Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17176 times:
An interim Airbus narrowbody, A320EP "Enhanced Performance" to meet airline demand for lower fuel costs and more range and capacity. Many airline just can´t wait for 7 to 10 years for a brand new design. IES Q2 2008.
The aircraft is stretched 3.5m compared to the A320, 3.5m short of the A321. New elliptical winglets are fitted, the fuselage stretch provides airlines room to fit an additional 4 seatrows or 24 seats at 34 inch seat pitch compared to the A320.
Cockpit
The cockpit incorporates evolutionary improvements in the latest A320 series. More drastic improvements are avoided to retain 100% commonality with the large worldwide A320 fleet, pilots and support networks.
Engines
The EP´s engines are CFM56-9´s, an evolutionairy development of the CFM56-5 and -7 versions. Most significant difference is the 10% larger fan cross section, resulting in a 20% higher by-pass ratio. The fan has a 3-D woven composite fan and a reduced number of blades. Other enhancements are the new light fan case and twin annular pre-swirl combustor intended to lower NOx emissions. Results are a 12% lower fuel and 20% lower maintenance costs.
Cabin enhancements
Most significant improvement in the cabin is the use of natural light. 6 Rooftop windows provide natural light and a view on the blue sky for all. The roof window can be filtered, dimmed or shut completely by the crew. New luggage bins offer 15% more space and form a naturally integrated part of the cabin. New side panels give passengers a few extra inches of cabin width.
Backgrounds
The A320EP (Enhanced Performance) is developed to meet increased market demand for addition range and seats. The A320EP is a stretched, re-engined A320 incorporating many improvements developed over the last decennium. Investments in the design are estimated at E1.2 billion.
A319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17146 times:
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): Folks, all completely made up, any kind of relation with reality is purely coincidental
It must be getting late in Holland and you're starting to hallucinate or are really bored...!
I would disprove your claims, but it's getting a bit late and I'm off to bed!
I don't understand the point of the stretch? Won't airlines want to keep the current amount of seats in their A320s? Everything else sounds great and these improvements will clearly put it beyond the 737 unless Boeing has some magic up its sleeve (doubt it though the 737 has pretty much seen all the improvement possible). Does Airbus have an official press release yet or is this something that has been leaked?
Azza40 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1052 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16880 times:
hehe, i should post things like this on a.net, im on modified airliner photos all the time. i see a great mod, like henry lams A320EP, and a week later (not a week on this one, bout 3 days) it is one here!
Azza40 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1052 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16830 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9): Why invest such a large sum in an aircraft that is selling at record volumes and would likely be replaced in its entirety within just a few years?
On the subject of elliptical winglets, I read a couple of years ago in the AM in-flight magazine that Boeing was considering a new type of device to place on the wingtips to maximize aerodynamics in future models. The illustration on the magazine showed a spiral kind of device in lieu of blended winglets or wingtip fences. AM's magazine also mentioned that several airlines around the world, including AM, were collaborating with Boeing in the research of this and other types of aerodynamic enhancers. Has anyone heard anything about this recently?
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10649 posts, RR: 100 Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16184 times:
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): Engines
The EP´s engines are CFM56-9´s, an evolutionairy development of the CFM56-5 and -7 versions. Most significant difference is the 10% larger fan cross section, resulting in a 20% higher by-pass ratio. The fan has a 3-D woven composite fan and a reduced number of blades. Other enhancements are the new light fan case and twin annular pre-swirl combustor intended to lower NOx emissions. Results are a 12% lower fuel and 20% lower maintenance costs.
Keesje,
First, the idea of a much lower fuel burn quick release A320 has its merits. (Man, I'm agreeing with you... I knew I shouldn't have had that 6th cup of coffee...) However, I will point out a fan diameter change while required for fuel economy isn't trivial. Although if such a larger fan could fit with the A320 current landing gear (only if the stretch allowed moving the engine forward and up: a center of gravity/wing aerodynamics consideration) then IAE would also put on a larger fan. Trust me, that group isn't behind GE in fan tech.
Don't forget in (IIRC) 2008 the IAE V2500 gets a fuel burn reduction.
current V2527 TSFC=.575
CFM-56-5b (most fuel efficient CFM-56)=.596
Now, 12% would be HUGE! TSFC < 0.500 in a single isle.
Sorry, but a fan change alone won't do it. (More like 3% drop in fuel burn.)
Add contra rotation (but that wouldn't be a CFM-56...) drop another 3 to 4%
New High spool with a 2nd high turbine, drop fuel burn another 4%
Optimize the low spool... another 2%. So 12% is doable. But only by throwing in all the new technology. Ok... a GTF could drop fuel burn even more. Damn it Pratt or IAE, launch it!
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4175 posts, RR: 30 Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16065 times:
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): 6 Rooftop windows provide natural light and a view on the blue sky for all
In addition to some of the other drawbacks pointed out by others, wouldn't these six large windows add a lot of weight? Not to mention the fact that you're going to lose a lot of insulative properties as well. And all for some additional lighting? Seems to me some of the newer LED bulbs placed in the cabin ceiling would be more efficient and practical.
Charvett From Venezuela, joined May 2001, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16021 times:
Some of this thread was discussed long ago. I posted and still stick
to Airbus Industrie for this: A-321 fuselage, beefed and straightened
wings with a 5ft tip extension, four engines (IAE variations). What do you
think?
Antoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1503 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15960 times:
NorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2383 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14828 times:
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): The aircraft is stretched 3.5m compared to the A320, 3.5m short of the A321. New elliptical winglets are fitted, the fuselage stretch provides airlines room to fit an additional 4 seatrows or 24 seats at 34 inch seat pitch compared to the A320.
Didn't B6 want a stretched A320? Something like an A320.5? Hypothetically speaking would 3.5m be enough to satisfy their need?
LawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 968 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14516 times:
Quoting A319XFW (Reply 1): I would disprove your claims, but it's getting a bit late and I'm off to bed!
Nice little hit-and-run statement.
Well, make sure you get plenty of rest and are nice and sharp in the morning, because I for one would love to see how you "disprove" a fictional enhancement anyway.
Some of the points brought up in the A320 Enhanced are actually rather intriguing...
A319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13597 times:
Right, have had some sleep, so here goes
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): The aircraft is stretched 3.5m compared to the A320, 3.5m short of the A321
Why stretch when there are already 4 versions of different fuselage length.
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): Most significant difference is the 10% larger fan cross section,
As Lightsaber already said - a 10% increase in fan diametre will not only affect the fan, but might also affect the landing gear. Assuming this, you'd need a certain clearance from the ground. This would mean you might need a longer landing gear. There are a few problems with this.
The space needed to put it in isn't there, so you'd need a shortening mechanism, which is a big no-no as it increases complexity.
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): 6 Rooftop windows provide natural light and a view on the blue sky for all.
As already said above, windows increase stress concentration. You'd also have to re-new the tooling for the panels. And re-route the wiring that goes up there.
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter): The A320EP is a stretched, re-engined A320 incorporating many improvements developed over the last decennium. Investments in the design are estimated at E1.2 billion.
And here you say why it's just made-up and won't be done. Also resource (read engineers) to do such modifications (especially on the L/G) aren't there.
All nice ideas, but at the moment not do-able. And why change a well-selling product, when a new one is somewhere in the near future.
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15 Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13202 times:
Quoting Mham001 (Reply 7): If they could get 12% better fuel burn just from the engines, we'd see a brand new 737 in no time.
Those would be some impressive engines. Goodluck doing it just with a fan. We'll be seeing a new 737 in no time anyhow the way it sounds.
Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 14): Cute joke. All I can say about the image is DAMN those winglets are big!
Still... might be a good idea for Airbus to consider...
No kidding. He should go to Toulouse and help them out.
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 15): Add contra rotation (but that wouldn't be a CFM-56...) drop another 3 to 4%
New High spool with a 2nd high turbine, drop fuel burn another 4%
Optimize the low spool... another 2%. So 12% is doable. But only by throwing in all the new technology. Ok... a GTF could drop fuel burn even more. spin Damn it Pratt or IAE, launch it! hissyfit
I hope IAE (which includes Pratt) will come up with a competitive engine for the next generation A320. My guess is CFM will cook up a bleedless, counter-rotating all new cored engine for the Y3, which could likely be made bleed for A320 (airbus prefer bleed systems, apparently), IAE seems to have a better relationship with Airbus than with Boeing, who is very loyal to CFM.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 15): Ok... a GTF could drop fuel burn even more.
You Pratt guys sure have a long breath On Pratt fan technology, they did the GP7200.
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 15): The attention this gets only points out that at $70+/bbl oil, something needs to change!
Right on. Circumstances have changed, business cases too.
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 16): wouldn't these six large windows add a lot of weight?
The aircraft has more then 80 windows. Recently I had a complete cut out 747 window set in my hands. 35 yrs old design; amazingly light! Composites are able to make them even lighter, the rules have changed.
Quoting A319XFW (Reply 22): Why stretch when there are already 4 versions of different fuselage length.
I guess DC9 & 737 showed the way. It fills a big gab & provides natural growth & network flexibility.
Quoting A319XFW (Reply 22): This would mean you might need a longer landing gear.
Wing pylon needs modification anyway (moving cg, light fan/casing). Ground clearance is tight but not as tight as e.g. with the 737NG.
[Edited 2006-04-18 22:52:33]
25 RedFlyer: Yes, but those 80 windows are relatively small. Put in big windows and the weight increases substantially. Why do you think an airplane is built with
26 A319XFW: I don't think they'll want to do that after they just did it.
27 Keesje: Pressure from the market is rising on both Boeing and Airbus to come up with improvements on thier established B737 / A320 lines. They put it on at Pr
28 Lightsaber: FYI, "Shape" usually involves a new casting. While new pressure vessel castings have already occured on the CFM-56... its an expensive step to take.
29 A319XFW: Like Lightsaber says, it depends on what you mean by "an upgrade". There are always upgrades being done on the aircraft. Some you'll notice (e.g. win
30 FlyDreamliner: Seems to me while Pratt has been seeking a miracle with GTF, GE, and now RR have been working on revolutionary new fan designs (like that used in GE9
31 Keesje: The 12% lower fuel burn estimate I mentioned was supposed to be for the complete aircraft at a per seat basis. I put it in the wrong place & saw it t
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Damn it Pratt or IAE, launch it! 
From Venezuela, joined May 2001, 82 posts, 
On Pratt fan technology, they did the GP7200.
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