Kkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4667 times:
In 1989, four US Airlines served Hamburg.
Delta flew nonstop from Atlanta.
Pan Am flew nonstop from New York and also had IGS services to Berlin and a flight to London that connected to flights that went to LA/San Fran/Miami and Washington.
American flew via Dusseldorf to Chicago
TWA flew via Amsterdam to New York
After PA sold its Heathrow routes to UA, United served Hamburg for several years.
Today only Continental flies nonstop, from Newark.
Why has Hamburg lost so much service to the USA over the years?
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3662 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4660 times:
Probably a few factors. Several of those airlines have had bankruptcy problems since the 1980s and that often results in cutting of routes, especially with expensive widebody aircraft (example - NW parking its 747s recently).
I'd also say the emergence of FRA as a major, major international hub has drawn some traffic away from Hamburg.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3266 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4644 times:
HAM, like many small European markets, is very low-yielding. DL has started, stopped and then re-started service there twice. AA pulled out after about two years in the early 1990s, and UA pulled out after LH began codesharing with them in the mid-1990s.
Boeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2264 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4644 times:
Also, NW had 747 service HAM-Copenhagen-JFK.
I myself enjoyed flying Pan Am twice in the 80s, nonstop from JFK. Very convenient.
I would think it had a lot to do with the recession in the early 90s, when those aircraft became too uneconomical to operate, whereas the 757 (CO) is a good size for the market today.
I would think DL service to ATL would work again.
HAM was one of those secondary markets (after big hubs and bigger cities) that never recovered from the cutbacks in the early 90s. Also, the city, while important in business, never was much of a tourism draw that could at least fill up the back of the plane.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4631 times:
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 2): HAM, like many small European markets, is very low-yielding. DL has started, stopped and then re-started service there twice. AA pulled out after about two years in the early 1990s, and UA pulled out after LH began codesharing with them in the mid-1990s.
Good point.
Also consider that airlines reorganized their route systems around central hubs, thus LH focused on flying its transatlantic routes out of FRA and MUC and cities like HAM lost out. And, with the wonderful world of codeshares and alliances, many nonstop and direct services were dropped - KL/NW can get you to HAM via AMS, DL/AF can get you to Hamburg via CDG, UA/LH can get you to HAM via FRA, etc. etc.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22053 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4625 times:
Many things have changed in the last 20 years
West & East Germany were unified and the entire German aviation landscape looks different.
Lufthansa was a founding member of Star and has since heavily tilted German intercontinental traffic to center on Frankfurt and a lesser degree Munich.
Star's market and distribution strenght also has gone long way to making non Star airlines leery of gaining inroads into the German market.
The whole alliance relationships have also in many ways shifted traffic concentrations to key member hubs with AMS/CDG being primary for Skyteam in Europe and LHR being the leader for Oneworld.
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Kkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4581 times:
That's right. IIRC they had that route as well as some others to Scandanavia/Northern Europe including MIA-JFK-ARN, BOS-GLA, MIA-CPH, MSP-FBU, JFK-CPH-FBU, and BOS-DUB-SNN.
DTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1415 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4581 times:
My very first airline flight was to HAM on Northwest Orient in 1982. We left DTW on a 747, connected at JFK to another 747 and made a stop at CPH. I think NW pulled out of HAM a few years after that.
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3347 posts, RR: 30 Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4301 times:
I think the things said above are correct, but I would also guess that we might see more flights from smaller airports to the US in Germany soon. For example, CGN is served from May 11th, DUS will be served, Emirates flies HAM-JFK, TXL is served.
It can be noted, that these flights usually go to the hubs of the US airlines... CGN-EWR to the Continental hub is one example. So I would expect more direct flights in the future...
A319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
Another reason for HAM to be 'large' pre-reunification was that it was only one of 3 airports allowed to serve West-Berlin (with FRA and MUC). And this only by non-German airlines.
I would hazard a guess, that quite a few people flying to HAM from the US changed there and continued on to Berlin.
Kkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4247 times:
Quoting A319XFW (Reply 10): I would hazard a guess, that quite a few people flying to HAM from the US changed there and continued on to Berlin.
Good point. And PA as noted above flew several IGS flights daily to Berlin and I believe at one time or another TWA flew HAM-TXL several times daily as well.
DTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1415 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4156 times:
Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 11): I believe at one time or another TWA flew HAM-TXL several times daily as well.
That's correct. On my 1989 visit to HAM, I flew TWA. It was 727-31 service from AMS-HAM-TXL. Of all my 727 flights, this trip in and out of HAM were my only 727-100 series flights.
DETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 596 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4125 times:
In the days before open skies treaties became a reality international routes were prized and airlines were quicker to serve a route if they obtained the route authority for fear of losing it. I suspect that once a bilateral was signed by the United States and (West) Germany that many airlines took advantage of the oportunity to serve Hamburg. Also in the days before alliances airlines were more eager to serve a variety of destinations even if the flights included one or two stops.
CRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4123 times:
You guys could laugh at me for saying this but besides LH focusing on the FRA and MUC markets with Star and all; the German railroad also has a huge effect on it. I can fly to LH or train it to HAM plus, the city itself is a huge center for train from Europe both east and west. And the ICE is one of the world's most advanced train systems hence why it makes sense.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
Mats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 585 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3761 times:
In 1992 I flew on a Lufthansa A310-300 from Berlin/Tegel to Newark by way of Hamburg. There was a Delta 767-300ER next to us; it flew from Berlin, taking off at the same time from the gate next door and landed in Hamburg at the gate next store. The Delta flight continued to Atlanta.
Kkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3735 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 17): Wasn't that actually DL? I never heard someone mention UA in HAM until today. I only know of DL getting flights to HAM after PA sold their LHR routes
No, it was UA who got PA's LHR routes in 1991 before the rest of the Atlantic network was sold to Delta. United served HAM from LHR between 1991 and 1994.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 21): No, it was UA who got PA's LHR routes in 1991 before the rest of the Atlantic network was sold to Delta. United served HAM from LHR between 1991 and 1994.
Thanks. I knew UA got PA's LHR routes, but I was more referring to the timeframe. I should have phrased my question better.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7176 posts, RR: 45 Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3439 times:
I suggest to the people interested in this thread to also check out the thread about EK's coming third DXB-JFK flight, which flight will be route via HAM. Several posts in that thread discuss the importance of HAM as a trans-Atlantic O&D destination, the potential (or lack of it) for interesting margins, etcetera.
In my opinion, the hub & spoke system, coupled with the growth of multi-carrier alliances, has been largely responsible for less trans-Atlantic service to airports like HAM, LYS, DUS, TXL, etc. This approach to operations results in more and more passengers transitting through hubs like LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA, etcetera, and less service between non-hub European airports and United States cities.
25 Cory6188: Speaking of the fact that CO to EWR is the only service to the US at present, does anyone have any idea as to how it is doing? Is the route doing bett
26 Kkfla737: very good point. In fact through the years PA's HAM flight usually extended with a tag along to Nuremberg, Berlin or Dusseldorf, all cities that get
27 Humberside: Berlin: CO to EWR and DL to JFK (only in the past year or two though) DUS: Privitair for LH to EWR and ORD, plus some leisure orientated scheduled fl
28 DAL767400ER: Not to forget scheduled (daily?) service to JFK as well .
29 Delta777Jet: Lufthansa had a nonstop DC-10 service from HAM to MIA in the 80`s !!!! TWA served HAM via AMS (with 727) Delta first JFK nonstop (taken over from PA)
30 PanHAM: That is not correct, there where 3 air corridors, but more cities served, such as HAM (PA+BE) BRE (BE) HAJ /PA+BE, DUS (AF+BE) CGN (BE) FRA (PA + TW)
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