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U.S Carriers To Malaysia & Indonesia  
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 391 posts, RR: 1
Posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

which U.S airlines fly to Malaysia & Indonesia?NW was planning to.

.....up there with the best!
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

Northwest Airlines has been flying into Kuala Lumpur since February 1999. NW operates a DC10 from Osaka-Kansai as NW69/70. At Osaka - this service (after a plane change) operates on to Detroit and New York (LGA).

Malaysia Airlines and Northwest are planning to apply to the US DoT for anti-trust immunity to code-share on all their US-Malaysian services. This seems to be proceeding eventhough MAS is now in talks to join 'oneworld' (see previous postings). If granted NW will make KUL its Southeast Asian hub with MAS providing onward connections within Malaysia as well as Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Singapore, Jakarta, Denpasar-Bali, Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh - to name a few cities.

In return - MAS will have access to US domestic feeder services via Northwest.

Continental Airlines was approached by Malaysia Airlines to code-share on its Newark-Dubai-KL service but in-line with CO's persistant avoidance to commit to 'Wings' (before it collapse) - the route continues to be flown only by MAS.

There have been leaks that American Airlines is next up to serve Kuala Lumpur. AA plans to operate into Hong Kong - home of Cathay Pacific - and with the recent tie-up between CX and MAS, AA is now looking into KUL too as 'oneworld's' Southeast Asian hub. This looks increasingly likely as BA and Qantas are now in big talks with MAS re-oneworld.

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

I flew threw Jakarta last month. It was a beautiful but empty airport. Indonesia is the 3rd or 4th most populous country in the world, but most people don't make more than $35 (American) per month. Plus, the conflicts in some of the regions and the Asian economic crisis really does bode well for U.S. carriers flying there, other than through code shares. I flew in and out on Singapore Airlines, a United Airlines partner, and domestically on Garuda....which had very good service.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

Northwest also flies to Jakarta.

Aaron G.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

Whoops, cross that out. I for some reason got that confused with Manila. Sorry.

Aaron G.

User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1579 times:

The only one I know of to Indonesia is Continental to Denpasar-Bali via HNL and GUM from the mainland US. THere were a number of carriers looking into getting into Jakarta, until the economic crisis. In Indonesia, the economic crisis coincided with a political metldown, which has made it all the worse. If/when Indonesia gets its political house in order, the economy there will be huge. The nation itself is similar in total area to the U.S. and is set to surpass the US in population. The economy is rebounding, due to its own resilience, certainly not due to anything that government is doing, which is a good sign. Give it a good 5 to 10 years.

Malaysia's government, with the new Kuala Lumpur International Airport and the mostly empty twin towers as prime examples, is as bad as the Indonesian government at grandiose public works projects meant to boost their image, while they really can't afford it. It appears stable now, and the worst of the economic crisis seems to have blown over, but the political landscape is becoming more and more unstable. Also, Malaysia has not been forced by the recession to undergo any of the rigorous anti-corruption and economic/political reform programs that countries like Indonesia and Thailand have had to go through. These programs will greatly benefit these countries in the long-run, and Malaysia will be far behind. It operates a system not unlike that of the old Indonesia, only with the outer appearance of old British colonial governments. This gives it a bit more positive and legitimate outlook on the outside, but, as I have said, a its core, it is a bomb waiting to go off. (If the prime minister can get rid of rivals to keep his power unchecked by falsely accusing them of sodomy...sort of like Soeharto in Indonesia quickly removing any popular figure from his governments if they appeared to be able to rival him.) So, for now, MAS will have a lot of bids for codesharing, but I don't see many actual US liveries in KUL for a while.

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Cwapilot - those are rather strong views you have there on Malaysia. Personally I cannot comment on the situation in Indonesia - as I do not have many connections there apart from 2 small branches of my family who live in Medan and Jakarta. I have never seen them nor met them and as such can make no comments there.

On Malaysia however - the situation is not quite as many foreigners may believe. Malaysia, I believe does allow freedom of speech although there are strict rules that govern the conditions by which this freedom is based. It is important to note that this is a system which was not designed by the current government.

The current law which I (and many Malaysians may) agree SHOULD be reviewed but was designed to be a security measure to avoid what has/is happening in Indonesia. Foreign observers need to understand that politics practiced in MOST of Asia is very different from Western countries even in countries considered westernised like Singapore (which is very much a totalitarian state). Malaysia has these strict laws in order to avert chaos and political (and with it economic) meltdown. It is often not highlighted in the media the fact that these young Asian nations are very vulnerable to fanatical religious and tribal factions - something that most Western nations are relatively immune to.

In referring to Anwar's recent sentence on sodomy charges - I do not hold the current government in blame. That would not be of any constructive use to either parties involved. What needs to be done is to see how things can be improved. With the US Presidential elections coming up - it is interesting to see how Al Gore does - as in Malaysia - he is not very popular at all. After making the most insulting speech (to the Malaysian government) at the APEC Summit in Kuala Lumpur recently, even Australia (Malaysia's longterm political enemy) apologized for his behaviour and suggested that he made a sharp exit with Madeleine Albright.

Why are foreign observers so keen to back Anwar in his political 'reform' - many seem to have forgotten the famous photo (in Malaysia) of Anwar burning the American flag at a political rally in Kuala Lumpur in the late-70s. Although relatively neutral on this subject - I cannot fail to believe how many foreign observers seem to find Anwar faultless in his political aspirations.

If it is an issue on Homosexuality and Human Rights - Malaysia does have a rather soft stance on Homosexuality (Kuala Lumpur was host to the recent Gay & Lesbian Pride festival in April this year which was one the largest seen this side of San Francisco) but CANNOT currently legalise it as is an Islamic state by decree. I would also like to point out at this stage that Malaysians are a very tolerant nation - a fact that is reflected by the sheer number of mosques, churches and temples that are built side-by-side.

If it is an issue on Corruption - let's not even get into that - as I'm sure most Westernized governments are not sanitized in this department either. I refer to a recent BBC report on George W. Bush's campaign and the recent hoo-haa in Britain on political quangos and cronies.

So - in future - let's just stick to the point about the forum on this site.


User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

I, too, have family in Indonesia, who have extensive contacts in Malaysia, because of their business obligations. I remember being in Indonesia in April of 1997, when people were still speaking of Indonesia as you speak of Malaysia now. Once again, Soeharto had vanquished his enemies, as Mahathir has just done, with the appearance of an even tighter grip on the country. One year later, Soeharto was on television resigning...unthinkable and amazing all at the same time. Malaysia, being a much smaller and much less diverse nation, is naturally easier to control. With the upswing in the SE Asian economy of late, something on the scale of Indonesia will not happen there. But, Mahathir will not be around forever. If he was in such firm control, he would not have had to manipulate the court system as he did to do away with Anwar. That is not to say that I support Anwar in any way, that is just to say that the way in which he was done away with is suspect, to say the least. If that was true of the US, Clinton would not be in office right now...the safeguard here worked.

The point is, these events relate directly to the airline industry. Malaysia has avoided, this time, the move toward the international standard of transparency, while its neighbors, although not of their own choice, are now two years ahead, which will help in the long run. How many regularly scheduled flights are there into Dili or Baghdad? The same reason there are no United or Northwest flights into Jakarta at this moment. It is the same reason most carriers are more apt to sign a less risky code-share agreement with MAS than to develop their own routes into KUL. The same reason they are currently more apt to sign a codeshare with SQ into Jakarta rather than Garuda, let alone open up their own routes. It's all about risk, and these issues point directly to risk.

I wasn't attempting to bash Malaysia, but rather explain my reasons for believing, based on my study of the SE Asian economy, of why there is still a lack of US carriers in places like Indonesia and Malaysia. Within the next 5 to 10 years, I don't think they will be able to keep people out of Malaysia and Indonesia (including myself, can't wait to go back   ), as those countries, that region in fact, has the most promising future as far as growth potential and foreign interest.

Just as an aside, what was BBC reporting on the Bush campaign?

Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (15 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

FYI - the BBC report was into G.W.Bush's campaign being funded by industrial giants who have been promised things including pollution waivers if he gets elected. The BBC report was into the amount of pollution the US is contributing to the world with places like Texas as prime polluters and where Bush's campaign money is coming from.

I'm still finding it hard to see your point - and your comment on Clinton was rather at a tangent - were the courts NOT rigged with his trial??? I think although Malaysia does suffer from corruption it is a bit of a cheek for other countries comment - a case of the 'pot calling the kettle black' - to use a dated English saying.

I do NOT agree with you that Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Myanmar, Vietnam and other neighbouring countries have become increasingly transparent since the Economic Crisis. Your study of Southeast Asian Economies fails to note that with the return of Economic boom, Malaysia is in fact ahead of all the aforementioned countries and third only to Taiwan and S. Korea in its forecasted GDP this year. (Source Far Eastern Economic Review).

When it comes to Aviation - the problem with US carriers in Malaysia and Indonesia is the general lack of understanding between Washington and the two countries. Although Washington may deny this fact - these are the only Islamic states (not including Brunei) in East Asia and as such tends to be approached with caution. It surprised me and even my American friends and colleagues that Washington issued a travel advisory against Malaysia when Anwar was arrested...I was in fact at the 'Riots of Kuala Lumpur' as reported by CNN - I was on holiday with some friends sinking a few beers ... some riot...

US carriers have never been keen to serve Southeast Asia - possibly a throw back to the Vietnam War or something...think about it how many US carriers serve Bangkok or even Singapore (only 2 at each I think - United and Northwest) - so Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta don't really have many US carriers to look forward to.

What's interesting is the anti-trust immunity that both Northwest and (rumoured to be American as well now) wish to apply for with Malaysia Airlines. This is certainly a giant leap for the American-kind.

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