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Air Tran And The 787 Dreamliner  
User currently offlineVulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 520 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12531 times:

Have heard from a very reliable source that FL is actually looking to add the 787 in their fleet within the few years for service to London. This info comes from someone inside the company. It would be really cool to see a 787 in FL livery! Hope it happens.

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12273 times:

Actually its not the 787 but 737RS. They have been in talks with Boeing as well as other companies about the airplane. Supposedly the 737RS will have the same technology as the 787. Joe would like to replace the whole fleet with 737RS IF its meets what ever Boeing is advertising. This is a long way off so I wouldn't read into to much.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12134 times:

The 787 option makes the most sense to me if they plan on crossing the pond.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12107 times:

*cough* nevergonnahappen *cough*.....

- Travis


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12052 times:

Given that FL has recently been pretty conservative about growing, and that they don't even change 73G orders to 738s or 739s to get additional capacity, I'd guess introducing a new fleet type and starting longhaul flights is not something that FL is actively pursuing  Wink .

User currently offlineFlying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 435 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11855 times:

I don't see this happening either. Air Tran knows that their current business model is a winner, and it would be a mistake to change it that drastically.

flying_727


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11815 times:

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 1):
Actually its not the 787 but 737RS

What is the RS stand for? What are some of the other differences of this version compared to the 737NG?
Thanks


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11785 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 6):
What is the RS stand for? What are some of the other differences of this version compared to the 737NG?
Thanks

Replacement Study - it is a totally new aircraft and supposedly a shrunken 787



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11759 times:

That jet is probably 8-10 years away from actual delivery. I hope they have plans to expand more with something else in the mean time. The 737 order that is being delivered right now, probably won't be enough to bridge the gap until that jet is ready. Any thoughts about what they will do in the interim?

User currently offlineDalb777 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 11575 times:

Is the 737RS going to be Y1, or is the Y1 going probably going to be a whole brand new airplane, not a modified 737?


Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 11563 times:

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 9):
Is the 737RS going to be Y1, or is the Y1 going probably going to be a whole brand new airplane, not a modified 737?

Y1 and 737RS are one and the same. As far as we know, it will not share anything with the existing 737 family other than the market space.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineDalb777 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 11529 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
Y1 and 737RS are one and the same. As far as we know, it will not share anything with the existing 737 family other than the market space

Thanks, so the 737RS is just a temporary name? Eventually, it will have a new name, like 797? I guess we won't know anything official until Boeing makes it public.



Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 11516 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
Y1 and 737RS are one and the same. As far as we know, it will not share anything with the existing 737 family other than the market space.

So it will be like the 6 million dollar man...
or in this case, the "6 billion dollar plane..."

"Gentlemen, the 737 has been a very successful airliner, but it has been rendered obsolete... We now have the technology to make it fly further, and make it better, more advanced than any 737 before"

*6 Million Dollar Man theme plays*

 Wink



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 11045 times:

I'm sure AirTran is looking at many different options in the course of due dilligence regarding future strategy....it would make sense to consider something like this. But, I would think the risk is too great when you see that
AirTran is doing well as it is; controlled growth, only two aircraft types, selective about which markets it serves.

The 787 to London would only introduce more cost because you have a higher paid crew, another type, much higher station costs, market saturation, and a product that from the ground up was designed for the N.A. market.

But ya never know....like many carriers before them, they could be taking "stupid" pills.



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 10966 times:

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 13):
The 787 to London would only introduce more cost because you have a higher paid crew, another type, much higher station costs, market saturation, and a product that from the ground up was designed for the N.A. market.

Airtran is actually considering that kind of international expansion? Isn't that a little drastic, as I believe someone else on this thread has asked? Why not use them for Caribbean or Latin American expansion, or even expand to Canada. Yet, I think I suggested that on another thread and someone came back and said that this was unfeasible and/or not part of FL's business plan. Or was that WN... I dunno... Too many LCCs to keep track of  confused 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineBtriple7 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1161 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 10788 times:

Quoting Vulindlela744 (Thread starter):
Have heard from a very reliable source

I think we're going to need a bit more than that for your statement to prove valid.

This world is filled with speculations. Please give us some more information.

Who? exactly told you this?
What? model would AirTran order?
Where? will AirTran fly to with such a big plane?
When? will AirTran be buying the 787?
Why? does AirTran need such a large plane?
How? will AirTran justify the cost of operating the 787 with their LCC structure?

Regards,
Btriple7

[Edited 2006-04-18 22:21:06]


Just...fly.
User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10750 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 14):
Airtran is actually considering that kind of international expansion?

Yea, I just fed off of the info the thread-starter presented:

Quoting Vulindlela744 (Thread starter):
FL is actually looking to add the 787 in their fleet within the few years for service to London.

Somewhat knowing AirTran, this seems like an idea that was discussed, but quickly countered with arguements about the amount of risk, so it doesn't sound feasible to me.



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10150 times:

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 5):
I don't see this happening either. Air Tran knows that their current business model is a winner, and it would be a mistake to change it that drastically.

Who knows what may happen 5-10 years down the line. Due to consolidations or bankruptcies several airlines may disappear. The North Atlantic market could be ripe for someone like Air Tran to enter into it. It would be folly of Air Tran to focus myopically on staying exactly where they are. That will guarntee trouble down the road.



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineCOA735 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 9810 times:

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 11):
Thanks, so the 737RS is just a temporary name? Eventually, it will have a new name, like 797?

off the topic i little, but whats after the B797? A 807??  scratchchin 


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 9714 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 14):

Airtran is actually considering that kind of international expansion?

Some airline industry analysts have actually predicted AirTran starting US-Europe flights by 2010.

AirTran will expand internationally, but I would put anywhere outside of North America, Central America, and the Caribbean as slim to none for at least a decade. Now if one of the big players goes under in the next few years, who knows what they might do. I see AirTran entering the Mexican market hot and heavy within the next 2-3 years (CUN is a start, that is if they ever announce the new start date for the service), and the start of Canadian service within the next 12-18 months. You look at the ATL-Canada market, and a route like ATL-YYZ is crying out for LCC service. With AC flying the E-Jets on the route, they've really upped the ante against DL. The two DL mainline flights are using the 732, and the 4 DL Connection flights are CRJ-100s (OH) and CRJ-200s (EV).


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 9714 times:

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 16):
Somewhat knowing AirTran, this seems like an idea that was discussed, but quickly countered with arguements about the amount of risk, so it doesn't sound feasible to me.

That is my thought as well regarding FL's international expansion... Words of the wise: take it slow...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 9460 times:

In my opinion this is no where near as far fetched as everyone assumes. F9 already is trailblazing with their Mexican and Canadian routes. FL has a advantage in that they are significantly closer to London then F9 is in Den. Likewise I think B6 may find a way to run london routes.

As for the 787 in particular, when the plane was first introduced many pointed out that this plane would be perfect for a internaional low cost carrier. It's unexpectidly large success around legacy carriers has blnted that somewhat, but it is still a factor.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 9236 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 21):
In my opinion this is no where near as far fetched as everyone assumes. F9 already is trailblazing with their Mexican and Canadian routes. FL has a advantage in that they are significantly closer to London then F9 is in Den.

I thought that F9 is taking a slow approach to expansion. I have made statements about them opening up a hub on the east coast and people have told me otherwise that F9 really doesn't want to rapidly expand...

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 21):
Likewise I think B6 may find a way to run london routes.

What makes you sure of this? I am just curious...

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 21):
As for the 787 in particular, when the plane was first introduced many pointed out that this plane would be perfect for a internaional low cost carrier. It's unexpectidly large success around legacy carriers has blnted that somewhat, but it is still a factor.

I agree with this bit here. It seems like a perfect fit for transatlantic service. Given the high fuel costs and operating costs in general, and given current state of the airline industry as a whole, I am not sure of any major international expansion of domestic LCCs. I know that FL, F9, and B6 are really not considered domestic, considering that they have Caribbean, Mexican and Canadian service. A transatlantic expansion, to me, would be a considerable expansion and I am just unsure if such an expansion would be economically feasible at this point...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 9101 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
The 787 option makes the most sense to me if they plan on crossing the pond.

IF they decide to start doing transatlantic flights, the 787 is the obvious choice. Honestly, I see them expanding more into the west coast, the carribbean, and canada first. They are conservative. Also, their biggest limitation is getting aircraft to fill their capacity, as they grow into their current routes, they'll start expanding out. maybe in 5 to 10 years, they'll look at london, paris, etc, i think an LCC flying transatlantic has some potential.

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 5):
I don't see this happening either. Air Tran knows that their current business model is a winner, and it would be a mistake to change it that drastically.

No, but I think eventually they'll evolve, and end up covering a wider range of routes. Right now, increasing capacity is the issue. I think a west coast hub may also be in their future.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 9054 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 6):
What is the RS stand for?

Rediculously stupid  duck 



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
25 Steeler83 : That is my sentiment exactly regarding FL's expansion Yeah, in 5 or 10 years or so, but not now... Other bigger fish to fry right now... Bingo, and I
26 Dutchjet : I do agree that AirTran ordering the 787 would be extraordinary, but we must consider the following: 1. The future of Delta Airlines is still very ver
27 Steeler83 : Dutchjet, you brought up some really good points and why FL would consider transatlantic service... Of course!! If DL goes belly up, who fills in the
28 MarkATL : I also heard from a very reliable source at LH, that they are about to sign a deal for 25 (plus 25 options) new 767-230s. They won't be ERs because th
29 Post contains images Steeler83 : That LH bit sounds really interesting. I look forward to hearing about that deal with Southwest; that should be really interesting
30 N723GW : Dang, I thaught it ment "Really Super" Man, was I off
31 SAIL52115 : LMAO Just brilliant!
32 SparkingWave : Be careful! Remember that Steve Austin became the 6 million dollar man because he was involved in a plane crash! SparkingWave ~~~
33 Post contains images BCBHokie : This sounds a bit nuts on the face of it, but with the 757 line shut down and the 767 line on its last legs, the 737 and 787 become the logical replac
34 Steeler83 : Do you think that ATL will be the only city to see FL transatlantic service should FL explore such service? Would they even consider expansion at a no
35 Lehpron : How do you figure? Is it a question of capacity, frequency, or range; just to name a few? If you happen to know their business model (or your best gu
36 Steeler83 : I was acutally referring to the short term, as in within this year or next...
37 Bcbhokie : Good point - although people are still psychologically willing to pay higher fares on trans-atlantic flights, so as I understand it those routes are
38 Post contains images Lehpron : Pardon me if I still didn't get what you meant before, but what did you mean by "bigger fish to fry" in the meantime? Methinks specific carrier growt
39 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : In Related Stories, Northwest Airlines announced the intent to hire 10,000 new Flight Attendants and order 100 A380s. Also, Look for Delta Air Lines t
40 Post contains images Lehpron : I know the industry is going to give me a hard time because I've already set my sights on killing that perception. But first, I must show that risks,
41 Steeler83 : I agree. Without risk, there wouldn't be much of anythin in the business field. Business is all about taking risks, and this one really does look as
42 Flyf15 : I once heard the same type of rumor from a Frontier insider. It was that they were looking at buying A330-200s for Atlantic and Pacific routes in the
43 Jorge1812 : Never, never, never! is the 762 still in construction? Doubt that highly!!! Georg
44 Steeler83 : What is the likelihood of FL expanding their service in places like IND, PIT, or BWI, just out of curiosity? Anyone have any ideas?
45 Indy : The FL CEO promised further expansion in IND. But no idea what the scope will be.
46 Centrair : Please share man...don't hog the good stuff. And if it isn't from a Cheech and Chong Adventure, the person feeding you this stuff certainly has been
47 Post contains images Dazeflight : Georg, I think you need to re-adjust your irony detectors
48 Stitch : Yes, the 767-200ER is still available from Boeing. They are currently building one right now (I believe it will become a KC-767 for the Italian Air F
49 DAYflyer : Range and capacity. Although the 737 could cross the Atlantic, it has limited range, capacity and higher CASM compared to the 787. Also, I'm too sure
50 Steeler83 : Yeah, you and I are pretty much on the same page here. I simply don't think they're necessarily ready to take on a european market just yet, but I co
51 Congaboy : True enough, but in order to differentiate yourself from others in the market, you have to have outrageous brainstorming sessions to determine if any
52 AvConsultant : This is not a short term strategy. This is long term. The evolution of business is moving faster than the legacy carriers are capable. FL views the L
53 Post contains images MarkATL : Did you two really not see that what I was writing was intended as a joke. I was writing some of the most outragous "rumors" one could hear. Just lik
54 Post contains images Jorge1812 : Irony - whats that? Georg
55 Steeler83 : Ah ok. Other people on this thread have posted saying as such as well, and now I am starting to think that maybe that FL could definitely pull this o
56 Congaboy : I would agree with AirTran having a look at this, as I mentioned earlier, but I have to disagree with you that even years from now it makes sense for
57 MSYtristar : Yes, they flew lumbering old 741's to London. Probably should have picked up a smaller, more efficient aircraft, but that's all in the past.
58 AvConsultant : Yes, I do and don't forget Peoples Express grew rapidly. I predict in the next 20 years, these forums will have people saying remember when DL and NW
59 Congaboy : You could be right...ya never know. Look at how different the commercial aviation climate is from back in 1986. Stansted and/or Luton. You can look a
60 Blsbls99 : Someone had mentioned People Express and their London flights, and of course that PeEx went out of business. From what I have read and what I remember
61 Areopagus : The 787-3 and -8 have the same sized cabin. The -8 has longer wings and beefed up structure to carry the fuel to fly long range. The difference in qu
62 Post contains images Lehpron : Concorde had 737 type pax didn't it? I think the evolution of the post-787 world may be (as much as I am against it) even more fragmentaion doing to
63 Steeler83 : PIT was just too expensive of an airport for US to maintain a hub at let alone maintain operations. After 9-11, ridership went from 14 million pax do
64 777STL : I could definitely see FL doing trans-Atlantic ops. It's a niche that hasn't been filled. Look at QF, with the defunct AO and the soon to be Jetstar I
65 Post contains images AvConsultant : I did not realize that about PIT and traffic decline. Geez, 10 million pax decline. I don't understand where these people disapear too. I've read the
66 Post contains images Steeler83 : It wasn't that most of these people were going to other airports; 4 large commercial airliners were hijacked by inhumane thugs. People were afraid to
67 Srbmod : EasyJet and Ryanair follow the WN business model (the pre-TZ involvement one), so codeshares are probably out of the question involving those airline
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