Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Mesaba Bills Ex-Pilots For Training Costs  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3128 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Courtesy: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Mesaba Bills Ex-Pilots For Training Costs

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/376572.html

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 439 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Don't remember hearing anything like this before! Makes sense however, why should only companies be held to contracts? Even though they were about to be furloughed, the company could claim that were only temporary and that the pilots would be recalled. Wish I knew more, but doesn't look good for the pilots.

I'm with management on this one!

flying_727



On ATA, You're On Vacation
User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 1):

Because these pilots wer TOLD that they were going to be let go! Instead of waiting until the day they got let go and then being with out a job they decided to be proactive and find a new job and then gave Mesaba notice that as they were going to be laid off ANYWAYS they would be leaving.
A first year pilot can not go months without a paycheck. He or she can't just wait to be laid off and then go try to find a new job. Getting on with an airline can be a long process thus they got the ball rolling before they were screwed and left without a paycheck.
Additionaly these guys only make about $20k per year at the beginning and on top of that have $40,000+ loans from training to pay off.
This is a reprehensible move by the airline!

Additionally, the temporary furloughed argument is ridiculous for two reasons.
First, they would not have been back on before the one year contract was up.
secondly, a Pilot at that stage in his career CANNOT go for an undetermined amount of time without a paycheck.


User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2459 times:

Let me just add that being a pilot in training, I realize the fact that I will have to live for a number of years in a stage of ZERO gaurenteed financial security. I will be making less than a gaurd at the local Walmart and can be laid of for a VAST number of reasons. On top of that I will have tens of thousands of dollars of training costs to be paid off in the form of loans (and I'm lucky in that sense considering that I made it through college w/o having to take oiut a loan, so it is only my flight training that I have loans for).
To hit a person in such a simmilar situation with a bill of over TEN THOUSAND dollars, which represents over half a year of pay, AFTER telling them that they would get no paycheck starting in a few months is ridiculous!

What makes this even worse is that Mesaba used a bankruptcy court to throw out the labor contracts, yet now it is getting picky with these pilot contract!

Then to make it even worse here is a quote from Mesaba:
"But they also stressed that management has informed them that it "reserves the right" to issue the letters to any pilot who was furloughed but had not completed one year of flying with Mesaba."

In otherwords they have not ruled out sending bills to Pilots for not completing a year BECAUSE they were being furloughed!

[Edited 2006-04-18 23:10:29]

User currently offlineFlying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 439 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

I completely understand the arguments that the pilots would not be getting paychecks and the frustration and the "why does it matter" mentality. However this doesn't negate the fact that the pilots signed a CONTRACT. As in any case dealing with contract law (In the us), you can't just break the contract when you dont like the actions of the other party when they act within the bounds of the contract. Anyone who has taken any form of business law or contract law would undstand that.

I agree that this may not be morally right, however, it seems that the action by Mesaba may be legally justifiable.

Flying_727



On ATA, You're On Vacation
User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 4):
the pilots signed a CONTRACT

But Mesaba SIGNED contracts regarding pay and work schedules and then simply used bankrupcy court to throw those out. I'd like to see a pilot use a bankrupcy court to throw out his training contract... good luck.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2011 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 3):
"But they also stressed that management has informed them that it "reserves the right" to issue the letters to any pilot who was furloughed but had not completed one year of flying with Mesaba."

Could this be used if when recalled they are with some other company (most likely all of them)?


User currently offlinePhilhyde From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 5):
But Mesaba SIGNED contracts regarding pay and work schedules and then simply used bankrupcy court to throw those out. I'd like to see a pilot use a bankrupcy court to throw out his training contract... good luck.

So, Mesaba used legal recourse to terminate the contracts (?), and the pilots used what...logic? Not exactly the same thing.



HoustonSpotters Admin - Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 7):

Give me a break; that legal recourse you talk about is nothing but back door path that management in a company can take to throw out contracts... This entire situation is simply a perfect example of the HORRIBLE status quo concerning labor rights in the United States. It is disgusting to think that a company can use "Legal Recourse" to gain better terms on contracts for itself while the employee's gain NOTHING other than lower pay and benefits and a higher probability of getting laid off.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2335 times:

They should have to pay!!!
They recieved the training and signed the contract. The company needed the pilots untill the day they had set for them to be furloughed and it was the pilots choice to leave early so now they have to suffer the consicuences. I dont know why this is such a big deal everyone knows that if you sign a contract you have to live by the terms........



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3085 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 4):
However this doesn't negate the fact that the pilots signed a CONTRACT.



Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 9):
dont know why this is such a big deal everyone knows that if you sign a contract you have to live by the terms........

Isn's a collective agreement with the employees a contract? No one is forcing the company to stand by it's negotiated contract...In fact many in here are championing the company when they break them...How it is for the good and the greedy employees should be glad they have a job ....

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 5):
But Mesaba SIGNED contracts regarding pay and work schedules and then simply used bankrupcy court to throw those out. I'd like to see a pilot use a bankrupcy court to throw out his training contract... good luck.

 yes 

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineH53Epilot From Israel, joined Mar 2004, 177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 5):
But Mesaba SIGNED contracts regarding pay and work schedules and then simply used bankrupcy court to throw those out. I'd like to see a pilot use a bankrupcy court to throw out his training contract... good luck.

Both legal. A pilot can declare bankruptcy, easy. However, the ramifications will be long and unfavorable.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Ex-pilots For Presidents/CEO's posted Tue Dec 4 2001 16:09:08 by LMML 14/32
Mesaba Mechanics Follow Pilots, Open Strike Center posted Mon May 8 2006 19:54:03 by KarlB737
How Many Pilots For One Plane? posted Wed Nov 16 2005 19:04:09 by FJWH
United Recalling 300 Pilots For Expanded Flights posted Wed Oct 12 2005 23:09:15 by KarlB737
Why No U.S. FA/Pilots For CX? posted Mon Oct 3 2005 04:33:01 by Centrair
Tips For F/A Training posted Wed Jul 13 2005 01:43:24 by BR715-A1-30
Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW posted Fri Apr 22 2005 14:37:33 by TOLtommy
Mesaba Mechanics Union Calls For Strike posted Thu Feb 17 2005 01:13:06 by KarlB737
NOW Delta Asks Pilots For $1 Billion In Cuts! posted Sat Jul 31 2004 02:15:40 by KarlB737
Pilots For Airlines Flying To Israel, Arab Nations posted Fri Jul 23 2004 23:44:55 by Airplanetire