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Is Star Alliance "arrogant" In Who They Choose?  
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2148 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8385 times:

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...t_story.jsp?id=news/aw041706p3.xml

According to the article above, Star is close to signing a new member from China. It sounds like Star is saying, " it would be an honnor for any carrier to join them"? Air China, over the past year, has been getting closer to Cathay, a One World member. They, Star, have just signed on Shanghai Airlines as their new member. Right now, Beijing and Shangahi are the main ports of entry into China and can connect with Shangahi Airlines for Intra-Country flights. I believe the majority of Star Air carriers serves one of these cities respectively. So, Does Star really need Air China and does Air China need Star?


John@SFO
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8326 times:

I guess they have every right to be choosy.

It's a great alliance, member airlines from every continent/region.

Or they can go "Sky Team" with the combination of...

The French's love of work stopages (AF),
The financial insecurity of Alitalia, Delta, and Northwest,
the customer service skills of Aeroflot, etc.

Well at least they have CO, KL, and OK.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineSuperhub From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8168 times:

It works both ways. An alliance will choose an airline if that airline adds value to an alliance. The airline will choose that alliance if it adds value to the airline.

If the alliance chooses the airline and the airline chooses that alliance, Bingo, the alliance has a new member.

This happens not just in Star, but also OneWorld and Skyteam.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 884 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8159 times:

With regard to Shanghai Airlines, expect an announcement on May 10.

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4867 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

Star does tend to go for the more reputable/established/premier/top tier airlines eg SQ,NZ,LH,OZ,AC,UA,TG,SA
SQ, TG compete directly with MH in particular
LH, OZ, SA compete with AF and the various other european/african airlines.
AC,UA compete with AS, NW, DL, etc etc
NZ competes with QF



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineMutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7928 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 4):
Star does tend to go for the more reputable/established/premier/top tier airlines

DOnt think I agree with that at all! WHilst not into bashing *A or any other alliance, none of them have created a perfect fit. The way I look at it, if there were no alliances and i was planning a RTW with carriers I trust/admire/route network/would like to fly, i would pick my route around CX/SQ/BA/EK/UA. This covers all alliances (or with EK no alliance at all) but would never IMHO have been allowed due to stiffling competition on key routes

ALliances add network so that any point to any point with mileage earning opportunity is supposed to switch us away from some preference to an alliance based purchase, and it works. BUt there is NO consistency of product, to my mind the most important factor.

My only negative about *A is ironically its size. There are so many members that it is almost a case of "if non OW or ST then you will be on a *A carrier". Feels more like Holiday Inn than Four Seasons?


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4867 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7888 times:

Quoting Mutu (Reply 5):
My only negative about *A is ironically its size. There are so many members that it is almost a case of "if non OW or ST then you will be on a *A carrier". Feels more like Holiday Inn than Four Seasons?

More like if you aren't *A or OW then you either go ST or you are out in the wilderness. *A for the most part only selects one carrier in each country/region... or has one big carrier and one smaller carrier eg UA with US, LH with Swiss and Austrian.
The only places *A doesn't really serve is central america, northern africa, and North Asia( Russia, China, Mongolia etc). With the exception of China (and thats still a developing market) these places aren't exactly large aviation markets, high demand, or high yielding.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineAKLDELNonstop From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7852 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 6):
The only places *A doesn't really serve is central america, northern africa, and North Asia( Russia, China, Mongolia etc). With the exception of China (and thats still a developing market) these places aren't exactly large aviation markets, high demand, or high yielding

Mate you forgot India. With currently 60mn odd passengers annually and a potential market of 400mn passegers, I urge you to find a bigger market.

Also can anyone enlighten me as to why NZ has so few flights to Asia barring Japan, as its obviously a huge market currently being milked by TG, SQ, EK and MH

Cheers


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4867 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7770 times:

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 7):
Mate you forgot India. With currently 60mn odd passengers annually and a potential market of 400mn passegers, I urge you to find a bigger market.

Also can anyone enlighten me as to why NZ has so few flights to Asia barring Japan, as its obviously a huge market currently being milked by TG, SQ, EK and MH

Yes and middle east also. SQ and TG serve India quite well but obviously not domestically.

NZ is looking at direct flights to India either with 772LR or 787 so probably around 2009 for those. As for the rest of Asia, NZ owns the NZL-Japan market. NZL is too small a country and too small a population to support services to all asian cities which is why they get airlines like SQ to do it for them. AKL-PVG soon. Possible AKL-ICN in the future as OZ pulled out and its only the Pepsiplane (KE) flying it at the moment. Increase in capacity to HKG later in the year 763ER -> 744. AKL-SIN has already gone from 763ER -> 772ER. NZ used to fly to BKK but TG now does it. Indonesia isn't considered a valuble market except Bali which was before the bombings and the drug issues, now anyone who is of Caucasian descent is reluctant to go there, those that do are rather foolish in my opinion and in the view of many governments. AKL-TPE wasn't profitable with 763ER and def not big enough market for 772ER, maybe with 787 NZ might fly there again.. EVA flies with with A330s now. If MH pulls out of AKL then I'd give it better than 50% odds of NZ flying to KUL at least 3times a week with 772ER.

The main thing for New Zealand in general is that after years and years of double digit growth in tourism numbers it has come to the stage where New Zealand doesn't really want more growth in numbers, but wants growth in quality instead, ie more $ per visitor rather than more visitors. This of course affects how NZ does its network planning which is why there is more focus on the US and Europe currently as generally there is more $ per visitor from those areas than from China, India etc etc but yes those two are still both markets NZ is keen on, China for Business and sheer volume. India for the fact it has a very large middle class (highest number of millionaires I understand...) and because there is a large Indian community in New Zealand.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7731 times:

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 1):
The financial insecurity of Alitalia, Delta, and Northwest,

To be fair, *A has US and UA, who were in pretty big trouble just a few years ago.

It does seem true though that *A is a bit more "choosy", which is their right. It helps them maintain a better product.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineYAK42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 801 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

Does anyone think OW and ST should do the *A thing with logojets. I think this gives them an edge for publicity.

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7435 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 6):
The only places *A doesn't really serve is central america, northern africa, and North Asia( Russia, China, Mongolia etc). With the exception of China (and thats still a developing market) these places aren't exactly large aviation markets, high demand, or high yielding.



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):
Yes and middle east also. SQ and TG serve India quite well but obviously not domestically.

There have been rumors that TACA (Central America), SibirAir (Russia/Central Asia), Air-India (India), and Qatar Airways (Middle East) may join Star soon. I'm suprised Air China hasn't yet joined Star, they've been preparing for it allegedly for about two years now, since Asiana joined in 2003. I do love the coverage, but I like how LH handles it best. They codeshare with everybody. As a result, I feel (opinion) LH has the best airline network of any in the world.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineLAX2IADandORD From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7010 times:

Once upon a time, Mexicana was a Star Alliance member, which was great for connections to Mexico, which *A currently lacks. Of course there are the various flights (sparse) that UA offers from Chicago and a scant few from LAX but nothing with the regularity of MX or AM, which is in Sky Team.

These days, AM is far superior that MX in terms of in flight service and route network, but I can remember distinctly being at MTY boarding a MX flight right around the time they must have left (or been removed from) *A a few years ago as they were removing *A signage and telling passengers that *A Gold meant nothing to MX anymore when trying to preboard.

What happened? As a UA 1K member I would love AM to join *A, but as a founding member of SkyTeam there is no chance of that I know.......


User currently offlineIbhayi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

They choose SAA so no their not arrogant.

User currently offlineCY319 From Cyprus, joined Apr 2006, 396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6726 times:

they are very selective indeed but i recognize that they have the best network coverage among all alliances.

i should also mention that they are the most expensive alliance in terms of fares.



wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
User currently offlineAKLDELNonstop From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5840 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):
NZ is looking at direct flights to India either with 772LR or 787 so probably around 2009 for those.

Thanks for the info. Thats good to know. Will be very good for NZ if they can time their flights with LH. Then for the first time passengers from Europe will be able to transit to Pacific through India on any alliance.

Also shouldnt NZ be looking at increasing numbers as well along with $, otherwise how else do you get people to come here. It is not a transit point by any stretch of imagination, other than Aus-US traffic. So they do need more tourists.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):
This of course affects how NZ does its network planning which is why there is more focus on the US and Europe currently

Where does it fly to in Europe other than LHR?

Cheers


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5093 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5312 times:

I think that Star is getting way too big!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineSkymileman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 1):
I guess they have every right to be choosy.

It's a great alliance, member airlines from every continent/region.

Or they can go "Sky Team" with the combination of...

The French's love of work stopages (AF),
The financial insecurity of Alitalia, Delta, and Northwest,
the customer service skills of Aeroflot, etc.

Well at least they have CO, KL, and OK.

I must argue this one. I have never gotten good service on ANY Star Alliance Member. However, I have found every Skyteam carrier I have traveled on (except NW) to be incredibly good and have outstanding service (again excluding awful NW).


User currently offlineIL96M From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

Quoting Legacyins (Thread starter):
Shangahi Airlines

Are you sure it isn't China Eastern (Zhongguo Dongfang Hangkong) which is based in Shanghai?

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 11):
TACA (Central America), SibirAir (Russia/Central Asia),

What??? Are you on pills


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4867 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

Quoting Ibhayi (Reply 13):
They choose SAA so no their not arrogant

SAA is the premier airline in Africa.

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 15):
Also shouldnt NZ be looking at increasing numbers as well along with $, otherwise how else do you get people to come here. It is not a transit point by any stretch of imagination, other than Aus-US traffic. So they do need more tourists.

Until infrastructure improves, there are tourist spots which are already overloaded at times. NZ is looking at increasing numbers, New Zealand as a country is more interested in improving the value of the tourists that come here.

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 15):
Where does it fly to in Europe other than LHR?

LHR only, they used to fly to FRA but did a codeshare with LH insted to focus on LHR. There is a decent feed from Europe into LHR however. Tourist numbers to New Zealand from Germany have been on a steady decline for years.. It seems that German tourists prefer places like Thailand and the Mediteranian..



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineJfr From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4886 times:

Quoting Mutu (Reply 5):
The way I look at it, if there were no alliances and i was planning a RTW with carriers I trust/admire/route network/would like to fly......

I do this very thing six to eight times a year, and find that there is no viable alternative to Star for a RTW itinerary. I do find the US carriers to be problematic, with service levels way below the others, but being able to make changes enroute and getting all my miles on one carrier is fantastic.

Also, my SQ Solitaire card does wonders with every Star airline, something a non-alliance itinerary couldn't provide.

Years ago, there were similar deals, but they were so choice limited as to be useless.

To my mind, this is one of the very best advantages of the alliances, and Star is the best at it.

They are right.......they've earned the right to pick and choose! (That being said, they do seem to be "choosing" lots of airlines.)


User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

Any alliance that took, and keeps, USair can't be that arrogant!

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

Quoting LAX2IADandORD (Reply 12):
Once upon a time, Mexicana was a Star Alliance member, which was great for connections to Mexico, which *A currently lacks. Of course there are the various flights (sparse) that UA offers from Chicago and a scant few from LAX but nothing with the regularity of MX or AM, which is in Sky Team.

These days, AM is far superior that MX in terms of in flight service and route network, but I can remember distinctly being at MTY boarding a MX flight right around the time they must have left (or been removed from) *A a few years ago as they were removing *A signage and telling passengers that *A Gold meant nothing to MX anymore when trying to preboard.

What happened? As a UA 1K member I would love AM to join *A, but as a founding member of SkyTeam there is no chance of that I know.......

MX withdrew of Star Alliance in September 2003 to pursue a close tie-up with AA. UA/AC/LH were the only airlines using extensive codeshare service within the MX network and MX wasn't very keen on building new relationships with other existing members, or expanding service to existing Star hubs IIRC.

Quoting IL96M (Reply 18):

I heard them from posts on here and also speculation from various airline trade magazines. Also, TA discontinued their codeshare and marketing partnerships with AA not too long ago. MX is now AA's chief partner in Central America.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1740 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 1):
I guess they have every right to be choosy.

It's a great alliance, member airlines from every continent/region.

Or they can go "Sky Team" with the combination of...

The French's love of work stopages (AF),
The financial insecurity of Alitalia, Delta, and Northwest,
the customer service skills of Aeroflot, etc.

Umm...Are you kidding?

- United has not exactly been the pinnacle of financial health these past few years.
- USAirways has been through two bankruptcies
- Air Canada was recently hemoraging money
- VARIG has been on life support for God knows how long
- Air New Zealand was forced to accept government intervention to stay afloat
and lastly
- Ansett Australia, how can we forget that the pride of Australia disappeared off the radar screens in 2001?

So, I ask you , what makes Star invincible? Every alliance has their issues and Star is no exception. At the moment, Skyteam is the one with the limping dogs, however Star is not immune from this "illness." So please let's back up our opinions with facts.

There was a time when I was a Star Elite. As I am currently Elite with Skyteam and oneworld, I can honestly say I am still traveling the globe in style without flying a Star Alliance carrier.

SR 103


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4524 times:

Personally, I just avoid carriers that I think are bad.........so I have three FFPs: oneworld (AsiaMiles), *A (KrisFlyer) and ST (OnePass).

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 1):
It's a great alliance, member airlines from every continent/region.

For regions, they're missing the Middle East, India, Russia, North Africa, and Central America. And unless pigs fly and G-d makes a miracle, VG will go kaput and now you have almost no Latin American Network.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 1):
The French's love of work stopages (AF),
The financial insecurity of Alitalia, Delta, and Northwest,
the customer service skills of Aeroflot, etc.



Quoting SR 103 (Reply 23):
- United has not exactly been the pinnacle of financial health these past few years.
- USAirways has been through two bankruptcies
- Air Canada was recently hemoraging money
- VARIG has been on life support for God knows how long
- Air New Zealand was forced to accept government intervention to stay afloat
and lastly
- Ansett Australia, how can we forget that the pride of Australia disappeared off the radar screens in 2001?

Add:
-the wonderful past financial health of BD
-the basically emergency buyout of LX by LH
-the poor health of SK



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
25 Zkpilot : AA has been in Chpt 11 recently, QF receives government protection, JL is losing money badly not forgetting other airlines like AZ, DL, NW. No allianc
26 Kiwiandrew : sorry but it hasn't - although it did teeter on the brink of Ch 11 for a while it has managed to avoid it ( so far )
27 B777A340Fan : I don't think there's anything wrong with that. In order to be the best, you have to play/be with best. Simple life theory. I agree, whoever can add
28 Carmenlu15 : ... and at the same time started codesharing with UA, thus making the way for a possible *A membership (or so it seems). Indeed, rumors have been afl
29 CHI787ORD : For star, either AI or 9W. I'd personally go with AI, it's long established, has a nice route network and will be merging with domestic carrier IC so
30 Abrelosojos : = INDIA? Are you serious? Star is the best linked alliance to India - you forget the amount of frequencies + destinations of TG, SQ and LH ... with a
31 Ibhayi : That's because there is no other. SAA racially discriminate on employment selection, blacks are chosen above whites, coloureds and Indians. They havn
32 CXA330300 : Most people do not want to go on a BOM-BKK-CCU itinerary.
33 Zkpilot : Doesn't that describe most African airlines? Hence why it isn't hard for SAA to be the best one? Having said that, most people still seem to rave abo
34 CHI787ORD : Exactly. Star Alliance provides NO domestic coverage of India, which is the sector of the market which is really booming right now.
35 CXA330300 : Well its just an attempt to redistribute the power after the crimes of the apartheid era.......I, personally, think its perfectly legitimate. As for
36 Captaink : That is a silly statement. Anyhow I don't think it has anything to do with arrogance. An airline with a route network that would serve as an asset to
37 Abrelosojos : = I never said anything to the contrary. All I am saying is that STAR has the best coverage of India. Of course, all 3 would need an Indian partner t
38 SA7700 : Profit yes, but for how long? Forgive my language, but passengers and SA staff are steadily getting royally pissed off by CEO Khaya Ngqula, as well a
39 PSA727 : There are plenty of Star Alliance carriers which fly to those regions. Which is basically what you have right now with Sky Team. Except for smaller c
40 CXA330300 : Sorry-didn't know about the loans...........wait.......SIX BILLION? But within them? Slim to none. Most are not going to go on a BOM-BKK-CCU or MOW-W
41 PSA727 : The fact that United and TACA have just signed a code-share agreement, and when TACA broke off its ties with American, they expressed interest in joi
42 SA7700 : R6.1 billion to be exact. Rgds SA7700
43 Post contains images Kiwiandrew : how much is ZAR 6.1 billion ? about USD 0.99 ?   sorry , I realised that I was mixing you up with your neighbour - I am sure that if I was talking Z
44 Post contains images SA7700 : At today's exchange rate ZAR 6 billion would be just a bit more than USD 1 billion. 1 Zimbabwe Dollar = 0.00001014 USD. You do the maths (I still hav
45 Nimish : If I remember right, a post on A.net last year indicated that Skyteam had slightly more flights to India than *A. That may have changed now that *A h
46 MGA : What in the world are you talking about? Copa is an associate member of Sky Team... MGA
47 Abrelosojos : = I think the post is pointing out that with COPA as part of SKYTEAM, the hypothetical itinerary of ACA-MEX-(SJO)-GRU would be easier than STAR alter
48 MGA : Would be ACA-MEX-PTY-GRU (SJO is TA´s hub...) Got the idea though... thanx. MGA
49 Abrelosojos : = Oops - thats what I meant! Cheers, A.
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