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3493 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6771 times:

An EMB-190 in QX colors would be hot, but I'm inclined to think they'll go with the CRJ-900 to maintain fleet commonality if they place an order for a larger RJ.


Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

WOW! That is great news. I would love to see the 190 creeping around on the ramp in SEA.

QX could easily drop the CRJ's in favor of the 190's. I recall seeing QX using 328's, and eventually dumping them.

Whatever works for QX. The 190 would be a great fit for them.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6004 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

N730AS: Here are your Mad Dawg's!

931A
934A
935A
943A
944A
947A
948A
949A
950A
958A
960A
961A
962A
964LA
965LA
968LA
969LA
972A
973A
974A
975A
976A
977A
979A
981A
982A

ASLAX

[Edited 2006-04-14 03:16:33]


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
25 Planemaker : They did... and proposed the BRJ-X... but "chickened out" when faced with the competition from FD and EMB... but thought that they could still succee
26 PlanesNTrains : I guess if the 190's went to Frontier JetExpress and the CRJ's stayed at Horizon Air operationally, there probably wouldn't be much of an issue with s
27 HikesWithEyes : All the ex-Jet America MDs are long gone. Thank god for that. They had smaller overhead bins and were getting a little long in the tooth.
28 HikesWithEyes : The were originally N778JA-N785JA. They were later renumbered N951AS, N953AS,N954AS,955AS,956AS,N957AS, N966AS.
29 Remcor : Yes, and then they decided to spend their efforts mulling a 120+ seat aircraft, where they'd be competing with Airbus and Boeing instead of a 70-110
30 AirframeAS : I had a feeling that all the M82s were gone, the very small overhead bins were a total joke. You couldn't fit very much in there.
31 717-200 : Not to digress from the topic, but when is the first 734 freighter (N709AS if i remember right) is supposed to return from its conversion in Alabama?
32 AS739X : 717-200: May 5th N709AS is scheduled to be sent back to Seattle (the combi) Jun 7th N768AS is scheduled to be sent back to Seattle (all freighter) ASL
33 AirframeAS : I thought 754 was supposed to become a combi. What happened to that aircraft? 709 is a much newer aircraft...why use newer aircraft for this project?
34 SupraZachAir : Actually you've got it reversed; the 1st a/c (N709AS) is the all freighter due back in May. The first combi comes in June.
35 AS739X : Airframe: They bombed the idea of 754AS becuase they wanted to keep the resale value of the 400combi up, so they used newer planes. Not to mention 754
36 Flying-Tiger : They had the chance to get someting completely new in 2002, without having to do everything by themselves, including a state-of-the-art production pl
37 Post contains links and images Flashmeister : Flashmeister: in reply to your post # 19; AS has never had the M90 in its fleet. They have looked at the aircraft and maybe considered an order, but t
38 Post contains images N730AS : AHEM!.......MD-82s!!!!
39 Planemaker : BBD actually had a 130-seat BRJ-X design on the drawing board when they cancelled the project in 2000. FD was not in trouble when BBD officially canc
40 Flying-Tiger : True, but IMO in late 2000 it was already very clear that the CRJ900 was not received in the market as expected, and that in the ranking FD728/928, E
41 Planemaker : Yes, the 900 hasn't had the impact that BBD had hoped but it was a "cheap" stretch. And the 700 has done quite well. But neither did the FD928 or ERJ
42 CRJ900 : I have kept a copy of Flight International magazine, 12-18 June 2001, where there is a report on the "Regional revolution" as part of their Paris 200
43 AirframeAS : It always have been dubbed the black sheep at AS. No question! Somebody mentioned that DL and AS were the co-launch customers for the M90 and I know
44 PlanesNTrains : Maybe it's semantics, but couldn't you be a launch customer initially but utlimately not take delivery of a single copy of that model? I'm thinking a
45 Post contains images UA_727 : I wasn't aware that the -900 was inferior to the -700 in terms of performance. Could someone please clarify? While it could certainly be chocked up t
46 Post contains images AirframeAS : I think the E190's are more sexier than the CRJ's....but that's just me.
47 Post contains images CRJ900 : Really? That is good to hear I don't mind being proven wrong when it comes to my favourite Canadian bird... more good news, please! I have read in av
48 H53Epilot : I suppose an example of this is the fact that Skywest is about to begin operating the 700 in/out of Aspen.
49 Planemaker : That statement by Blondin was complete spin that was a very lousy attempt to save face from the BRJ-X tactical retreat. Not one BBD customer asked fo
50 Post contains images CRJ900 : Of course they couldn't have predicted that. Other av-mag articles that I have read over the last four-five years suggest that the aviation world was
51 Planemaker : Yes, they couldn't find a launch customer (just like the C-Series.) But because the CRJ900 was an inexpensive simple/basic stretch, BBD did launch it
52 AirframeAS : Can anyone paintshop a QX E190??
53 Post contains images Sjot : it would look something like this:
54 DFORCE1 : Although I'm biased towards Bombardier being a Canadian, I have to say the QX livery looks magnificent on the ERJ. But why was QX never interested in
55 Post contains images QXatFAT : I want one of those in FAT! Lol thanks Sjot
56 AirframeAS : That looks GREAT!!! Soo sexy in that livery!! Thanks, Sjot!
57 Planemaker : Timing is one issue. The CSeries entry into service would have been in 2011 at the earliest (and depending upon which model was launched first, the 1
58 HikesWithEyes : You might be thinking of N745As, a -200. N754AS has been a good aircraft over the years.
59 AS739X : Airframe: As Hikes said, 754AS was a great plane. Just the age amd I imagine multiple trips into Alaska has aged it. As I type this the plane is on a
60 Post contains images F9Animal : How about seeing an F9 livery??
61 EA CO AS : Not sure, but last I heard the contract with Boeing for 738s does permit the latitude to "upsize" to the 739ER if AS chooses.
62 Post contains links Sjot : F9Animal ... http://www.jetsite.com.br/2006/mostr...l_mil=&funcao_mil=&ultima=&tarefa= there are a ton more photos of the ERJ retouched there as well
63 Aeronut : I often wonder if the BRJ-X was launched, Bombardier would have been in a dire situation during the company's downturn after 9/11, and would maybe ha
64 Post contains images MD90fan : The E-90 looks good in every c/s i've seen it in I think BBD will try their best to keep QX as a BBD only costumer though Cheers
65 AirframeAS : I forgot about 745AS..... That aircraft was a pain in my butt when I worked a C8 on it in 1998. Now I understand why it was dubbed as the black sheep.
66 Nonfirm : The 200's are based in anc for now.
67 Post contains links and images SUPRAZACHAIR : He's talking about 754AS, a 734. View Large View MediumPhoto © Michael Carter
68 Post contains images CRJ900 : And why shouldn't they... QX has quite a big BBD fleet of Dash-8s and CRJs already, so there must be good relations between the two companies. Also I
69 Nonfirm : I know it was a 400 but it is not based in anc only the 200's.When the 2 new freighters are completed they will also be based in anc.
70 AS739X : Supra/Airframe: N754AS was always a SEA based A/C. The only planes ever based in 1 city till a few years ago was the -200. They have always been based
71 Cactus739 : That's quite sexy......
72 Nonfirm : I think there is a scope in the current pilots (as) to not let QX get an a/c larger the 70 seats that was one of the reasons they did not pass the la
73 Jetboy319 : No scope at this point although some could say that an EMB-190 route on QX could be a good argument for an AS 73G. FYI, QX currently operates a 74 se
74 Airlinebrat : The Q-400's are going up to 76 seats? Darn. When QX started flying those planes they had 70 seats with @36" seat pitch. You could actually read a cop
75 AirframeAS : I was not talking about any of the -200s. I was asking about a SPECIFIC aircraft: N754AS! Thank you, SIR! Thanks, man. It is appreciated.
76 Suprazachair : Seat pitch will remain at 31", save for the last 5 rows on the left side which will be 30". It was a decision made after MVP's tested it out and basi
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