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$17 Billion To Build New Airport At San Diego  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3100 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11114 times:

Courtesy: Airports International

New San Diego Estimate: $17 Billion To Build Airport

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=6172

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRadelow From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10790 times:

We can fund that with our pension plan....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


User currently offline1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10740 times:

Forget it. SAN is fine. The new airport authority keeps showing pictures of tons of planes backed up waiting for takeoff wanting to scare people into voting for a new airport. When were those pics taken? During a rwy 9 landing while taking off on 27. That happens only maybe 20 days of the yr. The real reason they want a new airport is so they can develop the land on the water that SAN sits on. Ya, build one in Imperial! I am sure everyone would love to drive 2hrs or pay 10 dollars each way to ride a speed train. I would rather drive up to SNA rather than do that.

User currently offlineSmokeyrosco From Ireland, joined Dec 2005, 2112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10727 times:

Ha Ha, and to put it in perspective (for the Irish, or maybe Europeans), they could level DUB and rebuilt it with 2 runways for about 5 Billion Euro (or $6 Billion)


John Hancock
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 600 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10707 times:

Quoting 1011 (Reply 2):
Forget it. SAN is fine. The new airport authority keeps showing pictures of tons of planes backed up waiting for takeoff wanting to scare people into voting for a new airport. When were those pics taken? During a rwy 9 landing while taking off on 27. That happens only maybe 20 days of the yr. The real reason they want a new airport is so they can develop the land on the water that SAN sits on. Ya, build one in Imperial! I am sure everyone would love to drive 2hrs or pay 10 dollars each way to ride a speed train. I would rather drive up to SNA rather than do that.

Think about this statement. The Airport Authority isn't saying today is a problem. They are saying tomorrow (30 years) there will be a problem not only in San Diego, but greater SoCal. The Airport Authority has no interest in land development on the water - IT DOESN'T EVEN OWN THE LAND IT SITS UPON. That land would revert back to the Port of San Diego (a different agency from the SDCRAA-Airport Authority).

Think about what San Diego was like 20 years ago. Have the freeways been improved YES. Has airport runway/taxiway infrastructure been improved NO! Could you imagine if today I-5 was only two lanes in each direction. Another runway needs to be added in San Diego, just as additional lanes have been added to the freeways over the years. Air traffic is no different than road traffic, infrastructure needs to be upgraded to keep up with increased activity.

I am sure the Airport Authority is keenly aware of the problems associated with the remote sites, which is why in all likelihood they will be removed or if added to the ballot- would be rejected by the voters. They know the lessons of Dorval.



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10696 times:

Read closer.

"This figure, presented by consultants Ricondo & Associates, covers an airport built at either Campo in southeast San Diego County, or on land in Imperial County, with a high-speed rail link and improved highway infrastructure."

Then:

"The actual cost of construction is put at $6.4 billion for Campo and $4.1 billion for Imperial.

This makes the cost of a new airport at, say, Miramar look very attractive.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10672 times:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 3):
Ha Ha, and to put it in perspective (for the Irish, or maybe Europeans), they could level DUB and rebuilt it with 2 runways for about 5 Billion Euro (or $6 Billion)

As they could a new airport in San Diego. The extra cost comes from access infrastructure, not airport construction itself.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10560 times:

That's bullshit, the Imperial site was removed. Why are they making the theoretical costs known, there are many ignorant people out in the voting community that do so knee-jerkly. Speaking of which:

Quoting 1011 (Reply 2):
Ya, build one in Imperial! I am sure everyone would love to drive 2hrs or pay 10 dollars each way to ride a speed train

They are not going to build it, that is the estimate HAD they! A few months ago, this site was removed as one of the potential sites because no one wants to go out there!

Quoting 1011 (Reply 2):
The real reason they want a new airport is so they can develop the land on the water that SAN sits on.

I've lived here longer than you, I've never heard that. I'm only for the current Miramar site, personally, its convinient and close-by and most of the infrastructure is already there, no need to spend billions extra.

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 5):
The actual cost of construction is put at $6.4 billion for Campo and $4.1 billion for Imperial.

This makes the cost of a new airport at, say, Miramar look very attractive.

BINGO, let's hope people can understand that.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineSiromega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10532 times:

Indeed, they need to take over the base and use that instead of building one in the middle of nowhere. I wish they would have done that here in LV - had the US Govt give the County DOA enough land for an airport, and sold the rest of the land for development, and build a new base further out. Instead we get an airport 45 minutes out of town (non-peak travel time, rush hour could be 90 minutes or more).

User currently offlineF9fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 696 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10476 times:

I wonder if they are aware that the price their quoting is over triple the price for DEN, and that was after all the UA change orders and the delays caused by the luggage system UA said they ABSOLUTELY HAD to have (and is now abandoning). What are they going to do? pave the runways in pure gold? Diamond studded sink handles in the restrooms? I find it very difficult they are going to spend that much cash on an airport.

F9Fan


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10476 times:

Quote:
Think about this statement. The Airport Authority isn't saying today is a problem. They are saying tomorrow (30 years) there will be a problem not only in San Diego, but greater SoCal.

I have tried to point out to residents here in San Diego that LAX is actually going to limit capacity at 75 million per year, despite projections that it could reach a demand of 120 million per year. You have a better chance of seeing Saddam Hussein return to power in Iraq than you do of seeing BUR, LGB, or SNA expand, and our delightful Lindbergh Field, though convenient and photogenic, simply cannot last forever.

I feel like Kassandra, from Greek mythology - blessed by the Gods with the power to see the future, but cursed that the knowledge would never be believed.

Southern California will realize in 20 years that shortsidedness has led to their airports being slot controlled and the "Southwest Effect" will be meaningless. Then I can do the "Told-You-So!!!!!" dance.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10428 times:

What can possible be done to that itty-bitty little piece of land that would cost $17 billion???


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10212 times:

Quoting 1011 (Reply 2):
Forget it. SAN is fine. The new airport authority keeps showing pictures of tons of planes backed up waiting for takeoff wanting to scare people into voting for a new airport. When were those pics taken? During a rwy 9 landing while taking off on 27. That happens only maybe 20 days of the yr. The real reason they want a new airport is so they can develop the land on the water that SAN sits on. Ya, build one in Imperial! I am sure everyone would love to drive 2hrs or pay 10 dollars each way to ride a speed train. I would rather drive up to SNA rather than do that.

Don't know much about peak hour demand and gate to runway ratios do ya?

Single Runway - 58 gates
Current gates - 45
2010 Gates 55
2015 Gates 58

Ooops!

Futhermore, lets say the airlines opt to run 767 size aircraft all day to meet demand with larger aircraft vs. operations. Heavies = greater separation = lower runway throughput - less efficient. Then of course, there's the issue of passengers. Even the weakest number given represents a 40% increase in passengers, and this is a figure given by a nay sayer. Just how do you propose to handle that level of vehicle traffic? Parking? This on an airport out of land, in need of a larger terminal for Southwest and one that is out of gate expansion opportunity due to the runway/gate ratio. Oh yeah, and there's that damn curfew limiting SAN to a 17 hour day. Then of course, there's the terrain that limits aircraft performance and payload capability for what would be a vibrant level of International service given the million people or so that go to LAX every year that would otherwise be flying non-stop.

Keep Lindbergh... Go ahead. I hope you like La Guardia.

Quoting F9fan (Reply 9):
I wonder if they are aware that the price their quoting is over triple the price for DEN, and that was after all the UA change orders and the delays caused by the luggage system UA said they ABSOLUTELY HAD to have (and is now abandoning). What are they going to do? pave the runways in pure gold? Diamond studded sink handles in the restrooms? I find it very difficult they are going to spend that much cash on an airport.

Denver would be about $10-12 billion today with an opening in 2020. A runway would be budgeted at about $1 billion today (earthwork and off the chart concerete prices), terminals/ramps/jetbridges are about $25 million a gate. Two runways and 70 or so gates for SAN in 2020 = $3.75 to $4 Billion. The price suggested is about right. The City/County/State is then on the hook for access from the highways. The further away they are from the site, the higher the cost. My hunch is off ramps for Miramar are a pin prick at about $250 million, compare that to Maglev at $15 - 25 Billion. Add about $100 million a year, each year that the airport isn't built beyond the 2020 point for inflation.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 10):
Then I can do the "Told-You-So!!!!!" dance.

I'll fly out and join you in 10 quick years when the reality begins to set in (that is if I can afford to fly into San Diego - or able to find a seat). Where we doin' the dance???? Miramar front gate?

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 11):
What can possible be done to that itty-bitty little piece of land that would cost $17 billion???

Nothing. It's not for that itty-bitty piece of land.

[Edited 2006-04-20 14:57:03]

User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1434 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10132 times:

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 4):
I am sure the Airport Authority is keenly aware of the problems associated with the remote sites, which is why in all likelihood they will be removed or if added to the ballot- would be rejected by the voters. They know the lessons of Dorval.

YUL - Dorval is very close to Montreal. I think you meant YMX i.e. Mirabel.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5083 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10095 times:

That's a lot of money for an airport for a city the size of San Diego.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

People in San Diego like to forget there's an airport south of the border called TIJ?
Everytime I read topics about SAN, the option of doing something at TIJ (maybe extending taxiways to cross the border and build a U.S. Airport Terminal there) is quickly turned down.
In the dream scenario of something like that ever happening, are we talking about a $100million investment vs. $17 billion for a new San Diego Airport?
I've been to San Diego, but I have no clue how far is TIJ airport from the U.S. - Mexican border and what's on the U.S. side nearest to that airport.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10008 times:

Quoting JAL (Reply 14):
That's a lot of money for an airport for a city the size of San Diego.

Which is why the airport won't be built in the Desert or the Mountains.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
I've been to San Diego, but I have no clue how far is TIJ airport from the U.S. - Mexican border and what's on the U.S. side nearest to that airport.

Use TJ's runway, make it longer (if not replace it). Place a runway between the North and South Runways on Test Site "D" (pages 6,10,11,12, and 15 below) and place terminals for both countries down the middle of the runways. Build a shared international terminal for long haul. Neutral airfield.

http://www.san.org/documents/assp/SPC_Brown_Field_101005_v3.pdf

What's there? Some industrial, a border fencline and some dirt. Biggest hurdle: Politicians.

[Edited 2006-04-20 16:44:07]

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9957 times:

Quote:
I've been to San Diego, but I have no clue how far is TIJ airport from the U.S. - Mexican border and what's on the U.S. side nearest to that airport.

TIJ is right on the line. After you cross the border into Mexico, it is a guaranteed $10 taxi ride to TIJ.

Getting back is the problem - you either have to go through San Ysidro port of entry or Otay Mesa, both taking quite a while.

Since Mexico is now the greatest threat to American security (at least according to some hysterical politicians hoping to kiss the derrieres of conservative voters), a joint use airport has been ruled out. Any sort of "shared" facility with Mexico is out of the question.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9929 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 17):
Since Mexico is now the greatest threat to American security (at least according to some hysterical politicians hoping to kiss the derrieres of conservative voters), a joint use airport has been ruled out. Any sort of "shared" facility with Mexico is out of the question.

Some irony:

Cross border - Threat to security
Miramar - Threat to security

Some reality:

Economic growth in San Diego = Higher Cost of Living = complications for the military to justify it's extensive existence in San Diego... Hamper that economic growth and the military benfits. Interesting... No?


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9747 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 18):
complications for the military to justify it's extensive existence in San Diego

Uh, just to be specific, (it sounds to me like the entire military presence in SD should be questioned): "complicates the military @ Miramar to justify it's extensive existence in San Diego"

Personally, I don't see why we need Miramar if we have North Island and Camp Pendelton to name a few. San Diego is this generation's Pearl Harbor, (somewhat, not really) we have a large portion of the west coast's Navy here. Our enemy isn't from one location (USSR) anymore, they are everywhere, and having huge basess every few miles makes little sense in my mind.

What I don't get is why this report was published at all? The imperial site was removed because it was too far away and expensive, furthermore why weren't these points in the article? I wish people would read the article rather than make assmptions as if SAN is remodeling, as is and location, for 17 billion. Of course it's expensive, but to assume that is the plan and will go ahead by wondering why do it at all, is stupid.

Quoting F9fan (Reply 9):
I find it very difficult they are going to spend that much cash on an airport.

Boeing could spend that much on a practical sonic the size of our beloved 737 if they had the foresight...

Quoting JAL (Reply 14):
That's a lot of money for an airport for a city the size of San Diego.

It's an estimate. Besides, 2/3 of the cost was towards a MAGLEV train system which would have a track length of over 50 miles. Since this would have been a first in the USA, of course it would cost as much as the A380 and then some. At least it may get way more traffic but it may take a while to recoupe costs.

There are already old railroad tracks all over miramar, Amtrack/Coaster cannot help going through as there isn't some giant tunnel under UTC (sorry Westfield, I still refer to Qualcomm Stadium as "The Murf"...) It would cost less than half a billion for a third and fourth set of tracks for a trolley or another Coaster to run through there. Hmm, how much extra would it cost to make a new ail line via I-15 to conect into Miramar, instead of expanding that freeway as wide as a runway over the next few dacades?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offline1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 9611 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 7):
I've lived here longer than you, I've never heard that. I'm only for the current Miramar site, personally, its convinient and close-by and most of the infrastructure is already there, no need to spend billions extra.

How would you know that you've lived in San Diego longer than I have? Were you born here? Or are you a transplant? Have you worked at SAN? Are you a pilot? Well, I am native of San Diego, a pilot, worked at SAN, and have lived aviation my whole life. I've had to deal with idiot airport managers for a long time, particulary Tracy Means the great airport manager at MYF who was fired. So I know a bit about aviation and San Diego's quest for a new airport.

In the 1950s or early 60s the Navy wanted to swap Miramar with Lindbergh Field. SAN said no thank you. They had their chance. I think Marine Corp Air Station Miramar is much more valuable than a civil airport. Both to the region and for national defense. I know Miramar is the best option just not with the Marines at Miramar.

If the people of La Jolla and UTC area hate military aircraft flying overhead they would love 500 + flights a day.

Either way no matter what option, tons of people in this city will be filing lawsuit after lawsuit. Look what a problem it was for the Padres getting Petco Park built. I can't imagine a new airport or somehow adding a rwy to SAN. All I can say is I'll believe it when I see it.


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 9576 times:

Quoting 1011 (Reply 20):
I've had to deal with idiot airport managers for a long time, particulary Tracy Means the great airport manager at MYF who was fired. So I know a bit about aviation and San Diego's quest for a new airport.

Then you haven't dealt with the airport issue at all.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 20):
If the people of La Jolla and UTC area hate military aircraft flying overhead they would love 500 + flights a day.

It'll be quieter. Stage IV will be in full effect in 20 years. It'll certainly be quieter than the Osprey.

Joint strike fighter at Miramar???

Yuma.... Slide 24....Presentation given 20MAR06. VMFAT-101 goes away when JSF transition is complete in 2020. Just in time for an airport to open.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/atb/FRS%20...ummit%20Version%207%20MAR%2006.ppt

(Right click and save)

Quoting 1011 (Reply 20):
In the 1950s or early 60s the Navy wanted to swap Miramar with Lindbergh Field. SAN said no thank you. They had their chance. I think Marine Corp Air Station Miramar is much more valuable than a civil airport. Both to the region and for national defense. I know Miramar is the best option just not with the Marines at Miramar.

When Miramar was in the sticks you mean? Miles away from town? Before Mira Mesa existed? When air service was... Well... non-existant. Pre-Terminal 1??? When a single runway was all San Diego needed for 50 years? Times up.

They'd have built a single runway airport, called it a day, had the same encroachment that exists at Lindbergh today and be in the same predicament looking for a way to expand. Miramar is so large in land mass running North/South that if done right, they can fit two sets of close parallel runways on it supporting 60 million passengers comfortably. More capacity than San Diego would ever need.

[Edited 2006-04-21 02:16:14]

User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9492 times:

Well chances of the knuckleheads in control in SoCal approving such a project are zero to none. I say let their pro-development/ no new infrastructure approach continue and maybe in 20 years they will be imprisoned as such for their lack of interest in the future. I just find the path happening in SAN similar to one that was taken by the richest cities after the civil war, mmmm..... Maybe they didn't have airtravel back then but Hartford through the following years did the similar development without infrastructure approach from the early 1900's heck even into the 60's and 70's and well look where they are now, 2nd poorest capital in the country and one of the biggest crime and murder rates in the country. For a city of its size and declining population it still finds ways to jam up 91 and 84 almost all day. I visit SAN 6 times a year just to enjoy the best land and area of the country but it tears me to see the same stuff happening in terms of the reckless development that happened in my state's capital decades ago. Soon they'll be forced to move the highway just like Hartford did to make room for more houses along the coast, but it will lack logistical foresight and soon the local economy will suffocate along the shore from the lack of foresight. Maybe they'll snap out of it and maybe do the wise thing and move to Miramar? Nope, Monkeys even know that.

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9471 times:

Frankly, I'm proud to be an ostrich. Fuel prices, technology, yet uninvented ways to travel all could contribute to the traditional airport boosters being dead wrong. If BUR and SNA won't/can't expand, then I will gladly add SAN to that list. Housing prices and everything else in San Diego make it too expensive except for the rich. Companies and their employees should just leave for other more hospitable areas of the country. As a 3rd generation native San Diegan all I have to say is that you new comers should go back from where you came (and take your traffic, new airport, increased crime, crowded beaches, pollution and lower standard of living with you).


Just Vote NO to any expensive and unnecessary airport scheme in November.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9452 times:

1011, checking my profile might answer some of your questions.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 20):
If the people of La Jolla and UTC area hate military aircraft flying overhead they would love 500 + flights a day.

I wonder how many of them know that the FAA does not regulate military aircraft noise? It would take several 787's to equal the noise of one Hornet without the afterburner. The threshold of the runway is about 2 miles from the University City area, I'd figure airliners would be pretty high up by then considering fighters climb shallow so that will add to noise.

For many noise is a scapegoat, another bigger issue is land value. The primary reason people willingly move near airports is beacuse the land is cheaper due to having an airport there, it's ironic they complain about noise. If Miramar went from an air base to an airport, it would suck for those who already own property there.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 20):
Either way no matter what option, tons of people in this city will be filing lawsuit after lawsuit.

Sue who, what, why ... its a proposal study now, soon it may be a preliminary study and then a detailed study, after which the vote for construction - it could be as much as 15 years away before the airport becomes operational. You claim you "know a bit about aviation and San Diego's quest for a new airport" yet you cannot phathom how giant of a project a new airport is going to be.

How about this, inform me with what you know, I'd like your viewpoint.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 20):
Look what a problem it was for the Padres getting Petco Park built.

That place should not have been built with taxpayer's money to begin with.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 20):
I can't imagine a new airport or somehow adding a rwy to SAN

Have you thought about this in long-term (i.e decades from now)?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
25 Jbmflyer : This is an interesting thread for me. I'm currently working on my MBA in aviation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. For my strategic airport pl
26 STT757 : There's some good former military airfields in California and even Arizona the Marines could move their operations from Miramar to, many isolated from
27 AAden : thats awsome I'd love to see it
28 BHMNONREV : There is one major problem with your suggestion sir. It makes way too much sense.. The George option would be perfect, because as you stated Pendleto
29 Post contains images Jbmflyer : San Diego because they train their troops right next to the airport from what i understand, and miramar because they are there. I've heard its incredi
30 Trvlr : This kind of post makes it a lot easier to understand why San Diego has so many problems at the moment. Aaron G.
31 Boeing7E7 : And do what? Add to that cost of living problem with higher air fares? Are you actually that naive to think people will stop traveling? That they wil
32 Boeing7E7 : The Fighters at are Miramar are going away and are not a factor - see linked presentation above. It's more cost effective to move the remaining Tiltr
33 PanAm747 : Someone wrote a letter to the editor in defense of keeping Lindbergh and said, "we just need to tell the airlines to fly bigger airplanes in here". I
34 DCAYOW : The problem with the Tijuana Airport, which nobody really likes to mention - is the fact that it sits upon an unstable mesa. If it rained heavily one
35 DCAYOW : I implore you to write this exact post to the Union Tribune opinion section. It is magnificent
36 Boeing7E7 : The larger problem is the airspace access and land sharing issues, not a tightly controlled airfield. ICAO standards would over ride the standards of
37 PanAm747 : I am honored. Welcome to my Respected Users List. Indeed, I have written this to the Union Tribune. So far, no reply.
38 Remcor : One major obvious reason must be comfort. Sounds silly when talking about a military base, but would you want to move from sunny beachside San Diego
39 2travel2know : There has been CU charters to HAV from TIJ. In an event of a dream-like U.S. Terminal at Mexico TIJ airport, if the U.S.-Cuba remain as now, I really
40 Boeing7E7 : 1. The decision to move Marines to the Desert was made by the military for the JSF program. 2. Moving the Ospreys to Pendleton is hardly a desert, or
41 SJCRRPAX : I'd decided to think outside the box and come up with a solution for you guys. Sell the land that San sits on to Disney and Disney builds an Epcot Cen
42 H53Epilot : No room up there, too full. Ain't gonna happen.
43 STT757 : The US is negotiating with Japan right now to move 7,000 Marines off the Island of Okinawa, 6,000 would move to Guam and 1,000 would move to the Japa
44 STT757 : These units might be better off moving to Kaneohe Bay Hawaii.
45 DCAYOW : Old Walt's first choice for the site of Disneyland was...don't laugh...San Diego.
46 AirframeAS : My reply to post #26 re: Williams Field. This is NOT and option anymore. The military used to occupy this old air base and is now a civilian airport.
47 Bicoastal : I'm as much an airline/airplane enthusiast as the next guy on this forum. A new airport would be "cool" but it isn't something I'm and most San Diegan
48 Coronado990 : See Narita, London and Frankfurt. I do not think hubs are only domestic. They are international as well. LAX cannot be the only spoke from these hubs
49 H53Epilot : Most San Diegans aren't willing to pay for a new airport. The one's who are will come up with a good, cheap alternative besides Miramar, which the Ma
50 DCAYOW : Don't worry you won't be called upon to pay for it. Airport financing is never done through local taxation schemes. Airports can issue their own bond
51 H53Epilot : There you go-It's official. His airliners.net screen name wouldn't happen to be Boeing 7E7, would it?
52 PanAm747 : Another fantasy. Look how long it took to double track through Encinitas. This has been talked about for many years, and we are no closer to it now t
53 Galapagapop : Do you live in San Diego? Have you been outside of San Diego to the suburbs and other growing areas like Del Mar and such? Sorry San Diego County is
54 Phuebner : Great!!! Here we are on the SAN airport issue....again. I am not even getting into the military deal. I've said my piece in previous posts. The deal i
55 Petrouchka : I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but I would say the 7th largest city (1.3 million people in the city limits, 3 million total in the metro
56 Post contains images Lehpron : When I read replies as short as that, I can't help coming to the conclusion someone didn't read the article, which clearly states the 17 billion figu
57 Post contains images San747 : I'll put my in here. I agree with PanAm747 and Boeing7E7 especially that Miramar is the only real alternative. There is no other site in the entire co
58 Post contains images Dispatchguy : And all of those recruits at MCRD wont have any airplanes to eyeball while double-timing along the perimeter road (I know I sure did)
59 SJCRRPAX : I don't know if the Marines ever did this, but I remember when the Navy boot camp was in San Diego, getting caught holding up a piece (they gave us t
60 PanAm747 : San747, beautifully put!! The "Good ol' days" when San Diego was a sleepy Navy town are over, never to return. Pointing this out to some people is her
61 Bicoastal : Those businesses knew the airport scenario when they located here. Are they as stupid as people who build a house under the flight path and then comp
62 Galapagapop : True, but your putting businesses in the same group as NIMBY's, fact is them moving there is an extreme benefit to the economy, but them and everyone
63 Bicoastal : No, I did not compare new businesses to NIMBYs. NIMBYs often have a right to complain because they were there first. In the case of those that build
64 Boeing7E7 : Build a new facility, above the floodplane. Better anyway. You can park an Osprey anywhere and you certainly don't need 12,000' of runway. San Diegan
65 Post contains links Boeing7E7 : And one wonders why there's a problem with Lindbergh: Don't move it....(MCRD is better than a poke in the eye - you could do about 80-90 gates, but it
66 Post contains images Phuebner : Gosh! You are such an expert. Apparently anybody who doesn't agree with you are just stupid and "don't understand the issue". No, I understand the is
67 Boeing7E7 : Clearly you don't. Never have, and never will. I'm sure an economic shortfall in the 7th largest city in the nation coupled with an adverse impact on
68 Boeing7E7 : Don't worry though Phuebner... I'm rather ceratain some self serving beholden to the military politician will derail this all in the end saving you f
69 San747 : Thank you! People need to realize that. I've got nothing against the military, but they cannot take priority in people's minds (over economical benef
70 Phuebner : Very well comrade! When you report to the politburo you will report with success.
71 Post contains links Boeing7E7 : And there you go Adolf: http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/site/...?c=euLTJbMUKvH&b=412359&ct=2247511 A slam dunk that nothing will ever be done on an air
72 H53Epilot : Voting for Miramar is akin to voting for Ralph Nader. If you want to waste your time voting for something which will never happen, well....It's a free
73 Boeing7E7 : Never... Like El Toro would never close? Like Miramar would never close before the Marines? Or never like, in your opinion never? Because last time I
74 San747 : There is no reason that the military can't work with the civilian powers that be to make Miramar a reality, but it won't happen as long as the milita
75 Post contains links Boeing7E7 : Really? Reply 22: RE: SAN Traffic Up 6.1%-Maxed Out Sooner Than Thought? (by Boeing7E7 Jan 22 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2563903 Miramar is simply the
76 2travel2know : I just saw TIJ airport on Google Earth, IMHO There's room overthere for a U.S. concourse/satellite near to the north side of the runway and an Airport
77 Boeing7E7 : TJ is on an aquifier. A section of the runway sinks and has to be filled in every few years. Major earthwork would be required as well as permission
78 2travel2know : A little bit north of TIJ on the U.S. side looks like there's an aerodrome. What's called? Is it in use? Could the runway be expanded? Does it have NI
79 Coronado990 : I think his solution is to administrate a good spanking to us in payment for our grandparents not addressing this issue like Kansas City did in the f
80 Post contains links PanAm747 : I believe you are talking about Brown Field, a general aviation airport. Any private planes flying into the United States from Mexico or points south
81 H53Epilot : After this analysis, I guess there is nothing for San Diego to do. It's a short flight to LAX.
82 Coronado990 : I do not get this. Most the money in Orange County is in the south part of the county. Most the money in San Diego is in the north part of the county
83 Boeing7E7 : Until LAX runs out of capacity, which it too is rapidly doing. Ignorance of the totality of the situtation is bliss. And the real air travel money co
84 737DAB320 : I'm not an expert on this by any means but why don't they build an island off the coast and put an airport on it like they did with KIX. The cost of K
85 H53Epilot : OK, say Miramar doesn't exist. It's either a huge lake or residential development. Then what? What happens when LAX runs out of capacity? What about
86 Boeing7E7 : 1. The cost structure has to be in line with other major airports, the airport cannot spend that kind of money. Airports are local projects, not mass
87 H53Epilot : I can ignore it if never happens and Miramar is very unlikely to happen, IMO. I guess you aren't considering any contingency plans. They'll be at max
88 Phuebner : I couldn't have said it better. Watch it, You have one over Boeing 7E7 and he'll pull out his whining and snivelling attitude. Typical liberal though
89 Boeing7E7 : You might want to consider your own contingency. LAX maxes out 2 years after SAN. Ontario has about 50 years of growth remaining. When you consider t
90 DCAYOW : Bravo Boeing7E7! Why people scream how valuable Miramar is to the San Diego economy without even wondering what opportunities (opportunity cost) has
91 Boeing7E7 : Talk about economic implosion from all the eggs in the military basket.
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