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Southwest Order 79 More 737NGs  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4116 posts, RR: 90
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12472 times:
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They just filed their quarterly report and this caught my eye;

"We are confident about our future growth opportunities as evidenced by our agreement with Boeing today to exercise 79 options for delivery of Boeing 737-700 aircraft in 2007 through 2012, bringing our current firm orders to 140. We also have 116 options, with delivery positions in 2008 through 2012, and 54 purchase rights for delivery through December 31, 2014."

Is this right? 79 extra orders for the frames?

Source Southwest Filing with SEC

Regards, PanAm_DC10

[EDIT - Spelling]

[Edited 2006-04-20 13:02:27]


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12461 times:
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SW must have big faith considering the rising fuel costs etc. 79 more orders, 140 current orders, 116 options and 54 purchase rights......yikes. Even worst then EK

User currently offlinePavlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12445 times:

Don't know. But when they receive all those 737NG they will be no doubt the biggest carrier in terms of passengers carried

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12398 times:

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 2):
But when they receive all those 737NG they will be no doubt the biggest carrier in terms of passengers carried

Southwest would need a few more than just 79 additional 73Gs to become the biggest airline in terms of pax carried  Wink . Unless of course you mean only domestic US, in case WN already carries the most people, IIRC.


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4116 posts, RR: 90
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12355 times:
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Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
SW must have big faith considering the rising fuel costs etc

About fuel cost's. They are hedged as follows;

Over 70% Hedged for remainder of 2006 at $36/Barrel
Over 60% Hedged for 2007 at $39/Barrel
Oover 35% Hedged for 2008 at $38/Barrel
About 30% Hedged for 2009 at $39/Barrel

This is an option exercise for the 79 frames and the information can be found at the following link;

http://www.southwest.com

It's pleasing to see the U.S. market is turning around with the amount of orders starting to take place. AS, CO & WN now all making solid orders over the past year. With more to come before year end from others.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12355 times:

79! Good order for Boeing if so, congrats!

User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12330 times:

Will this be one of their last big orders for the 737NG before the 737RS is launched, or can we expect them to excersise all their options?


Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12230 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
We are confident about our future growth opportunities as evidenced by our agreement with Boeing today to exercise 79 options for delivery of Boeing 737-700 aircraft in 2007 through 2012

Congratulations to Boeing and Southwest. Are all these options going for expantion, or will some of these orders see older -300 and -500 go?



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3740 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12192 times:
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Good news! I imagine that those will gradually replace the Classics. The oldest 300 is now over 20 years old, it should leave the fleet soon with the rest to be phased out in the years to come. Lately there has been lots of discussions about how much longer American will keep the Super 80's and what those would eventually be replaced with, the same applies with the 737-300's at Southwest. They are about the same age as AA's Super 80's. Don't forget that Southwest was an early operator of the 300 Series.

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 6):
Will this be one of their last big orders for the 737NG before the 737RS is launched, or can we expect them to excersise all their options?

It depends on the market. If Southwest needs addtional aircraft, should they open new routes and/or older aircraft are withdrawn from service sooner than expected, they yes they will excercise some if not all their options. But if they don't need to order any more aircraft before the end of the decade then they'll wait till the 737RS is launched, which is what American is waiting for.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineHarrisAir From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 59 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12153 times:

Does SW have tugs in these colors anywhere else? Or is this just a SEA thing??
Big version: Width: 1600 Height: 1200 File size: 771kb


Harris


User currently offlineSpartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11901 times:

Awesome news for an American company actually buying American aircraft without taking advantage of American bankruptcy laws..

So far, according to the corporate site, Boeing has 116 737 family orders for 2006 WITHOUT the new 79 aircraft order.

I looked through the site and could not determine how Airbus is doing on A320 family orders this calendar year - can anyone confirm?

Thanks!



"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4116 posts, RR: 90
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11863 times:
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Quoting OyKIE (Reply 7):
Are all these options going for expantion, or will some of these orders see older -300 and -500 go?

I too, would like to know that. It would be good if we could find out some more on their plans. IIRC, they still have 25 x 735s but I'm not too sure how old they are.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 8):
Lately there has been lots of discussions about how much longer American will keep the Super 80's and what those would eventually be replaced with,

They have already started to store, indefinately, 27 x MD-80 commencing April 3rd though to July 1st. With no plans, publicly announced, to replace them.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
It's pleasing to see the U.S. market is turning around with the amount of orders starting to take place.

In the interests of being equitable, I should have mentioned the US A350 order too.

WN usually just exercise their options in small increments. Year to date Boeing list only 4 737NG as UFO so a couple of frames may already be accounted for in the 79 mentioned today. As for the 54 Purchase Rights listed from 2012 through 2014, could these be convertable to the 737RS if it fits the proposed EIS?

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlinePavlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11730 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):

Southwest would need a few more than just 79 additional 73Gs to become the biggest airline in terms of pax carried Wink . Unless of course you mean only domestic US, in case WN already carries the most people, IIRC.

Why do you have to complicate things?
Southwest will de facto be the airline that carried the most passengers. They are now second or third


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5083 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11687 times:

Wow!!!



That's a big order!



Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11629 times:
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I haven't seen any press released from Boeing yet, but it's still pretty early here.

I don't think you'll see any real press releases on the 737RS until the engineers are fully confident that they have met all of the performance requirements, whatever that might be. With the 737NG lining humming at an astounding rate, it will be hard for Boeing to quit the line in the very near term. Keep in mind, each 737 sold is pure profit.


User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11455 times:

WOW!

79 orders for WN plus another 80 for China. BCA could be over 300 737 orders by May, if everybody gets their paperwork in.


Not bad for a 40 year old design  Wink



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11357 times:

This is just the news AA wanted to hear...........

N O T.
 airplane  safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9180 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11337 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
Over 70% Hedged for remainder of 2006 at $36/Barrel
Over 60% Hedged for 2007 at $39/Barrel
Oover 35% Hedged for 2008 at $38/Barrel
About 30% Hedged for 2009 at $39/Barrel

So I guess they have a little bit of a cusion until 2009 by looking at this? or would they have to consider buying more fuel after 2007? I guess as soon as we see a valley here in the fuel cost trend they might want to consider hedging more fuel; I don't think it's going to get any cheaper unless they can make a jet engine that operates on some alternate fuel source, which I don't think will happen anytime soon despite the technology. I wonder if engineers have started experimenting with this or even looked into it as well?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11313 times:

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 7):
Are all these options going for expantion, or will some of these orders see older -300 and -500 go?

The first -300s arrived in the fall of 1984, which means they'll turn 22 this year. I'd expect to see some retirements starting in 2007, but that's just a guess...

Quoting HarrisAir (Reply 9):
Does SW have tugs in these colors anywhere else? Or is this just a SEA thing??

Not in that particular scheme (as far as I know) but many stations have their pushback tugs painted in other schemes, usually the colors of a local college/pro sports team...


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3524 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11158 times:

In the next 5 years or so, how many a/c do they expect to receive from Boeing and how many a/c are they expected to retire?

Anyone know what the net aircraft gain is gonna be?



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4116 posts, RR: 90
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10834 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
I haven't seen any press released from Boeing yet, but it's still pretty early here.

Not to forget that Boeing usually let their customer make the order announcement when it suits the customer. We may have to wait a little before we see confirmation from Boeing.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 17):
So I guess they have a little bit of a cusion until 2009 by looking at this? or would they have to consider buying more fuel after 2007?

That would be a fair statement sir. Here is what their CEO Gary Kelly had to say about fuel costs throuhg to that date. It's from an interview on Bloomberg TV so I must adhere to copyright and use fair use excerpt only;

`We have years of protection in place on Hedging, Fuel hedging maybe US$30 million more than plan, Seventy-five percent of Southwest's first quarter fuel purchases were hedged at a price of $36 a barrel of oil, down from 85 percent at $26 a barrel a year earlier. Crude-oil prices averaged $63.48 a barrel in the 2006 quarter.

[ END Fair use excerpt - http://www.bloomberg.com ]

He also cited higher fare increases and ``Strong load factor and revenue trends have continued in April, and customer bookings for the remainder of 2006 are strong,'' which are offsetting higher fuel prices. That statement can be found in their release.

One thing is for sure, when looking at WNs Fuel Hedging policies of the past several years it would be fair to say that the have been amongst the most astute airlines when it comes to managing this risk. Given this is their biggest variable cost, this is no mean feat which they have overcome.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
I don't think you'll see any real press releases on the 737RS until the engineers are fully confident that they have met all of the performance requirements, whatever that might be.

I agree, but WN seem to be limiting 73G deliveries to no later than 2012, far more knowledgeable members than I have stated that WN have pushed Boeing for the 737RS and with the 53 Purchase Options from 2012 thru 2014 I was merely thinking out lound as to whether this could be an indicator as to the time horizon as to when we can expect the 737RS to become reality.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10673 times:

I assume if this order is true it's for more -700s?

Would WN ever need/order the 800/900ER?



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10624 times:

It would seem WN needs their own 737 production line at the Boeing factory.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
About fuel cost's. They are hedged as follows;

Over 70% Hedged for remainder of 2006 at $36/Barrel
Over 60% Hedged for 2007 at $39/Barrel
Oover 35% Hedged for 2008 at $38/Barrel
About 30% Hedged for 2009 at $39/Barrel

One thing I'm not sure most people understand about WN's hedging is that they aren't actually hedged for Jet-A. They're hedged for heating oil, which usually priced about the same.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 21):
I assume if this order is true it's for more -700s?

It says so in the article  Wink .

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 21):
Would WN ever need/order the 800/900ER?

They could theorethically do with a larger plane on some routes, but it would add another subfleet, which is not something WN wants. When all your planes have the same number of seats, it is a bit easier to schedule them. Long-term, WN will probably go all-73G and remove the 733s. Of course, depending on when the 737RS will come, for which WN will be a launch customer, guaranteed.


25 AirFrnt : Not by a long shot. Southwest can use these planes in a thousand more markets then a A380. EK's A380s alone are 50x555 seats = 27,750 seats versus 26
26 BoeingFever777 : Thanks, still recovering here from last night.
27 PlaneHunter : It's different from WN's, not necessarily "suicidal". Considering their strong and healthy growth from a tiny ME airline to a global player with almo
28 AADC10 : Jet fuel cannot be hedged in the US because it is not traded as a commodity here. There might be some foreign exchanges that handle fuel, but it is n
29 RwSEA : Good for WN. But I hope I don't hear Herb complaining about overcapacity any time soon.
30 Post contains links BoeingBus : Press release for the engine order: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=avx77buTXpko They are just tooo damn smart to do that
31 BoeingBus : Actually, I had a good laugh... Once in awhile its needed here. Thanks Socalfive!
32 Socalfive : I would agree IF the context of the discussion didn't encompass the financial strength of WN and the advantages the fuel hedging have had to their bo
33 We're Nuts : The -500's are going to be around for a while. They are the perfect aircraft for intra-Texas routes. Until the Feds get around to fixing the TSA (whic
34 Iowaman : I don't think that will be happening, WN's fleet is stretched thin already, and they got plenty of places even domestically yet to fly to.
35 Post contains links SNATH : It's on the Boeing's WWW site now: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q2/060420b_nr.html Tony
36 Ckfred : Where do they plan to fly all of these planes? So many of their current destinations are nearing maximum capacity, such as LAS and MDW.
37 Steeler83 : Then would it be fair to say that hedging fuel at a higher cost would not be too terribly devistating if at all for WN, given the case that you poste
38 DfwRevolution : The -500s are not scheduled just to Texas as the -200 were at the end of their lives. If they are focused anywhere, it would be California and Florid
39 Post contains images Lehpron : Where are all these planes going to go -- I ask not interested in routes, as much as worrying about space at airports. Sometimes I feel it isn't neces
40 Wedgetail737 : OAK sees a lot of 735's daily.
41 Steeler83 : They're probably going to take their time expanding PIT. O&D is growing considerably there, but it's nothing like the O&D market of other WN cities l
42 Post contains images Eatmybologna : Maybe ROC (NY) will get some. E-M-B
43 United787 : Since the 737RS will be an entirely new plane, why would it be guaranteed that Southwest would be a launch customer? I assume the 737NG and 737RS won
44 Coa747 : I don't see the 300's or 500's going anywhere anytime soon. Southwest will hold on to them and get their money's worth like they did out of the 200's.
45 Hawk44 : I would assume all of these new planes will have winglets? Hawk44
46 BoeingBus : High fuel prices...
47 DfwRevolution : They could begin leaving as early as next year, certainly a number will be leaving before 2010... Because the fuel costs for the 733 and 735 are now
48 Steeler83 : I believe that BoeingBus has a point here. The 733 was a very fuel efficient plane for its time due to the larger engine than that on the 732 and 731
49 ScottB : That's not a terribly good assumption; while perhaps the 737RS/Y1 might have a completely new design, it's certainly possible that Boeing could desig
50 Ruscoe : Many years ago the old USSR had a hydrogen powered jet engine flying on a modified airliner. Fuel was stored in huge spheres in the fuselage. No idea
51 Steeler83 : That was a pretty decent idea. How about bio jet fuel, or did I mention that already. I know that they are experimenting with biodiesel fuel. It is s
52 Post contains images Lehpron : Can't just add a different fuel and hope it works. Even ideally, the chemisty will be different and thus will change how much air burns and cools goe
53 Mymorningsong : SOUTHWEST AIRLINES CO SUPPLEMENTAL SCHEDULE IV BOEING 737-700 DELIVERY SCHEDULE Firm Options Rights 2006 33 (includes 7 deliveries to date) 2007 36 20
54 Gigneil : To be clear, this is not a new sale. WN has traditionally exercised all their options as they became available. N
55 PanAm_DC10 : Whilst I don't dispute that WN exercise their options as they become available to claim "this is not a new sale" is, respectfully, misleading. These
56 Post contains images Steeler83 : It was just a though, but it wouldn't hurt to have engineers do research on this. So a different kind of engine would be required altogether... oh sh
57 John : When will WN finally break down and order the 737-800 or even the new 900ER? Use them at airports that are capacity constrained such as MDW or PHL for
58 Hawk44 : I might be wrong but with WN's configuration it might require another FA which we all know would increase cost. Hawk44
59 N328KF : What year? Kelly Johnson started to use it for the SR-71, but decided that those spheres wouldn't conform well to a reconnaissance aircraft.
60 Dhefty : No, as PanAmDC10 says, they are new orders. They will show up on the Boeing orders website soon. One of the more interesting moves WN made was not on
61 OyKIE : That is true. A 739ER with 199 seats would require an additional F/A. On the other hand. That F/A would be more than offset if WN got those additiona
62 Dalecary : I'm constantly astounded at your high respect rating when you post blatant false statements as above. BTW, do you still think the A346 is a great pla
63 Sllevin : No, but it's a firmed order. These airframes were not counted in the outstanding orders until now, now was Southwest obligated to exercise the option
64 PanAm_DC10 : Sllevin, apologies for the nit-pick, but they will be firm once listed on Boeings order site. But by now acknowledging the 737NG has outsold the Clas
65 Art : If they can't provide the capacity profitably, sounds like a sensible move. Expansion could take them a step closer to taking advantage of American b
66 AirFrnt : They have a lot of room to grow in DEN and all of UA's other hubs. Or staying where they are right now might impact their business the same way. In t
67 UAL747-600 : Great job PanAm_DC10. To read it here before it's announced is why I hang around Airliners.net. UAL747-600
68 Post contains images Steeler83 : I think someone said that DEN was built to be a hub airport that never happened, so yes there is tons of room for WN to grow there. Which DC airport
69 Art : Any increase in fuel use will have to paid for at market rates, won't it? I don't see that expansion brings any major benefits unless prices can be r
70 Wedgetail737 : Does anybody know which 27 MD-80's? Perhaps they might be the ex-TWA machines?
71 Flywithken : As an aspiring airline pilot, i can help but think, How many pilot jobs will this order create?
72 Zvezda : Risky, yes. Foolish, probably. Suicidal, no. The B737RS (formerly Y1) is expected to enter service in 2013 or so.
73 ScottB : Only if you think that Southwest is generally unable to be profitable at market rates for fuel. If you think that they can gradually increase yield t
74 FlyDreamliner : I think they'll be using the new jets to partially retire some tired old 737-300s. They are already the largest domestic American carrier, they've go
75 Post contains images Lehpron : Thoughts are good, but the ball doesn't start with engineers doing research. Follow the money trail. If we lined up all new and old aviation technolo
76 Coa747 : Yeah I understand high fuel prices but only some of the 300's are getting close to the cycle limit. You just can't wholesale replace the entire 300 fl
77 Steeler83 : Then this would be like WN having the need of replacing some of its 73Gs... Yeahh come to think of it, they really should do this, and replace it wit
78 Coa747 : As far as I know the 737NG line still has 1,177 unfilled orders and growing. The 737NG isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The NG family with the new
79 Coa747 : By the way the last delievery of the 737-300 occured 12/17/1999 to Air New Zealand and the 500 was 07/26/99 to Air Nippon so some of those WN 737 clas
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