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DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service  
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4920 posts, RR: 25
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8730 times:
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DL will start Saturday-only LGA-LAS and LGA-LAX flights in addition to JFK-Burlington, VT. Also, JFK-RIC moved up to July 5 as noted previously in another thread:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060413/97391.html

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8721 times:

Doesn't LGA have some sort of distance restriction? Does it not apply on Saturdays?

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8706 times:

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
DL will start Saturday-only LGA-LAS and LGA-LAX flights

How did DL get around the perimeter rules at LGA? I remember US announcing they would start LGA-LAS in 2003, but it was cancelled due to "hot and high" concerns at LAS. I don't recall anyone ever flying LGA-LAX before nonstop. I remember TWA flying DCA-LAX before AA acquired their assets, but the route authority was cancelled as soon as AA touched TW.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1180 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8706 times:

ATA flew a LGA-SFO Saturday nonstop for a while. The perimiter restrictions don't apply on the weekends.

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8682 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 3):
The perimiter restrictions don't apply on the weekends.

To be exact, the perimeter restriction do not apply on saturday ONLY. Hence how DL has already been able to operate SLC-LGA for a few months already. And LGA-LAX/LAS are definitely two nice additions to DL's network, even if they're just once weekly.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8662 times:
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DL will start service if the pilots don't strike first.

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8653 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
To be exact, the perimeter restriction do not apply on saturday ONLY. Hence how DL has already been able to operate SLC-LGA for a few months already. And LGA-LAX/LAS are definitely two nice additions to DL's network, even if they're just once weekly.

Thanks DAL767400ER, I was wondering how they got those routes. SLC-LGA is a great idea, I'm surprised it wasn't thought of sooner. How do you get your info in Germany? You seem to be one of our resident "Delta guys." Welcome to my RR.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26593 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8641 times:

I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights. There is already so much LAX-JFK service (even if you leave out the services from other area airports) that there really isn't a competitive justification for this. The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5252 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights.

The simple answer is that people will choose to fly to LGA if they can. And remember, there's no requirement that people return to the airport that they left from, or that they return nonstop. There are plenty of folks who fly DL from LGA and connect at ATL or CVG (or, in the old days, DFW) to get where they are going. We're only talking about one flight a day to each location, one flight that makes good use of the otherwise-less-productive asset -- the DL terminal. So, not only will they pick up vacationers who want to go to Vegas or LAX for a week, they'll pick up folks who will depart or arrive at LGA on one leg, then depart or arrive at another NY airport for the other, or who will connect for one leg and go nonstop on another.

Note that US has done this very successfully as well for its service to various tropical islands. On Saturday morning, there are numerous flights to Island destinations leaving from LGA. It's great. People either stay a week or they come back via a connection.

Meanwhile, I noticed today that the DL service to ORD from the Marine Air Terminal is rocking, with very high load factors and numerous sold-out flights, many at very high fares ($600+ o/w, $500+o/w) for last-minute seats. Shameful from a consumer perspective (go take ATA or Airtran for gosh's sakes), but good for DL.

[Edited 2006-04-13 20:32:39]

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights. There is already so much LAX-JFK service (even if you leave out the services from other area airports) that there really isn't a competitive justification for this. The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it

A lot of New Yorkers prefer to fly out of LGA, I'm sure the route will do decently.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights. There is already so much LAX-JFK service (even if you leave out the services from other area airports) that there really isn't a competitive justification for this. The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it.

For loyal Delta customers.. it saves them a connection in CVG or ATL. Keeps passengers happy, saves them time. Leaving they can take a connection, out of LGA. There is no requirement for 7 days.


User currently offlineTIA From Albania, joined Mar 2006, 524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it.

Not only that, but LGA also "loses" its competitive edge on weekends, since without that much traffic JFK is not that much harder to reach from Manhattan.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26593 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8557 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):

That all assumes they are going to allow fare rules crossing airports. Also, it places a whole lot of faith in travellers knowing to switch airports for one of their legs or wanting to fly into LGA so much that they are willing to increase their travel time by making a connection. Also, what if you are a person who drives and parks at the airport? You can't make an open jaw/return then

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 9):
A lot of New Yorkers prefer to fly out of LGA, I'm sure the route will do decently.

Sure, but you are still stuck with waiting a week, switching airports or connecting. All of that cancels out LGA's advantages. Additionally, the better public transportation to JFK and EWR add to their advantages.

Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
Not only that, but LGA also "loses" its competitive edge on weekends, since without that much traffic JFK is not that much harder to reach from Manhattan.

And they then lose all that time they supposedly saved by flying into LGA in the first place

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 10):
For loyal Delta customers.. it saves them a connection in CVG or ATL. Keeps passengers happy, saves them time. Leaving they can take a connection, out of LGA. There is no requirement for 7 days.

Why would they want to take a connection if they booked a non-stop in the first place?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26593 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8547 times:

Please Delete, double post

[Edited 2006-04-13 20:48:54]


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8547 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Sure, but you are still stuck with waiting a week, switching airports or connecting. All of that cancels out LGA's advantages. Additionally, the better public transportation to JFK and EWR add to their advantages.

You don't have to do the round-trip through LGA, it provides another option in either direction.

As for public transportation, a lot of NYC natives take car services to the airport so that negates your latter comment.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineD950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8531 times:

It does seem odd that they do this after announcing that JFK was going to be their "hub". If they are that cash short, move things to JFK and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.


Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26593 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8531 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 14):
As for public transportation, a lot of NYC natives take car services to the airport so that negates your latter comment.

It doesn't negate my comment. Some take car services, some take public transportation, some take cabs and some drive themselves. This all goes into the balance.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 14):
You don't have to do the round-trip through LGA, it provides another option in either direction.

Which diminishes the appeal of LGA



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8474 times:

Funny, N1120A's viewpoint is correct from an objective viewpoint - why should DL bother with these two Saturday only services out of LGA? DL flies to the destinations out of JFK on a daily basis......but we are talking about NYC and LGA airport, and all of the normal rules change: a lot of NewYorkers really do prefer flying out of LGA (over JFK and EWR -even if both can be reached as quickly as LGA depending upon ones starting location) and jump at the chance to catch a flight out of LGA, especially to a destination that cannot oridnarily be served on a nonstop basis. The other issue is aircraft utilization - the two 757s will do turns to LAX and LAS respectively, when oridnarily they would be idle or flying biz routes with little demand on a Saturday.

It makes sense from a "new York point of view" and DL will do well with these two rather unsual weekly flights.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8449 times:

I kind of agree that I don't see the point of these flights. How has the SLC-LGA doing? I guess if that flight has been successful, then the others can too.

The thing is that LGA is a business-oriented airport, and a once weekly flight on a Saturday won't really do much to attract business passengers. I think LAS will be more popular than LAX, but who knows. At least they're trying something new.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8419 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
Meanwhile, I noticed today that the DL service to ORD from the Marine Air Terminal is rocking, with very high load factors and numerous sold-out flights, many at very high fares ($600+ o/w, $500+o/w) for last-minute seats. Shameful from a consumer perspective (go take ATA or Airtran for gosh's sakes), but good for DL.

That's great news. It would be nice to see this grow into a niche market for DL. Maybe one day they could even put Shuttle aircraft on the route and market Delta Shuttle as serving LGA, ORD, BOS, DCA.

Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
It does seem odd that they do this after announcing that JFK was going to be their "hub". If they are that cash short, move things to JFK and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.

These cities already have plenty of service to DL's JFK hub.


User currently offlineTIA From Albania, joined Mar 2006, 524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 19):
Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
It does seem odd that they do this after announcing that JFK was going to be their "hub". If they are that cash short, move things to JFK and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.

These cities already have plenty of service to DL's JFK hub.

Both LAX and LAS only have Song flights to JFK. And the point still remains, if you are trying to build up your hub at JFK, why add flights from LGA.


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3000 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
That all assumes they are going to allow fare rules crossing airports.

They almost always do. I fly out of one NY airport and back to the other quite often--although I have occasionally seen deep-discount fares that don't allow this, it's unusual. The fares for the new LGA-LAX nonstop don't seem to be available on Expedia yet, but if you look at NYC-SLC on DL, for example, the fares are interchangeable with any combination of JFK, EWR and LGA.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Also, what if you are a person who drives and parks at the airport? You can't make an open jaw/return then

Very true. However, no one in Manhattan does this--mainly because most of us don't even own cars, but also because it would rarely be worth it to pay for parking at the airport when taxis are so cheap (well, relatively) and plentiful.

I'm with Wjcandee on this one. Although I don't love LGA so much that I would take a connection one way just to get a nonstop to LGA the other way, all other things being equal I would certainly choose DL's LGA flight if I were traveling on a Saturday, and then just fly in/out of JFK if the other leg doesn't fall on a Saturday. Even forgetting the shorter cab ride and more user-friendly terminal at LGA, I'd save $20 in cab fare, which as they say is better than a stick in the eye.  Smile



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8342 times:

Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
Both LAX and LAS only have Song flights to JFK. And the point still remains, if you are trying to build up your hub at JFK, why add flights from LGA.

1) JFK-LAX/LAS will be served by Song for only 17 more days.

2) LGA is a very strong focus city for DL, despite their JFK hub.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8237 times:

Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
And the point still remains, if you are trying to build up your hub at JFK, why add flights from LGA.

As RWSea has pointed out, LGA is a focus city, and of high interest of DL. Hence why you see DL adding LGA-ORD/DFW and now LGA-LAX/LAS. Plus, while both markets are in the same MSA and have overlap, they actually serve different markets for DL, in that LGA is focused on O&D pax for DL, whereas JFK, while also serving O&D, is primarily of interest as a connection airport, between their Euro network on the one hand and their domestic and shorthaul int'l network on the other hand.

Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
move things to JFK

Or in other words, leave the relatively LCC-free airport and instead focus more on going head-to-head with B6, right?

Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.

So instead of having a total of 14 gates plus hardstands available, DL should operate all flights out of 6 gates plus way less hard stands, a total of some 120 daily flights? Yeah, that's gonna help the bottom line, providing you ever manage to pay off all the costs brought up by massive delays due to lack of gate space.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
How do you get your info in Germany? You seem to be one of our resident "Delta guys." Welcome to my RR.

Thanks for that Big grin . The internet is very helpful with this, particularly sites aside from a.net where people actually provide infos about an airline instead of always complaining about it  Wink .


User currently offlineTIA From Albania, joined Mar 2006, 524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8168 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 23):
As RWSea has pointed out, LGA is a focus city, and of high interest of DL. Hence why you see DL adding LGA-ORD/DFW and now LGA-LAX/LAS. Plus, while both markets are in the same MSA and have overlap, they actually serve different markets for DL, in that LGA is focused on O&D pax for DL, whereas JFK, while also serving O&D, is primarily of interest as a connection airport, between their Euro network on the one hand and their domestic and shorthaul int'l network on the other hand.

LGA-ORD/DFW is completely different from LGA-LAX/LAS. No one is questioning DL's daily business-heavy routes ex-LGA, but the point is that there is no advantage for people to choose that airport over JFK or EWR on a Saturday. Someone else mentioned US and their flights from LGA to the islands on Saturdays. First of all, until the merger, US had no presence at JFK whatsoever, so obviously all their flights had to be from LGA. Secondly, the holiday caribbean market can sustain Saturday-only flights, since many people go on vacation for a whole week, and since Saturday is known as timeshare day and flights to sunny destinations are usually packed then.


25 N1120A : Or you can just take public transport to JFK and EWR and save a bundle
26 Dutchjet : Guys - unless you have lived in NYC (I have) and know lots of New Yorkers, you're simply not gonna understand this one.....its all about LGA. People f
27 FoxBravo : This is where many New Yorkers disagree. Wjcandee and myself, for example, DO see an advantage to LGA over JFK or EWR on Saturday (or any other day o
28 Post contains images FoxBravo : First of all, you don't really save a bundle that way--in fact, if you're not traveling alone, it can be more. For EWR, first you need to get to Penn
29 HVNandrew : LGA is going to be a DL focus city forever - they're never going to combine the LGA ops with those at JFK, and for good reason. LGA has a huge market
30 JFKLGANYC : "And about the "perimeter rule", I believe it's set to expire in 2007. DL could be getting a head start in the LGA-LAS/LAX market with these Saturday
31 TIA : And you assume that I don't live in NY. Well, I do, when I am not in school. I am no fan of DL's JFK terminal, but it's not like LGA offers superb fa
32 FoxBravo : I did no such thing. Your profile even says you live in NY. Re-read my comment that was responding to you--all I said was that "many New Yorkers disa
33 WorldTraveler : you all are missing the competitive advantage of being able to say you have nonstop service to LAX and LAS from BOTH LGA and JFK. Unless AA or UA do t
34 Post contains images Wjcandee : Obviously, you've never experienced weekend construction on the Van Wyck. Those of you who don't understand why these Saturday-only flights beyond th
35 N844AA : FoxBravo covered it most ably above, but I wanted to back him up and offer another perspective on airport access. The rail links to JFK and EWR are we
36 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Well, theorethically, DL could operate saturday-only flights to DUB and SNN, as those have preclearance . Now, the economics of a once-weekly transat
37 MAH4546 : I am pretty sure they couldn't. Shannon (I don't know about Dublin) has customs pre-clearence, but not immigration pre-clearence. You still need to c
38 TWAL1011 : Actually, Dublin & Shannon both have U.S. immigration pre-clearance. No customs clearance is available until arrival in the USA.
39 Panamair : Chiming in as a New Yorker/Manhattanite, LGA-LAX is brilliant, even if it's a Saturday-only service. From mid-town East Side Manhattan, LGA is merely
40 Wjcandee : I should also mention something that shouldn't enter into it, but does. If you're coming (home) to New York, nothing says Noooo Yawk like an approach
41 Slcdeltarumd11 : I lived in New York for over 20 years. People who havn't spent alot of time in the NYC area dont realize that 10 miles further and over six dollar bri
42 N1120A : How does that explain LAX?
43 MaverickM11 : ...Which is one of the reasons I think this weekly LAS/LAX service will tank.
44 Dartland : As a native New Yorker who grew up in Westchester and lived in Manhattan -- I back Wjcandee and FoxBravo and the other New Yorkers who know that LGA-L
45 MaverickM11 : Speaking of which, TZ ran an average LF of 63% on LGA/SFO, on a Saturday when no one wants to fly anyway, on a transcon where the fares have been gre
46 ATA767 : Towards the end of this route the plane was closer to 80%+ full and these planes continued on to Hawaii so it made sense.
47 MaverickM11 : Even more reason to believe the lone weekly NYC/West Coast segment will not do well.
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