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Why Do US Pilots Call Bovingdon - "Bovington"?  
User currently offlineThowman From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 363 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

The northwest stack to LHR is based around the VOR at BNN (Bovingdon). Most of the traffic in the stack is either transatlantic (BA, Virgin, AC, UA, AA, IA...) or UK domestic flights (BA, BD and Aer Lingus, and odd things like the Qantas 744 which appears from time to time, probably doing the leg down from MAN to LHR? I live right underneath the stack, and recently purchased an airband radio to listen to the traffic passing overhead and circling the town I live in.

One thing that has stuck out has been that the pilots US based carriers, namely AA and UA, when conversing with ATC always call it "Bovington" rather than "Bovingdon", in spite of the fact that ATC and all other traffic say "Bovingdon".

Is it named incorrectly on US charts or something?

75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

Probably just the way it sounds to them on their headsets. Words sound alot different through a headset when you have static interference etc.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineNoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6783 times:

It's the same as getting an American to pronounce "Birmingham" or "Nottingham" - it's always "Bir - ming - HAM" or "Nodding - HAM"  Wink

They just don't get it, bless 'em!  Smile

On a related note, ever notice how in Flight Simulator "Luton" is pronounced "Lutton" on ATC (i.e. "Lutton Approach")...


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6766 times:

Same with the tennis at WimbleTon  Smile

I never did get that one either!


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

Quoting Thowman (Thread starter):
...and odd things like the Qantas 744 which appears from time to time, probably doing the leg down from MAN to LHR.

I thought Qantas stopped that route ages ago? They used to do it with 747s, then it was a dedicated BA 737 from T4, and they also used that Flightline 146 (seen below flying under a QF callsign).

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fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineThowman From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6732 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 4):
thought Qantas stopped that route ages ago? They used to do it with 747s, then it was a dedicated BA 737 from T4, and they also used that Flightline 146 (seen below flying under a QF callsign).

There was definetely one in the stack yesterday morning at about 10am. It could have been moved over to BNN from LAM if that stack was full?

Funnily enough, the VOR is actually sited on a fromer USAF airbase from the WWII era - so they should know how it's spelt  Smile. Interesting fact, it was where Glenn Miller's plane that dissappeared took off from.

[Edited 2006-04-19 14:30:59]

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

Ooops..........................................


Jimbo

[Edited 2006-04-19 14:38:44]


I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

Quoting Thowman (Reply 5):
Funnily enough, the VOR is actually sited on a fromer USAF airbase from the WWII era

Can you name any pilots who were in the USAF during WW II and who are now flying for commercial airlines with a FAA pilot's license?

Also, the english phonemes for 'd' and 't' are positionally the same in the mouth. They are both alveolar plosives. The difference is that a 'd' is "voiced" and a 't' is "voiceless." It makes it very easy for imprecise pronunciation.

My linguistics professor in college made a point of teaching the class about the difference by asking a bunch of us to pronounce the words "ladder" and "letter." They should have distinct consonant sounds in the middle, but my lazy nutmegger accent makes "letter" sound like "ledder."

I'd imagine the same thing is going on. American place names mostly end in 'ton,' so I'd imagine the pilots are unused to making the distinction between 'ton' and 'don.' They may not even realize that they are pronouncing it with a clear 't' sound because of the linguistic similarities of the phonemes.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineJetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

Well you Brits can't pronounce Air Canada correctly ... sounds like you're saying "Air Canader", and you say Japan Air weird too, sounds like "JapAN Air".

JC


User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6612 times:

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 8):
Well you Brits can't pronounce Air Canada correctly ... sounds like you're saying "Air Canader"

You mean it's not Canarder??  Wink

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 8):
ou say Japan Air weird too, sounds like "JapAN Air".

Who is Japan Air? Any relative to Japan Airlines? Are they related to "British Air", another airline that doesn't exist?


User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6599 times:

Americans for you.

To quote John Cleese, "they enjoy torturing the English language"!

 stirthepot 


User currently offlineDrExotica From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6547 times:

Part of this may stem from the lack of cities in the US that end in "don"; personally, I cannot think of one (other than New London, Conneticut). There are more cities that end in "ton" though (e.g., Wilmington, Canton, Scranton).


N707PA - Best looking commercial aircraft ever.
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6546 times:

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 8):
Well you Brits can't pronounce Air Canada correctly ... sounds like you're saying "Air Canader", and you say Japan Air weird too, sounds like "JapAN Air".

Just be anal here  Wink

That is more of an accent problem than saying the word as if it's spelled differently.

Wimbledon and Bovingdon don't have T's in them!

You can say Bovingdon in a Texas (or even Alabama!) accent without saying BovingTon.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineSteady Eddie From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

Glenn Miller took off from Twinwoods aerodrome in Bedfordshire

User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

Quoting Thowman (Reply 5):
Interesting fact, it was where Glenn Miller's plane that dissappeared took off from.

That's inaccurate. Glen Miller's final flight took off from Twinwoods in Bedfordshire.

EDIT: Jinx. You beat me too it.

[Edited 2006-04-19 16:57:59]

User currently offlineJetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6463 times:

Quote:
Who is Japan Air? Any relative to Japan Airlines? Are they related to "British Air", another airline that doesn't exist?

The callsign Japan Airlines uses on the radio is "Japan Air". That is what we're talking about right ?

JC


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 15):
The callsign Japan Airlines uses on the radio is "Japan Air". That is what we're talking about right ?

JC

Sounds about right, but I don't see what the issue is with the way Brits pronouce Japan Air. "Japan" IS pronounced Ja-PAN. At least where I'm from...


User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 15):

The callsign Japan Airlines uses on the radio is "Japan Air". That is what we're talking about right ?

Well no, apparently, we're talking about US pilots calling Bovingdon "Bovington", but I understand what you're getting at...  

So how would you explain the over-use of "British Air", when BA's callsign is "Speedbird"?

[Edited 2006-04-19 17:07:34]

User currently offlineThowman From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 14):
That's inaccurate. Glen Miller's final flight took off from Twinwoods in Bedfordshire.

OK, so I got it a bit wrong. However, he did visit there. The Wikipedia entry for Bovingdon is quite interesting. Seems it was the home to several Film Stars in the USAF, Clark Gable, James Stewart etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bovingdon

It's a shame I can't record some transmissions, as it's not legal here. Anyone wanting to listen and have the range should try 119.725.


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Just like "China Air". Who on earth are they?

User currently offlineBA0284 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 299 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6284 times:

Quoting Thowman (Thread starter):
"Bovington"

Yeah i too live under the bovingdon hold and i've always always herad it called Bovington by the americans!!! Really drives me mad!! haha

Quoting Thowman (Reply 5):
There was definetely one in the stack yesterday morning at about 10am. It could have been moved over to BNN from LAM if that stack was full?

WOW! I've never seen anything like that in BNN, if it would have been a QF flight, it would have been QF31, which was VH-OJF according to acars.

The strangest thing i've seen in the BNN hold is...a UA DC10 or an AZ MD11F.

BA0284


User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6274 times:

Quoting Noelg (Reply 2):
It's the same as getting an American to pronounce "Birmingham" or "Nottingham" - it's always "Bir - ming - HAM" or "Nodding - HAM" Wink

They just don't get it, bless 'em! Smile

That would be because we have our own Birmingham and it is pronounced Birming-ham, rather than "Birming-am."

Quoting DrExotica (Reply 11):
Part of this may stem from the lack of cities in the US that end in "don"; personally, I cannot think of one (other than New London, Conneticut). There are more cities that end in "ton" though (e.g., Wilmington, Canton, Scranton).

No major cities ending in "Don", no, but there is a little town in Tennessee called "Huntingdon." Throws me for a loop every time because you just don't see that very often in the US.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 10):
Americans for you.

To quote John Cleese, "they enjoy torturing the English language"!

My friend works in Customs at LHR, and the other day heard an American Ask his colleauge "Do You Speak English ?" - The Reply - "We invented it madam!".

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

I think it ill behooves the British to criticize the less linguistically challenged English speakers (Americans and Canadians), when they themselves are quite possibly the world's worst word manglers. A good example is Wuster for Worcester. Another is 'Hants' as an abbreviation for Hampshire. Anyone who doesn't know that Hampshire is itself an abbreviation - for Hamptonshire, is bound to be confused. Also, just because they are too lazy to pronounce the 'H' in Birmingham, that doesn't make it right. I won't even bother to get into the residents of the Manchester area, who don't seem to have heard of the letter 'T'  Smile
The British may have invented the English language, but it's a pity they didn't leave it alone after they invented it.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7616 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6057 times:

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 23):
I think it ill behooves the British to criticize the less linguistically challenged English speakers (Americans and Canadians), when they themselves are quite possibly the world's worst word manglers.

Quite. The correct pronunciation of 'Wrotham' (in Kent) is root-ham while the surname Featherstonehaugh is pronounced fan-sure!


25 Post contains images Bond007 : Quite. The correct pronunciation of 'Wimbledon' is Wimble-Don (not Wimble-Ton), and 'Bovingdon' is pronounced Bov-ing-Don.   Blame the right people.
26 ATCT : Worcester, Mass. If you can pronounce it right, 90% chance youre from new england :P
27 IAirAllie : Sorry, but in 28 years of living in the US and Canada I have never heard WimbleDon called Wimbleton. Maybe you just don't understand north american ac
28 Antoniemey : I, myself, am still trying to find the F in "Lieutenant."
29 DesertFlyer : Really? My grandfather has a Oklahoma accent and it's definately Wimble-ton, and hell, that's even how I say it. It's difficult to change pronouciati
30 N1120A : They still use it I believe. Japan Airlines radio callsign is Japan Air. Actually, they say it right in England too, where there is also a Worcester.
31 Post contains images Thowman : My original post wasn't so much about the occasional mispronunciation, but the regular incorrect saying of Bovingdon. I was listening again this morni
32 Drinkstrolley : Love it!
33 Drinkstrolley : Who told you that? I live in Hampshire, UK and did A Level geography with case study on Hampshire and never heard that one! Mind you, this has nothin
34 F14D4ever : It's pervasive. My wife pronounces it "WimbleTon" as well. Another illustration: a former co-worker of mine named David always pronounces his name "D
35 Post contains images Bond007 : Then you haven't been listening too carefully It has nothing to do with accents ... they think it has a "T" in it. Jimbo
36 DrExotica : Funny. Back in the early 70s, when tennis was becoming popular (before completely falling off the radar again in the early 80s), it was quite the sno
37 TimRees : Sorry, don't know where you got this info from, but a quick google search on the origins of the County of Hampshire revealed: Formerly known as 'Sout
38 LHR777 : No, you believe wrong my friend, it stopped about 6 months ago. I used to work it at the gate in the morning...it was lovely, i'd pre-board the entir
39 Post contains images Olympus69 : I was only guessing, but I was pretty close - just left off the 'South' in front. It seemed the only logical way to explain 'Hants' - Hampshire not h
40 IFEMaster : Actually, the correct pronounciation for the British Worcester (as opposed to Worcester, MA) is exactly as you describe it, phonectically - 'Wus-ter'
41 Alphascan : I'm quite positive you didn't hear that.
42 IRelayer : I would chalk it up the differences between American and British English, namely the spelling conventions and such. Causes a lot of confusion with pla
43 Scott0305 : Being from Yorkshire and sharing this particular vocal trait with my Lancastrian cousins, I must point out that although we do not pronounce the lett
44 UAL747 : Learned the Yankie way of pronouncing Worcester, Mass my first year in college at Boston U. Woostahhhhh!!!..(then picture a bunch of white kids flash
45 Loggat : This is exactly how Worcester, MA is supposed to be pronounced too. (I grew up in UK and moved to MA)
46 Crewrest : There was a lady ATCO calling it 'Boving-ton' on Monday morning.
47 Thowman : Funnily enough, I heard that too!
48 Timboflier215 : i love accents, fascinating! and so long as ppl understand what your saying, it doesnt really matter IMO! i went to school in a town called Loughborou
49 LH423 : I'm fairly certain that story is, if anything, a slight exaggeration of the truth. While I'll be the first to admit there are stupid Americans, 90% o
50 Antoniemey : Uh, well, my mom once had someone ask her how they could get upstairs when she was on the baggage level... she was standing right next to the stairs.
51 Iairallie : Not as ignorant a question as it may sound. For example at LHR not all the elevators go to the same floors some do not go down to train level etc.
52 TWA902fly : I really very seriously doubt that you heard United 93 at LHR this morning '902
53 Antoniemey : Yes, but the key here is that they all go up, and down. Plus, asking the question standing right next to stairs is the clincher. The key problem here
54 Post contains images N766UA : Well if you guys would just spell things like they sound or... at least pronounce things as they're spelled it'd be so much easier!! I've always been
55 Post contains images Longhornmaniac : Funny you say that, I thought the same thing. Not an attack on you, Thowman, but I seriously doubt you heard United 93, as that was the flight number
56 Post contains images FutureUALpilot : I still wonder how we got the pronounciation "Ker-nel" from Colonel?
57 BCBHokie : There's also a small town in southwest Virginia called Abingdon. It's known best as the home of the Barter Theatre. Ben
58 N1120A : I have even heard that pronounced the British way by Pensylvanians. Lang-css-ter.
59 WesternDC1010 : Yeah, when listening to Ch. 9 on United during various holdings, I used to think that pilots and ATC were saying 'Bobbington' instead of the actual '
60 Post contains images Bond007 : Well, not on that one. Aluminium is spelled differently than Aluminum, so it is correctly pronounced by both sides of the Atlantic ...although Alumin
61 Thowman : Yeah, sorry, It was giving it as an example, and I guess my sub concious just chose that number. The United flights that come over my way are all ata
62 Post contains images Electech6299 : Yup, we don't have "downs" (or downes) in America, but we do have Towns. So we got lots of -tons, but not too much in the way of -don. I always under
63 Post contains images N766UA : If I saw "Worcester" I'd say "wer-chest-er." Guess that proves I have no lineage from New England.
64 474218 : The suffix "ton" comes from the Saxon word "tun" which means "town". I searched for the suffix "don" could not find it. But I think it may mean the sa
65 RedDragon : I've never been there, but I always thought the British version was pronounced "LEMster" (two syllables).
66 Post contains images Csavel : The T and D sound merge in American English so latter and ladder sound exactly alike. Interestingly this is the only thing I can think of offhand tha
67 Burnsie28 : Japan Air... Call sign for Japan Airlines No, we speak it clean. You mean like we call it everywhere here, especially in ATC talk. Where as if you sa
68 Lp0815 : IIRC than "don" stems from "dun" -> hill Could very well be wrong, though!
69 Max Q : Well, most American pilots cannot say Sao Paulo properly either, for some strange reason 90% of them change it to 'San Paulo' And then they try to spe
70 Electech6299 : That was my thought as well- one of my old high school friends was named "Downes" and was very perturbed that the only reference to the term on the w
71 Bond007 : LOL ... no comment! Jimbo
72 Post contains images Electech6299 : Oops, I misread that, I thought you were talking about my first car! (Lemon-ster)
73 LH459 : Ah yes, the people who decided that T indicates a glottal stop! I've always wondered where that came from...
74 VV701 : It is actually an abbreviation of Sothamtonshire - that is the county (shire) of the City of Southampton and is shown as such on most maps printed in
75 Sflaflight : Ooooh! Touché! (or should I say tushay!) Yeah! History of the English language university professor here! No word in the English language is native
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