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Why No Flights Europe To La Guardia?  
User currently offlineAirevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 884 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13118 times:

I was just wondering why aircraft like the Privatair A319 and Boeing 737s that operate on behalf of Lufthansa or Swiss and other aircraft that size operating transatlantic flights do not use La Guardia airport? Might be more convenient for passengers than Newark and I would guess those flights do not really carry high amounts of transit passengers but just O+D passengers. Besides, La Guardia has really short ways for passengers and I would guess they have all the necessary customs installations there as well.

Good night!


www.airevents.com
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13118 times:

Because you can get there from EWR and JFK much easier.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineSwank300 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13118 times:

Because believe it or not, LGA prohibits direct flights originating over approx 1,800 miles from LGA, that is why there are no direct flights to LGA from the West Coast either.

User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13118 times:

There are a variety of restrictions on traffic to/from LaGuardia, including but not limited to flight segment length in miles, landing slots and curfew. International flights outside of Canada generally do not meet these restrictions, expecially the segment length.

Quoting Swank300 (Reply 2):
Because believe it or not, LGA prohibits direct flights originating over approx 1,800 miles from LGA,

There are a few exceptions such as Frontier's flights to/from its DEN hub.

[Edited 2006-04-20 00:35:50]


Up, up and away!
User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13073 times:

Quoting Airevents (Thread starter):
the necessary customs installations

Apart from the famous segment length rule, even Canadian flights that do qualify must come from airports with DHS' US Customs and Border Protection pre-clearance.. Exactly because LGA doesn't have that all.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7541 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12958 times:

Bermuda 2 - the agreement controlling the UK-US airline travel - specifically includes a list of cities from which US airlines may fly from to the UK and a list of cities that British airlines may fly from the UK to excepting only NYC/NJ. For the NYC/NJ area both lists include JFK and EWR (the only two specific airports in the list), but neither includes LGA.

There are no restrictions on which UK cites/airports can be used apart from the limit of two nominated airlines from each country flying into LHR that current excludes the likes of BD and CO flying LHR-USA.


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12949 times:
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Quoting EHHO (Reply 4):
Apart from the famous segment length rule, even Canadian flights that do qualify must come from airports with DHS' US Customs and Border Protection pre-clearance.. Exactly because LGA doesn't have that all.

I haven't been as an adult, and I cannot remember from when I was in Ireland, but don't you clear US customs in Ireland too? Not that an all business class service could be profitable between LGA and DUB.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3602 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12930 times:

All legal restrictions aside, what about the runway length of LGA? Is that long enough for intercontinental flights? Even a BBJ or A319LR should need some runway when full, right?

User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12897 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 7):

Heya,

To answer that question, here are some photos that will answer ver easily your question:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josh Akbar - NYCAviation




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bill Hough




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ron Peel



All of the above are much heavier than a BBJ or A319LR, so they would have no problem departing LGA.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12886 times:

No, considering LGAs facilities handle DC-10s, L1011s, and all versions of the 767 with relative ease. LGAs runways are 7000' by 150'. KLGA.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett - Photovation Images
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett - Photovation Images



User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12868 times:

DogFighter2111 beat me to it. Oh well! :-p

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12843 times:

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 9):
considering LGAs facilities handle DC-10s, L1011s, and all versions of the 767 with relative ease. LGAs runways are 7000' by 150'. KLGA.

Yes, it is also my understanding that they went out heavily weight restricted.


User currently offlineBomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12829 times:

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 9):
All of the above are much heavier than a BBJ or A319LR, so they would have no problem departing LGA.

Yes they may be much heavier, but would they be able to takeoff with a good sized payload? you have to remember these Heavies that fly into LGA don't go nearly to even half their range. The only aircraft I could imagine making it from LGA to Europe is the 757.

Peace  box 



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineLayzhon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12744 times:

BC most internationl carries won't allow there flights from Europe for instance to land on runways that are shorter then 9000 ft in the U.S.

User currently offlineScutfarcus From United States of America, joined May 2000, 405 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12724 times:

I read (on justplanes.com) that Delta will begin serving LGA from LAX non-stop. How do they get around the rules? DOes a special law have to be passed? What other exceptions are there for LGA?

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12719 times:

LaGuardia is one of the few airports that I know of to have an aircraft designed specifically for its use.

In the late 60's, AA wanted and aircraft that could fly between Chicago and LaGuardia, with a full load of 250 passengers, and no payload restrictions.

Viola' the DC-10 was born.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Because you can get there from EWR and JFK much easier.

Good answer.  Sad



Delete this User
User currently offlineDalb777 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12719 times:

Quoting Scutfarcus (Reply 14):
I read (on justplanes.com) that Delta will begin serving LGA from LAX non-stop. How do they get around the rules? DOes a special law have to be passed? What other exceptions are there for LGA?

That is only a Saturday service. Apparently, the rule does not apply on Saturday.



Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12693 times:

There can be no flights from LGA beyond 1,500 miles, the exception is Denver which was an existing route from LGA when the perimeter rule was established so it was Grandfathered in.

Also there are no customs facilities to handle trans-Atlantic travelers, passengers would have to be pre-screened as they are in Aruba, Bahamas, Bermuda and Canada.

And finally LGA's gain would be JFK's loss, JFK has such paltry domestic service (save Florida) of lengths 1,500 miles and shorter because if given a choice between LGA and JFK travelers will always choose LGA. If LGA is opened up to daily Trans-cons or flights to London AA, UAL and BA would pull down flights at JFK to beef up LGA.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLouA340 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12640 times:

Quoting Swank300 (Reply 2):
Because believe it or not, LGA prohibits direct flights originating over approx 1,800 miles from LGA, that is why there are no direct flights to LGA from the West Coast either.

Why did the airport authorities decide to do that. Wont that keep out room for more growth to the airport since it limits the destinations available?
Is it that they feel EWR and JFK already cover all those destinations and so the need is not there?



RyEng
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12639 times:

If there were no restrictions on flights at LGA there would be unbearable congestion, it would be a mess.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8117 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12623 times:

God, why do New Yorkers love La Guardia so much? Man, that airport is so overcrowded and delay-prone, and it's not that close to Manhattan. I think Newark is about as convenient as La Guadia, and JFK itself is on the same road out of town as LGA, it's just a little bit (like 4 miles) further.

I must admit I do like La Guardia cos it's kind of old New York, and from a flying point of view it's amazing, especially on approaches. I've been through there half a dozen times in the last few months and every single time, it's been perfect weather and everything's working perfectly and it's been a beautiful experience without exception. But I can just imagine one tiny thing happens, a hubcap falls off an MD80 and a runway is closed for ten minutes and everyone's day is completely ruined. I'd rather pay an extra $8 in a cab and fly from JFK where there's some extra capacity to allow for snow or a taxiway closure or something. I know Newark is known as "the delay capital of the world" but again, at least it's a big airport and better equipped to cope.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 12593 times:

Quoting Scutfarcus (Reply 14):
I read (on justplanes.com) that Delta will begin serving LGA from LAX non-stop. How do they get around the rules? DOes a special law have to be passed? What other exceptions are there for LGA?

That's for saturdays.

US Airways goes to Aruba from LGA on saturdays. Read the fine print  Wink


User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 12570 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
If there were no restrictions on flights at LGA there would be unbearable congestion, it would be a mess

As opposed to the very light traffic they currently have there.
 sarcastic 


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6836 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 12570 times:

Quoting Layzhon (Reply 13):
most internationl carries won't allow there flights from Europe for instance to land on runways that are shorter then 9000 ft in the U.S.

JFK runway 22L is 8400 ft and gets lots of European arrivals. Maybe most.

Recall that DL flies a 763 nonstop from OGG's 7000-ft runway to ATL, which is lots farther than LGA-Europe.


User currently offlineFLALEFTY From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 470 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 12550 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 15):
LaGuardia is one of the few airports that I know of to have an aircraft designed specifically for its use.

In the late 60's, AA wanted and aircraft that could fly between Chicago and LaGuardia, with a full load of 250 passengers, and no payload restrictions.

Viola' the DC-10 was born.

True!

IIRC, Eastern's specifications to Lockheed as launch customer for the L-1011 were similar- pulling a full load from LGA to MIA. Also, UA and EA, both launch customers for the 727, wrote its performance specs around LGA (which had sub-6K Ft. runways in the early 1960s).


25 777WT : On a related note, the 767 has what you call the LaGuardia bend. It's the design of the MLG to allow landings in LGA with the 767. Wider width to spr
26 Dtwclipper : There is no room for growth at LGA.
27 Zvezda : No, landing fees could be raised. It would be better to let the market decide which particular flights should operate from LGA vs JFK. The overall ba
28 Jetpixx : Definitely not - whenever I fly into NYC, I choose JFK, then EWR and then LGA. The AirTrain makes it so much easier to get RR/subway into the city. L
29 YULWinterSkies : Do I remember correctly when saying that AC could not operate to LGA from some Canadian cities because these cities do not have US immigration/customs
30 Tjwgrr : LGA has had European flights. You folks are forgetting about the history of the Marine Terminal at LGA. The original LGA terminal building, once calle
31 Don81603 : I heard some place (can't remember where, sorry) that the FAA had decided some years ago that JFK would be designated as the international airport, an
32 Wjcandee : Right. There was a time when LGA was the largest and busiest international airport in the world, before JFK was built. Pan Am's international service
33 Post contains images B777a340fan : Mainly because of convenience. It is the closest airport to Manhattan. I don't think LGA is anymore prone to delays than JFK or EWR. EWR is already o
34 2travel2know : Isn't it true that CO has a LGA-AUA-LGA Sunday Only or Saturday Only flight? Bear in mind that both AUA and DUB do have U.S. Point of Entry facilities
35 ANITIX87 : I agree. I hate flying out of LGA. The first time (to DTW) we were delayed 3 hrs. because of congestion. November of 2004 my HS senior class went to
36 A342 : To answer the runway length question, one has to consider that a A343 can make it from SXM to CDG nonstop. That´s from a 7700 feet/2350 m runway. The
37 ScottB : If you've ever tried to drive the extra eleven miles down the Grand Central Parkway/Van Wyck Expressway (it might be an "express"way at 3 AM) in typi
38 Post contains images Bomber996 : Yes, this is true, but some of the runway at LGA is build on stilts over the water. This is something that the flights at SXM don't have to deal with
39 BeechNut : Well let's see. A BBJ taking off for Europe would be near MGTOW. LGA has 7000' runways. Well according to Boeing's data (http://www.boeing.com/assocp
40 Soylentgreen : Laguardia is about 7 miles from midtwon Manhattan, versus 17 miles for JFK. That extra 10 miles can be an extra hour during rush hour, 30 minutes oth
41 Post contains images Planetime : There is US preclearence in Ireland as is in Canada. The approaches to LGA specially when parallel to Manhattan is amazing really. With the skyline a
42 Idlewild : How about Biz Jets? They're not distance restricted are they? Barring the Belgian A-310 because of it's diplomatic status, and excluding weight restri
43 Timz : I can't seem to find payload-range for the BBJ on Boeing's site, but I suspect it would be well below MTOW and 7000 ft would suffice.
44 Jetdeltamsy : Almost correct. The distance restriction is 1500 miles. Occasionally exemptions are granted to this rule. Denver has a permanent exemption. Exemption
45 Planetime : any reason for this restriction?
46 Jetdeltamsy : Yes. It is a method of relieving congestion at LGA by forcing flights to EWR and JFK.
47 ScottB : The U.S. preclearance in Ireland is only for immigration, not for Customs. From Canada, you clear both at the Canadian airport (if said airport has t
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