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CO & DL Fight Over NYC In Advertising  
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11022 times:

I have not seen the ads yet, but I saw this in an article today. This is a quote from an e-mail bulletin that I can't link to from this page. I was wondering when CO would start to complain about DL growing in New York.


"CO launched a new advertisement in New York City to set the record straight on a recent claim by Delta Air Lines (DL) regarding its trans-Atlantic service. The DL ads claim “Most flights to Europe,” but near-microscopic type at the bottom of each ad discloses that service is from the U.S. – not necessarily from New York – and it may be operated by Air France or another alliance partner.

By contrast, CO’s ad reads, “Only one airline flies nonstop to the most cities in Europe from the New York Area. And it ain’t Delta.” There is no ambiguity and there are no hard-to-read disclaimers in CO’s message.

This summer, DL will fly to 18 destinations in Europe, while CO will serve 26 European cities from the New York area."

151 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11003 times:

Time to kick DL out of skyteam- Mighty CO has been upset! :0


Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10991 times:

Lets get ready to rumble!


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10981 times:

DL can state that you won't ever be on a narrowbody flight across the Atlantic.

These spats are usually comical but in the end both airlines get consumer attention. There's a funny radio version about 2 competitors in a retail industry running in my area and I WANTED to sit in the car to let it finish before getting out this a.m. That doesn't happen too often.


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10970 times:

Ahhh... and the gloves come off!

CO and DL have both been very aggresive in NYC ads for years:

Subways, taxis, buses, billboards

CO has been cute:

"Yesterday you couldn't fly nonstop to Bristol . . . what a difference a day makes'

And so has Delta:

"Because saying 'I bought this in Europe' never gets old'

But CO has gotten nasty since last summer and actually names there competitors by name.

"More flights to South America that Northwest and Delta combined."

I was a little taken aback when they started doing that. It's generally an unspoken rule that you refer to your competitor, but never actually name them.


As for the new war . . . they are both playing deception games.

DL is the largest carrier across the Atlantic... when you combine ATL/JFK/CVG hub flights together.

CO is the largest carrier across the Atlantic from Newark . . . but again, this is not New York. Never has been, never will be. New York City's int'l airport is JFK. And CO has zippo flights from NY to Europe.




It's funny how Continental should call Delta on this one though.

You would think that an airline that has deceived people for 15 years with "New York/Newark" or "Continental has hubs in Cleveland, Houston, NEW YORK, and Guam" or "Nonstop to New York" would keep their mouths shut.

Truth:

CO flies to 3 nonstop destinations out of New York: IAH, CLE, and AUA.

No hub in New York. And for those that didn't know, it's not New York/Newark, it's New Jersey/Newark.

CO is not one to cast stones in their advertising glass house.

PJ


User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10927 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
No hub in New York. And for those that didn't know, it's not New York/Newark, it's New Jersey/Newark.

CO is not one to cast stones in their advertising glass house.

While this might be true, EWR is just as conveinent as JFK for INTL Departures and it is easier to get to the City, so therefore many people consider EWR as one of the "3" NY Airports.



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10915 times:

no one's doubting it's just about as convenient as JFK but IT'S NOT IN NY.

I sort of doubt that DL or CO will get into that fight because it doesn't mean much except to those that are fiercely loyal to NY over NJ. But I may be wrong.... it would make a nice 2nd verse to this fight song.


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10897 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):


no one's doubting it's just about as convenient as JFK but IT'S NOT IN NY.

Well from an IATA point of view, it is  Smile The "NYC" city code includes EWR...


User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10897 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
no one's doubting it's just about as convenient as JFK but IT'S NOT IN NY.

I agree with you, but the original post said CO's ad reads “Only one airline flies nonstop to the most cities in Europe from the New York Area. And it ain’t Delta.”

It says New York Area, not New York. And Newark is a New York-area airport.


User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10883 times:
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The spat is great! Good for NY travelers to have more options. Good for all travelers to have more connecting options in NY.

Also -- I agree they will both be winners here. The PR that DL gets from CO is good for them, as it makes them known as the new big player in NY! CO has been heavily advertising in NYC for years, so it won't be bad for them either.

As for who will get more passengers? Dude, it's NY metro, the largest O&D market in the world. They can both win -- that's the beauty of it!

Meanwhile, we can all sit back and watch the fireworks...

PS: Have you seen the big mural DL painted on the wall of a building near Penn Station/MSG? I think its on the NE corner of W 34th and 8th Ave, facing south. It's called "New York to the world" and it's a big DL ad. The funny thing is it's been there for years, even though CO and AA have always dominated the "NY to the world" scene. DL is FINALLY making it relevant!!!


User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10856 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
Newark . . . but again, this is not New York. Never has been, never will be. New York City's int'l airport is JFK. And CO has zippo flights from NY to Europe.

I can see your point, but it's kind of an old argument. There are so many cities that have their airport out of the destination city limits, and many even in different states, such as IAD (in Virginia) for Washington D.C., and CVG (in Kentucky) for Cincinnati, Ohio. Even Southwest calls ONT the "Palms Springs area”. There is no question that EWR serves as an airport for NYC.


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10816 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
CO is the largest carrier across the Atlantic from Newark . . . but again, this is not New York. Never has been, never will be. New York City's int'l airport is JFK. And CO has zippo flights from NY to Europe.

Then the only NFL franchise in New York is the Buffalo Bills.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10816 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
CO is the largest carrier across the Atlantic from Newark . . . but again, this is not New York. Never has been, never will be. New York City's int'l airport is JFK. And CO has zippo flights from NY to Europe.

Nor did they claim it was. You act like a three year old in these New York vs New Jersey arguments. Who cares. The reality is Newark Airport is in the New York Metro region. If Newark was in Westchester rather than across the river would you get so bent out of shape!


User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10718 times:
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Quoting Airzim (Reply 12):
If Newark was in Westchester rather than across the river would you get so bent out of shape!

If Newark was in Westchester, it would have 4 gates, 20 flights per day, and its one runway would have a zig zag approach pattern to avoid the NIMBYs.

(sorry, off topic, but since I was born and raised in Westchester, I couldn't resist...)

Oh, and no, they wouldn't get bent out of shape because Westchester is in the state of New York (just like I consider myself to be a New Yorker, even though my city friend somestimes complain that I'm not from the city, which I readily admit to, but remind them that I still carried a NY drivers license and that I could commute to midtown Manhattan faster than most of them who lived in Queens).

Anyways, the point here is that it is semantics. DL can make fun of CO that their airport is in NJ, but it is definitely a NYC-area airport. We all know it is pretty convenient to Manhattan, blah blah blah. It is a fun point in an advertising campaign, but really holds no water.


User currently offline767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10672 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
Then the only NFL franchise in New York is the Buffalo Bills.

Point taken, but the name of the Giants is still "New York Giants."

Newark's official name is "New Jersey Newark Liberty." Maybe they should rename the airport "New York Newark Liberty" for CO's sake.



Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10672 times:

Quoting Junction (Thread starter):
This summer, DL will fly to 18 destinations in Europe, while CO will serve 26 European cities from the New York area.

Actually, with this summer's expansion, DL will also fly to 26 destinations in Europe and to 27 transatlantic destinations in all when you take TLV into account.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineUAL#1fan From United States of America, joined May 2001, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10562 times:

As a student in New York, I have seen quite a bit of the advertising. Continental's is generally on phone booths while Delta is on taxicabs. CO has a pretty good airport in the area. Even though technically EWR is in the state of New Jersey, it is, if you live in Manhattan, more convenient than JFK. Unless you live in Queens or Brooklyn, you have to fork over a hefty cab fee or face a long (and I mean long) subway ride to transfer to the AirTrain to get you to Kennedy. By contrast, Continental operates a ticketing counter at Penn Station, and offers (through Amtrak) fast, direct rail service from Penn Station in midtown Manhattan to EWR.

So is there an advertising duel like this going on in Chicago between United and American?



United Air Lines -Mainliners Coast to Coast
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10517 times:

Quoting Dartland (Reply 13):
If Newark was in Westchester, it would have 4 gates, 20 flights per day, and its one runway would have a zig zag approach pattern to avoid the NIMBYs.

Of course there's no way in hell there would ever be an airport in Westchester but the point is the New York bias over state boundaries argument is silly. Geographically it really doesn't matter. All three airports serve the metro region whether in New York City limits or not.

Plus they're all controlled by the PANY/NJ anyway.

For me personally, I find LGA much more convenient to Manhattan than Newark by a mile (or 12). But if I'm going on a long haul to Europe or Asia going to Newark or JFK makes absolutely no difference. Except that EWR has the Airtrain which is infinitely more reliable than the Van Wyck.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10517 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
CO is the largest carrier across the Atlantic from Newark . . . but again, this is not New York. Never has been, never will be. New York City's int'l airport is JFK. And CO has zippo flights from NY to Europe.

Your can fight this over all you want but the state jurisdiction over Newark is irrelevant in this case. Nobody in Manhattan will choose to fly out of JFK because EWR is not in New York state.

Both Newark and JFK are similarly conveniente to Manhattan, which is the core of the metro area. And besides, I hate to break the news to you but for most people in Manhattan JFK "is not" in New York. It's somewhere out there beyond a bridge or tunnel.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10508 times:

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 14):
Newark's official name is "New Jersey Newark Liberty."

What? No its not... its simply Newark Liberty International Airport... just as LaGuardia's is LaGuardia... same as JFK is John F. Kennedy International... no sate names whatsoever.



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10427 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
no one's doubting it's just about as convenient as JFK but IT'S NOT IN NY.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
Then the only NFL franchise in New York is the Buffalo Bills.

aw, nuts, you beat me to it.  Smile But yeah, both the "New York" Jets and "New York" Giants are in New Jersey.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
Actually, with this summer's expansion, DL will also fly to 26 destinations in Europe and to 27 transatlantic destinations in all when you take TLV into account.

I think CO is comparing service specifically from NYC with the 18 (DL) vs. 26 (CO) destinations comment.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3094 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10343 times:

Quoting Junction (Thread starter):
This summer, DL will fly to 18 destinations in Europe, while CO will serve 26 European cities from the New York area."

By the end of the year, DL will serve 4 more transatlantic destinations than CO (don't forget that DKR and JNB are coming online). True that it's split between ATL and JFK, but still, DL has more destinations and is the larger carrier. Also, they fly widebodies instead of teeny weeny 757s. And they rarely need fuel stops on the way back.

I think CO is starting to feel threatened that DL is reasserting her European and Transatlantic dominance.


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10242 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
CO is the largest carrier across the Atlantic from Newark . . . but again, this is not New York. Never has been, never will be. New York City's int'l airport is JFK. And CO has zippo flights from NY to Europe.

Your "point" could not be more juvenile or irrelevant.

The state border is an imaginary geopolitical line.

The reality is Liberty International Airport serves the entire New York Metropolitan Area (yes, it's most convenient to those in the western part of the metro, just as JFK is most convenient to those in the eastern part of the metro), and is owned and operated by the same entity that owns and operates the other two major New York Metropolitan airports. Continental is completely accurate in marketing its hub as serving New York because it does serve New York. People fly into the airport because they are travelling to New York. It is just as close to Manhattan as JFK.

Signed,
A New Yorker.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineKlwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2031 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10206 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 23):
Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
CO is the largest carrier across the Atlantic from Newark . . . but again, this is not New York. Never has been, never will be. New York City's int'l airport is JFK. And CO has zippo flights from NY to Europe.

Your "point" could not be more juvenile or irrelevant.

The state border is an imaginary geopolitical line.

Thank you.... This argument is getting so silly. It's like saying there are no international flights to Washington D.C., you first have to fly to Virginia...Give us all a break and skip this nonsense.


25 777gk : I personally feel this argument is retarded, anyone who makes claims that Newark should not be considered New York in the same vein as JFK and LGA are
26 CRGsFuture : At JFK there is now there own version of the Air Train however, it is an automated light rail. Took it Wednesday for fun wow what a fast trip. As for
27 WorldTraveler : There is the heart of the argument. Let's not forget that DL hired two former network execs from CO (one via AZ) and CO is charging that DL "stole" s
28 AlexPorter : Technically speaking, if you use the US Government's definition of the New York Metropolitan Statistical Area, then EWR, LGA, JFK, HPN, and ISP can al
29 Letsgetwet : Since when is DKR and JNB in Europe? And CO' s statement about serving more destinations in Europe from the NYC area will still be correct at the end
30 Delta4eva : If you combine LGA, JFK, and EWR, DL comes pretty close. Granted, JFK might never become as big of a hub for DL as EWR is for CO, but altogether in N
31 Post contains images Corey07850 : Well if you want to go that route.... One of DL's hubs, CVG, is located in..... Kentucky!! Can you believe they advertise flights to Cincinatti when
32 RwSEA : Please tell me where I said "Europe". Re-read my post, and you'll see that I said "Transatlantic". That is good news to hear. I would hope to see mor
33 Letsgetwet : [ Please tell me where I said "Europe". Re-read my post, and you'll see that I said "Transatlantic". [/quote] This thread is not about Trans-Atlantic
34 Airzim : Again you continue to spout nonsense. Please show me anywhere at anytime publically or otherwise that CO ever said they were "peeved" at Delta for go
35 WorldTraveler : actually, CO executives have indeed said they have considered suing DL. It's not made up. Just google Continental Airlines to Nigeria and see how many
36 Commavia : DL threatening AA to Latin America because of JFK-GRU is like AA threatening NW to Asia because of ORD-PVG. It's just completely unrealistic. AA has
37 BigGSFO : Thank you for saying this. Doubtful. AA does just fine NYC-Europe and the only one slipping NYC-South America will most likely be DL.
38 Ewr756 : CO feels threatened by DL because they know they are vulnerable. The 757 was never meant to be a long-range trans-Atlantic airplane. Even with the ins
39 STT757 : The Jets are moving their Headquarters and Practice facilities to Floram Park New Jersey, the State of New Jersey will now be able to receive a windf
40 Ikramerica : This may be one of the dumbest threads I've ever read on a.net. And that's saying something!
41 Post contains images Csavel : These assertions depend on what part of the city you are talking about, Downtown Manhattan, yes, midtown, unless you are right by the Linclon tunnel,
42 Captaink : I appreciate that DL and CO are competing carriers, from the NYC area. But what i don't understand, is that they are both members of SkyTeam. I didn't
43 CRGsFuture : No, I think certain stereotypes happen for EWR, but people must remember that EWR is more convenient with the Subway to the NJ Transit then to the Air
44 Post contains images Cgnnrw : I agree. It's like two 14 yr old boys arguing who can pee the longest stream...... I know very little about corporate marketing but IMO knocking your
45 Airzim : I don't care how many ways you want to spin your baloney but CO was in a dispute with Nigeria over serving Lagos. It has nothing to do with Delta and
46 BigGSFO : I agree. Analyst reports have not been endorsing DL at all, except maybe the ones on DL's payroll. If you actually read the reports, you'll see that
47 ExFATboy : Ah, but there's this little thing called the Long Island Rail Road. LIRR leaves Penn Station, just like NJ Transit. LIRR/AirTrain to JFK takes about
48 Alitalia744 : Lest anyone forget CO was in bankruptcy TWICE. As has been UAL and US.
49 Atmx2000 : What do you expect? This is the US where airlines don't have clearly marked home territories that result from being from different nation's airlines.
50 Antoniemey : Oh god I would hope not. I think CO is smart enough to realize they're better off NOT merging with another "Big 6" airline.
51 WorldTraveler : Analysts don't put formal evaluations on DL anymore than they do for any bankrupt airline but they do know what DL is doing because they read the same
52 Airzim : So you confirm that these so called analysts reports were fictitious when you claimed that analysts were saying good things about Delta, and then you
53 Post contains links Commavia : And if you think all of this "much more" expansion is going to be so successful, you need to "get a dose of reality." Actually, no. I took the libert
54 WorldTraveler : you two twins absolutely cannot STAND that DL IS and WILL be a viable player - and I will be here every step of the way to bring out every DL success
55 Commavia : Yes, this definitely reflects the strategy of CO (and really DL, too) vs. AA to Europe, and always has. No one is disputing that. While CO and DL hav
56 Panamair : OK kids, gotta love these "whose is bigger?" games. Here are the YTD (Q1 2006) RPMs of the big 5 (and really, only RPMs count since they are the 'offi
57 Post contains images Ajiggity3 : Speaking of Delta Advertising, they just put this up by my townhouse in ATL. I thought it was cool and I hope you guys do too.
58 AlexPorter : I take it this excludes Mexico, since NW is listed at zero.
59 NYCFlyer : Huh? CO positively does not serve AUA from New York State. I know this as I just flew EWR-AUA with CO a month ago, and they def don't do LGA-AUA as w
60 B797 : CO is even putting advertising on beer holders. I was just at a Bar in downtown NYC on Friday. DL and CO are advertising all over the area. Dont forge
61 CAL : Continental Airlines flight 1851 operates on saturdays from LGA to AUA Make sure you know what your talking about before you talk, NYCFlyer
62 Delta4eva : I love that Ad...does anyone know if this is the work of SS&K or the old advertising, Ogilvy? I hope that they stick w/ this type of advertising. It
63 Ajiggity3 : Do you live in ATL? This one replaced one that was for non-stop to Antigua. There was also one up the street from this one that was non-stop to Barce
64 STT757 : Your so sure your right, however... CO does fly nonstop on Saturdays from LGA - Aruba.
65 FlyDeltaJets : CO has zero international flights from the State of New York. As hard as they try to consider Newark Liberty International Airport New York it will ne
66 RwSEA : Again, as noted above, CO flies LGA-AUA. I'm not a fan of CO's advertising any more than the next (actually, I can't stand CO), but good god man, rea
67 UAL#1fan : Yeah, their advertising's terrible. "Work Hard, Fly Right"? Sure, whatever. Most of CO's NYC advertising is directed at Delta or consists of idiotic
68 Antoniemey : I would take it you have never read "From Worst To First" by Gordon Bethune? That isn't their advertising slogan, it's their corporate philosophy.
69 Alitalia744 : Cab to JFK is metered fare plus tolls and tip. Only from JFK to Manhattan is it 45 flat rate.
70 Post contains links and images STT757 : CO has a 777-200ER flying literally all around the World wearing the NYC 2000 Millennium celebration colors actually painted on by artist Peter Max,
71 Post contains images ExFATboy : Who cares? EWR is just as accessable (or inaccessable ) from Manhattan as JFK. The fact that it is in the State of New Jersey is irrelevant. The fact
72 MalpensaSFO : DELTA enjoy buda fly to pest (Budapest) get lucky (Dublin) brazil it is .. down there(Sao Paulo) invade England from the north(Manchester) and so fort
73 WorldTraveler : Today's DL ad in the NYT: "To our friends in Newark: Size does matter" with a scale drawing of a DL 767-300 next to a CO 757. This is fun to watch!
74 Tpaewr : Hehe! Guess that marks the end of Delta "classy" ads. Personally I agree, this mud slinging is much more fun! Furthermore it is starting to gather pr
75 ATLAaron : So much for being friends within the alliance. And yes this is fun to watch.
76 777gk : There is no such thing as "loyalty". Continental and Delta compete directly in one of the most important air markets in the world. It's like the Giant
77 SongStar : Anyone got a download of this ad??? would love to see it
78 Tommy767 : The whole debate between NY and NJ is so old and stupid. Face it, EWR is part of the New York Metropolitan Area and a lot of people in NJ commute to N
79 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Brilliant! Definitely, this is very good PR for both of them. Sure, it sounds like they are going at it like enemies, but then again, comparing PR is
80 Post contains images AirCanada014 : I support CO.. If I fly through New York CO has my support and business
81 Max999 : I like that mural. I think it says something along the lines of Delta to the World? Anyone have a picture of it?
82 Alitalia744 : someone has to have a copy of the paper please scan it if you do, would be interesting to see
83 Post contains links Dartland : Here's the mural -- Delta to the World And yes, someone PLEASE find that ad to post.
84 Panamair : When the mural first went up (I think back in 2003 or so), they had a daily trivia game concerning the contents of the mural on delta.com as well..us
85 Travelin man : I know both DL and CO are competitors as well as Alliance partners, but I find it highly unusual that the two are competing against each other so spec
86 Junction : It's always been my understanding that CO was most interested in Skyteam for the synergy benefits of AF/KL more then anything else.
87 Post contains images STT757 : This was in both the New York Times and Wall Street Journal this week, sorry about the photo but I could not fit this full page ad into my scanner.
88 Alitalia744 : Can you scan yesterday's ad from Delta if they put one in?
89 TWFirst : Correct... AF/KL and of course NW... their American alliance partner of choice. The airline they turned to to avoid being taken over by Delta. The ai
90 WorldTraveler : ...which goes to show why DL and CO would have never made good merger partners. Now they GET to compete against each other. If jilted lovers is the he
91 CAL : You never know they could be together again. A merger of the two is not toally out of the question. Who knows whats going to happen in this market. W
92 WorldTraveler : DL wrote off a relationship w/ CO last fall. They have too much overlap in NYC to get a merger approved
93 Alitalia744 : WorldTraveller - you got the ad?
94 CAL : If it need to happen I'm sure a merged DL/CO would be willing to give up the JFK ops to get together if absolutely necessary.
95 DAL767400ER : No chance in hell. Where would they put an additional 100 daily flights at EWR? There's no gate space for that, and there sure as hell are no slots a
96 WorldTraveler : It simply isn't possible to dismantle parts of an airline - any airline - in order to make a merger work. Further, DL has sizable operations at LGA wh
97 Luv2fly : CO Micronisia ring a bell with you?
98 Airzim : Luv2fly, Worldtraveler is delusional. Despite the fact that DL is in bankruptcy, has no public plans on when they'll emerge and yet still believes tha
99 UAL#1fan : I think you mean AA, CO, and UA will be the strongest three airlines, because Delta is more or less of a basket case right now. If Delta meges with a
100 Post contains links and images MalpensaSFO : Continental can deliver 100x over that of Delta on a daily basis: EWR-NRT - Daily 777 EWR-HKG - Daily 777 EWR-PEK - Daily 777 IAH-NRT - Daily 777 HNL
101 DL4EVR : Gee...with as much as you bash DL you should at least know that it's "Delta Air Lines" not "Delta Airlines".
102 WorldTraveler : Malpensa, You obviously are back on your DL bashing wagon which you do in the complete absence of any facts. DL has been #1 or #2 at LGA for years....
103 Klwright69 : This thread is so ridiculous. I have never seen a collection of such old arguments, statements that are absolutely false, ignorance of facts, idiotic
104 Luv2fly : Who would have thought I would say this, thanks! I thought it was just me.
105 WorldTraveler : And I'll repeat, CO has been in bankruptcy twice. If it is insiginificant that CO was there twelve years ago, what is the statute of limitations for i
106 RwSEA : Yes, but they're doing this by pulling planes off routes like EWR-LGW, and sending teeny weeny little 757s across the Atlantic. This might be a short
107 Antoniemey : How about after the entire management team and corporate culture change? After the airline goes form the worst performer in the industry to being amo
108 Planetime : Is Delta going to do anything about their aging terminal in JFK? I know there is some works here and there but anything significant as AA is doing? C
109 WorldTraveler : Planetime, thank you for your honest recognition that AA is not doing what it should be doing in NYC which apparently alot of people on here can't see
110 Commavia : Yeah, just like the last time. We'll see how long this round lasts. Good luck poaching corporate business from AA. It's not that AA has "let DL grow"
111 Luv2fly : Right sized for the markets and the flights are full. No need to flood the market with low fares just to fill the flights. And now both AA and US are
112 SongStar : Getting this thread somewhat back on topic...does anyone out there have a pic of the ad that appeared in the NYT last week..."to our friends in Newark
113 Jumbojet : I've enjoyed reading what everyone has had to say on this topic, whether it be pro delta or con delta, but your comment above is truly ridiculous and
114 Post contains links MalpensaSFO : Try taking a look at the traffic being fed to Continental Micronesia from Honolulu to Guam at 1pm.. When in the past was Delta looking to buy Contine
115 SESGDL : What an idiot. Your hatred of "Delta Airlines" as you always write, which isn't even right, destroys any credibility you have. Someone who speaks suc
116 Delta4eva : Thank you, someone who actually has some credability. Welcome to my respected users list. this thread has become rediculous. please someone post the
117 WorldTraveler : Malpensa, I love it when you open your mouth because you make such a fool of yourself. 1. Honolulu is not on the US mainland... reread the statement.
118 AASTEW : WorldTraveler you keep talking about how AA is not being very competitive, however your not mentioning how AA IS NOT IN BANKRUPTCY. Is it just luck th
119 Luv2fly : CO and NW code share, HELLO! NW's numerous service to all of Asia. Also the code share between CO and AS.
120 DAL767400ER : And? So does Delta, there's no difference in that aspect.
121 WorldTraveler : AA Stew, I've acknowledged that AA is a well run company - just that they are standing still when the race is moving forward. Get the chip off the sho
122 Luv2fly : Yes I know that, I am trying to enlighten someone who misses the obvious!
123 Commavia : No they haven't. Delta is growing, good for them, but they are still a bumble bee on the radar screen compared with AA and MIA to Latin America. Delt
124 Antoniemey : Umm, no. Much as I love CO, to see things clearly, one must be willing to face the real situation. CO was still sinking after their second bankruptcy
125 STT757 : CO has been flying Trans-Atlantic flights from the New York area longer than any other US Airline except perhaps AA, but it's close. CO began flying
126 WorldTraveler : Hello, STT. DL purchased Pan Am's transatlantic routes which were some of the 1st across the Atlantic.... I guess to be accurate London was first and
127 STT757 : DL is not Pan Am, neither is UAL. What I was refering to is the longest continual US Major flying nonstop from the NYC area to Europe, CO has been fl
128 Worldflyer : To all, since this topic is about the Advertising, please note that CO took out its ad in response to DL's current campaign running in NYC, e.g. "thin
129 Commavia : Nobody ever said it was "frivolous," or at least I didn't. I think some were just cautioning that while you seem to assume that DL's immense push int
130 Airzim : Glen hasn't worked for CO for nearly 5 years where he went to Alitalia in the interim. Hardly a shining example of a "turn around" success. I would h
131 WorldTraveler : Airzim, how about you put 5/1/2008 on your calendar and we'll touch base and see how close to right I am? I don't disagree that DL dumped alot of capa
132 Commavia : Actually, no. 53.56% of all of AA's YOY ASM growth in Q1 2005 was from growth across the Atlantic.
133 Airzim : You can quote 2 years all you want, but without a reorganization plan even submitted I'm not sure how you can arbitrarily say "I'll be right;" unless
134 CODC10 : WorldTraveler, I have to ask, are you some kind of prophet? Your schtick is becoming laughable, but I suppose only time will tell. Continental wanted
135 WorldTraveler : DL has been in bankruptcy all of six months. They expect to file a plan or reorganization this fall…. Which would be about 2 years faster than UA di
136 Post contains images FlyPNS1 : Just like last year when you prophesized that DL wouldn't declare bankrutpcy. Your predictions might be taken more seriously if you actually had some
137 CODC10 : I have Thursdays New York Times in front of me, in its entirety. Give me a page number to prove it.
138 CODC10 : Quite to the contrary; I think the truth is you do not understand the industry and thus oversimplify the situation, boiling it down with useless comp
139 Airzim : You're a liar. You wrote SA but I think you meant CO, regardless you said CO wanted to go through Nigeria to South Africa. Then you said you never sa
140 WorldTraveler : Trip costs are fine but in terms of CASM, the 767 beats a 757 every time. And what do you do with the 10K # of cargo minimum you can put on just about
141 777gk : I saw that DL is going with their existing 764 configuration (287 seats) for the JFK-FCO route this summer. While I wouldn't say this is going to be a
142 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Is that at the same time they realized that JFK-NRT, and LAX-NGO would be a good idea? Or was that the time they realized the L1011's needed to get b
143 Alitalia744 : WorldTraveler - want to post the non-existent ad already/
144 Delta787 : There are quite a few destinations on the west coast that Delta serves but not Continental. Plus Continental doesnt have a large western hub like Del
145 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : No Western hub, yet the most nonstops to the New York area from the West Coast!
146 SESGDL : No, AA is not the leader from a number of the markets you listed. MIA/FLL could easily be contested. B6/DL/CO all have a significant market share whi
147 WorldTraveler : The NYT is available in most libraries around the country - just make sure you get a local NYC edition; I'm not sure if the DL ad ran in national edit
148 CODC10 : Lucky for you, I happen to have a metro edition of the New York Times sitting on my desk waiting for you... Now, you were saying? Can we please stop p
149 Slider : Yeah, trip costs are higher on a 767...and all those extra seats means DL has to lower fares to stimulate the market, flooding yet another city pair
150 SESGDL : WTF are you talking about? DL started service to TXL first. Yeah, they're really FLOODING capacity on a route which they operated solely on for awhil
151 Klwright69 : Did you know a CO 777 is still operating on the EWR-LGW for the folks that don't like the 757. So you think most people are flying on CO from PEK, DE
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