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Routes That Just Didn't Work For LCCs  
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2693 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10461 times:

Anybody have a compilation of routes that didn't work for LCCs? From the likes of WN, B6, FL, etc. It's (IMO) interesting to see what they just couldn't make work.
I'll start off with B6.

ATL-LGB
ATL-OAK
IAD-SMF
JFK-SDQ

EDIT: European airlines like FR, U2, etc. as well!

[Edited 2006-04-16 21:29:09]

96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10428 times:

Insert all DH routes here:____


Anyway, I think FL dropped CUN-ATL, that could count as one. I don't know what happened to that.

B6jfk airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10428 times:

WN:

HOU-SAN (N/S)

B6:

EWR-TPA



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 999 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10411 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 1):
Anyway, I think FL dropped CUN-ATL, that could count as one. I don't know what happened to that.

Hurricane Wilma



The voice of moderation
User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10378 times:

FL:

ATL-GSO
ATL-TLH
ATL-TOL
ATL-TYS
MLI-LAS
PIT-LGA
PIT-PHL
PIT-MDW
TLH-TPA
TPA-MIA
and probably a few others that escape my memory.



72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10351 times:

SWA:

ISP-PVD
IND-LAX
BUR-RNO
BUR-MDW
SFO-SAN (really only due to ATC delays)
SFO -PHX (same)

some quick ones on the mind


User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10342 times:

Didn't spirit drop DTW-DEN? Is frontier in the same group of LCC's as SW and AirTran and Spirit. Their fares are equivolent to those by legacies on some routes.


LH 442
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10304 times:

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 6):
Didn't spirit drop DTW-DEN?

Spirit dropped FLL-DEN. They used to run a daily M80 on the route. A former manager of mine used to be NK's manager in DEN and now he's in jail on some big time charges. And he seemed like such a nice guy!


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6788 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10291 times:

Midwest..

RDU-MKE
RDU-MCI

Southwest...

RDU-SAN
RDU-MCI

Airtran/ValuJet...

RDU-MCO
RDU-BWI
RDU-IAD



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineAirlinebrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10269 times:

It seems like the transcon routes have been the most troublesome for LCC's. B6 is making it work most of the time (JFK but not as much with IAD) but I have noticed many others giving up after a try. The first two airlines that come to mind are ATA and America West.


I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1403 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10261 times:

SY: MSP-DTW circa early-2000's IIRC.

(talk about wrath-of-God type retaliation from the red tail...)



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10193 times:

Quoting JetBlueAUS (Reply 2):
WN:

HOU-SAN (N/S)

When did they pull that one? I would have thought it would be okay since CO operates out of IAH and WN out of HOU but I guess not. I rode that route via a stop in ELP to MCRD back in '97 - oh the memories and my how time has flown by!


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10142 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
RDU-SAN

Did WN ever operate RDU-SAN nonstop? I don't think this is the case--if anything, I remember it being a one-stop through AUS.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):

It was a Saturday-only service maybe a year or two ago. If it's any consolation, while it didn't get picked up daily by WN, CO has expanded their SAN-IAH schedule significantly since then.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10081 times:

City Bird:

BRU-MIA
BRU-JFK
BRU-MCO
BRU-OAK
BRU-MEX


User currently offlineFlyBaby From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10066 times:

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 4):
and probably a few others that escape my memory.

Yes, I think there was ATL-VPS too at some point.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6788 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 10045 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
RDU-SAN

Uhmmm.. RDU-SAT?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 10008 times:

Any route out of COS.

Any route out of FAT.

These must be the two largest cities in America without an LCC. Am I wrong? I'm just guessing.....



Delete this User
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9962 times:

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
ISP-PVD

Good lord. why would you fly that. It takes longer to and from the airport the the dammed flight! lol



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25689 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9946 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

[quote=Stirling,reply=16]Any route out of FAT. [/quote

FAT - Allegiant, Frontier, America West/US Airways.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 17):
Good lord. why would you fly that. It takes longer to and from the airport the the dammed flight! lol


Not if you live way out on the island....all roads lead through the city.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
FAT - Allegiant, Frontier, America West/US Airways.

I was expecting such a reply. Sure, the above mentioned airlines do fly into Fresno...they do on a very limited basis. (I'll admit I still forget about F9)

But a true, dyed in the wool LCC, with conveniently timed flights to the top destinations, is still sorely missing from Fresno.

For the most part Fresno is being treated as an after-thought by many airlines...but I have a feeling that is about to change.



Delete this User
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

HP to NGO....probably in the top 5 worst routes of all time  Smile

User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9889 times:

Ryanair cancelled MST-STN pretty fast.


Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25689 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9854 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
I was expecting such a reply.

Then why did you make the statement, which was:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
Any route out of FAT.

Sorry I bothered to reply. But you did ask.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
Am I wrong? I'm just guessing.....

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9792 times:

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 5):
SFO-SAN (really only due to ATC delays)

Are you sure ?? I thought WN left SFO because they didn't want to pay the airport fees. There are about 20 WN flights/day to SAN from OAK, SJC got 10 (plus about 15 more on AA and Alaska), and SAC's got 13. Would the ATC delays at SFO be bad enough to make that route not work??


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9762 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 1):
Anyway, I think FL dropped CUN-ATL, that could count as one. I don't know what happened to that.

They never even started the route. They still hold the traffic rights, it's just no start date has ever been established as a result of Wilma.

Quoting FlyBaby (Reply 14):

Yes, I think there was ATL-VPS too at some point.

They moved their flights to PNS because at the time, VPS was getting ready to undertake building a new terminal on the site of the terminal, and flights were to operate out of a temporary terminal that was nothing more than a tent.


FL: ATL-BDL. The loads were never that good on the route; what kept them on the route as long as they did was the mail revenue the route provided.


25 Dsuairptman : Air Tran transfered the VPS service to PNS. They appear to be doing better there than at VPS.
26 Atrude777 : out of STL.. WN dropped STL-IND, STL-MSY. Alex
27 WN57787 : yes about 2 1/2 yrs ago it was sat only service. never was full STL-MSY was dropoed to to Hurrcain Katrina another bad rout for WN is BDL-PHL both wa
28 Atrude777 : No it was not. it was dropped looooong time ago, before 1998. STL-IND was dropped right after 9/11. Alex
29 WN57787 : was just talking to a Girl that worked the MSY station for WN until Katrina. and she said that thay had STL n/s out of msy.. up until the Rebuilding.
30 N1120A : They were a low fare carrier, not a low cost carrier Well, they dropped SFO completely. MSY-STL and MSY-MCI were both strong routes up until Katrina
31 Nkops : NK.. a few off the top of my head DEN-FLL DEN-DTW OAK-DTW LGA-MLB everything in ISP and EWR and PHL (years back) BOS-ACY probably a few others back a
32 BigGSFO : It's my understanding that yes, WN did drop SFO due to the ATC delays. With their tight turnarounds, a delay in SFO would ripple thru the system quic
33 WN57787 : and WN starts service to PHL wht that ATC wow.. that is a mess for any Airline
34 Atrude777 : I need to see proof of that, MSY was opened as a started route for STL when Southwest initiated STL service. MSY was soon shortly dropped, long befor
35 AlitaliaMD11 : FL also dropped ATL-SWF a while ago.
36 WN57787 : She is telling me it is 3 NS a day. ill have to look it up in the Data Base.
37 Amciver : EZ LPL-LTN didn't last long. Shame becase the West Coast UK Mainline train service between London and Liverpool was a joke at the time.
38 Atrude777 : I would love to be proven wrong, but I just havent seen that anywhere. Or do you mean that right now?! Alex
39 PanAm330 : I'll add a bit more to the pool here. WN IAH-anywhere. Dropped to focus on HOU as their solitary Houston station. Didn't FL have BUF-MCO back in the d
40 WN57787 : CURRENT SERVICE: 13 daily nonstop departures to five cities: Dallas, Houston Hobby, Nashville, Orlando, and Tampa Bay. Additional direct or connecting
41 HPRamper : I'm surprised WN hasn't started up service back to PHX, since it's only a matter of time until US does.
42 WN57787 : MSY - PHX starts Jun 10th
43 Atrude777 : I can't read that format, so WN had STL-MSY because the months I looked up for 2004, and 2005 were April, May and June and July and none of them had
44 Eastbay : WN, TUS-OAK. Loved that one as a jumpseater, unfortunately didn't ever seem to quite fill up. FL ran FLL-DFW a while back but it's gone now- not sure
45 PanAm330 : I got it earlier; yes. OAK-BRU, not SFO.
46 Post contains links FATFlyer : There was an interesting fare comparison today out of BFL as part of an article about fares at Bakersfield. http://www.bakersfield.com/102/story/4641
47 N1120A : Keep getting mixed messages here from HP/US. Sometimes they say both LAS and PHX are coming soon, sometimes they say not for quite a while. WN is add
48 Aviationwiz : Which brings up the failed F9 service, MSP-LAX.
49 HPRamper : And those are one-way fares?
50 FCYTravis : They're still flying it 1x daily, but the stats I've seen show WN's OAK-PHL service to have pretty abysmal load factors. Which is a shame, because it
51 Tommy767 : Song's EWR routes to Florida.
52 A340Spotter : Pro Air's DET-PHL service was our worst one hands down. It was only flown to allow Chrysler employees the opportunity to fly on NW for cheaper fares t
53 Jbguller : unfortunately, and i hate to say this, pretty much any route by PacificBlue. They seem to be pulling out of a lot lately. Does anyone know how Jetstar
54 UPSMD11 : Before ValuJet was Air Tran they tried ATL - SDF and it just didn't work. DL dropped the fares there and they ran away crying. I would love to see the
55 TxAgKuwait : for WN: CRP-AUS LBB-HOU BPT-DAL
56 Fuffla : SYD-AVV is doing particularly well with 4 flights a day. AVV is becoming J*'s hub, with flights to ADL, SYD, MEL and PER. Brisbane and Adelaide both
57 BNinMSY : WN has not had MSY-STL nonstop service since at least 1999 - and I doubt they had it prior to '98. Either WN's press release is incorrect or someone a
58 Atrude777 : Thank you, WN inititiated STL-MSY when they opened STL as a new city in 1985. That I do recall reading, but it had to be dropped pretty soon or at le
59 Swissgabe : - FlyBaboo failed on the GVA-ZRH vv route as Swiss Intl was too strong there - EasyJet with ALL flights in and out of ZRH as they moved to BSL. Guess
60 JoeCattoli : FR : TRN-GRO (Turin-BarcelonaGerona) Very Low Loads Ciao Joe
61 SJCRRPAX : I was curious so I researched this and you are exactly correct. I also found out that the landing fees at SFO were $18/PAX and OAK and SJC around $3.
62 PCE7306 : Hooters: ABE-GYY ABE-LAS ABE-RFD ABE-MYR ABE-BWI ABE-PIE ABE-FLL
63 FATFlyer : Roundtrip fares, looked at on April 5 for flights on May 2, so 4 weeks in advance. PHX and SFO fares out of Fresno have long been an issue for travel
64 DptMAN : In the UK & Europe: WW- BmiBaby dropped EMA-DUB,EMA-MUC,CWL-MUC,EMA-PSA,MAN-BCN,MAN-CDG BD - Bmi dropped LHR-Naples,LHR-LIN (under tiny bmiBaby fares
65 DLCnxgptjax : FL: GPT-HOU GPT-DFW GPT-BNA GPT-MCO Athough they were all subsidized.
66 Skymileman : America West Express dropped: BIL-PHX and BIL-LAS in January.
67 GodBless : That would have been V-Bird.
68 Ssides : And it still blows my mind that WN doesn't fly DAL-CRP or DAL-HRL.
69 FAT5DEP : The following is what I priced a few weeks ago out of FAT and SMF for 1 person. I like to support FAT but my wife and I could save $320 flying out of
70 Doninfc : Atrude777 is correct. I don't know exactly when WN dropped STL-MSY, but it only lasted a few years during the mid/late '80s and was never reinstated
71 Jean Leloup : Westjet briefly flew to YSB, YAM, and YTH. I forget whether the flights were to YHM, or YYZ. But they're all gone now. I'm not including their brief e
72 TxAgKuwait : >>And it still blows my mind that WN doesn't fly DAL-CRP or DAL-HRL
73 HPRamper : Strange that BFL has lower fares than FAT. Isn't FAT a larger market? These routes were only dropped because the Mesa planes could be used more profi
74 FAT5DEP : A co-worker of mine who lives in Visalia is planning on flying out of BFL instead of FAT because of cheaper fares.
75 Post contains images FATFlyer : Yes but it seems BFL gets a benefit by being closer to BUR and LAX. Pricing seems to reflect the competition at BUR and LAX. BFL is only about a 90 m
76 Sky : U2: AMS-BCN AMS-NCE
77 Srbmod : They never operated any ATL-SWF flights. They flew MCO-SWF up until the Airways operation merged in with the Airlines side (the former Valujet), and
78 B757capt : How so you say ABE-PIE that was great run.
79 Flyingfool : Just a few from The Netherlands: Ryanair (FR) STN-GRQ STN-MST Easyjet (U2) BCN-AMS NCE-AMS GLA-AMS Basiqair RTM-NYO RTM-OSL RTM-CPH (moved to AMS) RTM
80 Post contains images Steeler83 : I didn't see any mention of B6 on here... ATL-JFK... if there was one then pardon me for not seeing it
81 Joffie : True Didn't DJ find it increasingly difficult to fill a 737 on such a short flight? SYD-CBR. QF also fly this route using a Dash-8 however i find it
82 Srbmod : Never happened. DL threw a few Song flights on the route in order to twart B6 from even considering the route. JetBlue not offering this service was
83 Steeler83 : Gocha. That was rather silly of them not to go through with ATL-JFK service with an A320. I am sure that an E190 would have sufficed but both are mar
84 Skymileman : Billings, MT just topped 100,000 residents and the surrounding area has about 63,000 people in it. With that many people, I am really surprised we ha
85 Travatl : There's lots of old ValuJet/AirTran routes still not mentioned: MEM-MCO (and I'm shocked this one never came back...) IAD-YUL IAD-JAX IAD-TPA IAD-PBI
86 USPIT10L : I don't remember PHL-MYR, but what about the whole PIT J7 station? Quick trivia question (I know the answers). What are the only cities WN has ever p
87 Post contains images Steeler83 : The only one I could think of is DEN, but they have returned as of late... Oh wait... Rhetorical sarcastic question
88 Fuffla : QF are able to fill 737's due to its loyalty base (FF program) and business contracts. Also, the 737's on the SYD-CBR route only fly a few times a da
89 USPIT10L : It's not rhetorical at all, DEN was just lucky enough to get service back. There are cities WN has pulled completely out of.
90 Stirling : Denver Beaumont/Pt Arthur San Francisco (Houston) IAH
91 Post contains images Steeler83 : Oh, my bad then I tried to find some of the airports that WN pulled out of and never went back to, but I could not find any... I am sure that they ar
92 Vegasplanes : SFO IAH DEN DET BPT Also WN stoped flying Detroit-IND, used to be DET-IND. Back in the late 80's. Same with DET-PHX, though that came back fairly rec
93 Vegasplanes : Forgot about National Airlines from LAS, to MIA, MDW, JFK, LAX, SFO, DFW. Used to love those $ 159 r/t LAS-MIA.
94 Travatl : J7 (ValuJet) only operated PITATL, and that was briefly for two months. AirTran came back a few years later with PITPHL, PITMDW, PITLGA which were al
95 USPIT10L : Thanks Travatl. I just didn't remember it. I know the whole history of airTran's time here. I was at C52, C54 the first day as a fan. I was BEGGING V
96 Eastbay : PanAm330, I'll take your word that it was Oakland-Brussels, as I can't find any confirmation that it was SFO on the web anywhere. However, I swear tha
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