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IL-96 With PW2000s  
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

Whatever happened to the grand idea of fitting the IL96 with the PW2000?

I have searched the database for an example pic...to no avail. Wasn't there at least one produced in Aeroflot colours?

Is the suffix "T" or "M"? I have seen it both ways but thought it was technically "T".

What is the story?


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27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3623 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5416 times:

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...earch=RA-96101&distinct_entry=true

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

Quoting Stirling (Thread starter):
Whatever happened to the grand idea of fitting the IL96 with the PW2000?

It pretty much became a sales disaster. I recall SU was a launch customer for the type, but sales never took off. I believe there was also an issue with Russian carriers buying the IL-96-400 (aka IL-96M or IL-96T), as they were restricted on this and could only acquire them with Russian engines (correct me if I'm wrong).

Quoting Stirling (Thread starter):
Is the suffix "T" or "M"? I have seen it both ways but thought it was technically "T".

The T was for the freighter model which was proposed, while the M was for the PAX version of the IL-96-400.

I believe today that aircraft was re-engined back to either Kuznetsov or Soloviev engines (don't know which ones exactly) and is very likely in long term storage. Here's a shot of the IL-96M with the PW2000 at the 1994 Farnborough Airshow and one from a visit to AVV.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anthony Noble
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Morris Biondi



User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

Thanks for those pictures....Really, I put in many different combinations into the search field but nothing came back..

Did it being a disaster have anything to do with the import duty placed on the engines. What is it...40%?

So it was a sales disaster...did it at least provide any operational improvements?



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User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Well Air Zim announced they want to acquire some IL-96M'd (and Tu-204's) but I think they will be PS-90 powered.


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User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

A recent article in Flight International on Russian industry consolidation mentioned the the IL-98, a twin engine version of the IL-96, could become a reality if enough customers are found.

I assume the powerplants being certified for the 787, 748 and 350 are the most likely candidates for the IL-98.


User currently offlineTu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1197 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

Well, the IL-96 powered by PW2000's is a stretched (by 6m) version of the 96-300. It was known as the IL-96M (pax) or IL-96T (cargo). It fell through after some problems with sales and was finally killed off when PW was forced to pull out after some interference from Boeing.
Last year Illyushin finally re-launched the program as the IL-96-400, this aircraft would use the same fusulage as the 96M/96T but instead of PW's, it would have PS90A2 engines - an upgraded version of the PS90A engines used on the 96-300's with increased thrust to 18 tons (vs. the 16 tons of the PS90A) and other improvements in reliability, maintanence costs and some metals used in the core. The increase in thrust is achieved through a higher rotational speed of the engine. Some parts of the engine are built in the United States, Germany and Sweden. Fuel effeciency is supposed to increase by 1 to 3%, it will burn 40% less oil, be 1.5 to 2 times more reliable and be 35% cheaper to maintain ALL IL-96-400's that have been ordered (there were quite a few since MAKS 2005) will have PS90A2 engines - the PS90A will not be able to lift this aircraft at specified MTOW.
The first -400 airframes are already being assembled alongside the -300's at the VASO assembly plant in Voronezh.
Perm Motors have already produced a PS90A2 engine and are now finalising tests and modifications.
Any other questions?

[Edited 2006-04-28 16:35:38]


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

Any idea how far along Illyushin is in developing a new wing for the IL-98 and how long they expect for it to come to market? Do you know what powerplant they're looking at?

Thanks for all the info on the 96-400.


User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4692 times:

Would there be any plans to improve the cabin fixtures of the IL-96, as the images you see on here show that there doesnt seem to have been much of a change in the cabins from the IL-86.


British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4656 times:

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 6):

Thats some interesting news.

Cant wait to see them.

BTW, are there any posibilities that an operator can purchase western engines on the new IL96-400?

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4656 times:
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Quoting Tu204 (Reply 6):
nd was finally killed off when PW was forced to pull out after some interference from Boeing.

While I know Pratt pulled out, I'm certain it was economics, not Boeing. When I was at Pratt no one believed Boeing had any loyalty left to Pratt. Boeing be loyal to GE and thus be able to influence GE? sure. Pratt? No way. Pratt even then wasn't selling enough engines on Boeing to base decisions on B's whims.

Personally, the IL-96 needs a lot of work to sell well. Its simply not designed for fast turn times, low maintenance, or the electronic flight bags Western airlines desire to reduce pilot workload. While its a beautiful airframe and fairly aerodynamic... It now has to face the 787. I would have liked for the IL-96M sales to have gained momentum... But its too late now.  Sad

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 6):
but instead of PW's, it would have PS90A2 engines - an upgraded version of the PS90A engines used on the 96-300's with increased thrust to 18 tons (vs. the 16 tons of the PS90A) and other improvements in reliability, maintanence costs and some metals used in the core. The increase in thrust is achieved through a higher rotational speed of the engine. Some parts of the engine are built in the United States, Germany and Sweden. Fuel effeciency is supposed to increase by 1 to 3%, it will burn 40% less oil, be 1.5 to 2 times more reliable and be 35% cheaper to maintain ALL IL-96-400's that have been ordered (there were quite a few since MAKS 2005) will have PS90A2 engines - the PS90A will not be able to lift this aircraft at specified MTOW.

Ironically, Pratt was subcontracted to redesign much of the PS-90A2's turbine.  Wink They even get a *little* license fee for each turbine blade cast. (Not much though...)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

The RB211 powered TU204 did make it into service. Is it still available, and with the end of 747-400 production soon, might the final RB211s be on a Russian plane?


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 11):
The RB211 powered TU204 did make it into service. Is it still available, and with the end of 747-400 production soon, might the final RB211s be on a Russian plane?

One question. Does it have the 9000km range that they were boasting of?



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User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

I believe the new Tu-330 - a freighter - will be available with RB211s and PW2000s also...

http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=123


User currently offlineTu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1197 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 7):
Any idea how far along Illyushin is in developing a new wing for the IL-98 and how long they expect for it to come to market? Do you know what powerplant they're looking at?

Thanks for all the info on the 96-400.

I'm afraid that I have not heard much about it (the IL-98) but I am assuming they would modify the existing wing for 2 engines like A330/340 but I am just guessing here.
You are welcome.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 9):
BTW, are there any posibilities that an operator can purchase western engines on the new IL96-400?

If there is demand for it, Illyushin would take the steps to have western engines certified for the aircraft, but the first step is to sell it with PS90A2's/

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 11):
The RB211 powered TU204 did make it into service. Is it still available,

Yes, it is marketed and sold by Sirocco Aerospace, a company owned by an Egyptian billionaire. It is sold as the Sirocco Tu204-120XX (The XX = CE, C or regular pax version with no suffix) China is going to get theirs very soon and they are ordering more. All -120's are assembled at the Aviastar factory in Ulyanosvsk (Sirocco owns part of that plant)

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
One question. Does it have the 9000km range that they were boasting of?

Sure, but not at maximum capacity.
The Tu204-300 with PS90A engines can fly 9000km at capacity. Are you sure that you meant the -120 and not the -300?

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 10):

Thanks for the info  Smile A big factor as far as I know was that the Russian government was not too cooperative with PW. If I recall correctly, PW wanted to buy Perm Motors (or start some close relationship with them) and the government was against.
I agree with what you say about the IL96. This is why I like the 204 much more. It is capable of quick turns and the computer takes care of the flying.

Quoting CalAir (Reply 8):
Would there be any plans to improve the cabin fixtures of the IL-96, as the images you see on here show that there doesnt seem to have been much of a change in the cabins from the IL-86.

Do you mean the overhead storage bins over the central seats? Those can be put in at the operators request. How they want the interior is entirely up to the operator, if they want to shell out a couple more roubles, I am sure that VASO would be happy to install third party interiors if they meet the safety specs for certification. Just look at RA-96012 and RA-96016  Wink



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 14):
Do you mean the overhead storage bins over the central seats? Those can be put in at the operators request. How they want the interior is entirely up to the operator, if they want to shell out a couple more roubles, I am sure that VASO would be happy to install third party interiors if they meet the safety specs for certification. Just look at RA-96012 and RA-96016

No, I meant the cabin of the IL-96 looks old and antiquated in comparison to even the A300-600R let alone the A340-600.Just look at the images of the IL-86 and 96 cabins below.Spot the difference!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alex Kislitski
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Krzysztof Skowronski [epwa_spotters]




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User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4140 times:

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 14):
I agree with what you say about the IL96. This is why I like the 204 much more. It is capable of quick turns and the computer takes care of the flying.

I don´t quite understand what you mean ? IIRC the IL96 has a FBW system, too ?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineTu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1197 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3971 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 16):
I don´t quite understand what you mean ? IIRC the IL96 has a FBW system, too ?

Very similar to what the 767 has. It leaves the final decision up to the pilot. The 204 has one like on an airbus - it won't let you do anything stupid.

Quoting CalAir (Reply 15):
No, I meant the cabin of the IL-96 looks old and antiquated in comparison to even the A300-600R let alone the A340-600.Just look at the images of the IL-86 and 96 cabins below.Spot the difference!

I understand now, but as I said, the cabin interior is up to the operator to choose. And the main difference (that causes the "antiquated" look) is one minor detail - everything has sharp edges. All you have to do to give it a modern look is smooth (round) them out. Look - the overhead bins are boxy, so are the ceiling panels. Now try to remember a newer A320 - they are all rounder.  Smile



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

Id rather fly on an IL-96 than an A340.


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineAviationAddict From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3785 times:
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This is probably impossible to determine without actually building one, but could an IL-96 fitted with modern western engines, western avionics and various other upgrades be a viable alternative to Boeing and Airbus products for western airlines? I'm getting so sick of the A vs. B wars and I'd love to see another player on the center stage. What would it take (besides a crap load of money and probably new management) to get the Russian/Ukrainian companies up and running on a major scale?

User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 14):
Thanks for the info A big factor as far as I know was that the Russian government was not too cooperative with PW. If I recall correctly, PW wanted to buy Perm Motors (or start some close relationship with them) and the government was against.
I agree with what you say about the IL96. This is why I like the 204 much more. It is capable of quick turns and the computer takes care of the flying.

IIRC they wanted to buy 25% of Perm Motors, and start PW Rus.

Well I think carriers in developing/communist countries will be prime costumers for the IL-96 and Tu-204.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineYAK42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 801 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
Well I think carriers in developing/communist countries will be prime costumers for the IL-96 and Tu-204.

And Iranian carriers.


User currently offlineIslandHopperCO From Micronesia, joined Dec 2003, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Here's the Il-96-400 in 2005, looking rather shabby and with Russian engines. Really sad this idea never came to fruition.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fyodor Borisov


[Edited 2006-04-30 18:55:19]

User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 19):
What would it take (besides a crap load of money and probably new management) to get the Russian/Ukrainian companies up and running on a major scale?

A ton of orders !

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Reply 22):
Here's the Il-96-400 in 2005, looking rather shabby and with Russian engines. Really sad this idea never came to fruition.

What do I see ? Does this aircraft really have the IL86´s NK-86 engines ?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineTu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1197 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3467 times:

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Reply 22):
Here's the Il-96-400 in 2005, looking rather shabby and with Russian engines. Really sad this idea never came to fruition.



Quoting A342 (Reply 23):
What do I see ? Does this aircraft really have the IL86´s NK-86 engines ?

As I said, Perm Motors JUST NOW finished the PS90A2 engine. For MAKS 2005, since the -400 was standing engineless, they decided to hang some old NK's that were lying in the hangar. They aren't even connected and they are not compatiable with the airframe - they just stuck 3 pins to hang them on the pylon  Smile So, IslandHpperCO, don't worry, this idea is not dead, its the IL96M that died  Wink



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
25 A342 : Thank you for the explanation. Will this particular aircraft be fitted with the PS90A2 or another one ? When is the first one going to fly ? But the
26 Post contains images Superfly : Didn't Cubana just get the IL96M? Or is that a different version? I agree! So far, the only Soviet/Russian aircraft I've flown on is the IL-62. It wa
27 Post contains links and images LTU932 : No, they fly the IL-96-300, the "standard" model. View Large View MediumPhoto © Rui da Silva - Lisbon SpottersI don't even know if the IL-96M wa
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