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Why A330's And Not 777's!  
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13603 times:

Why Do Most Airlines Now A Days Replace Their Boeing 767’s With A330’s?

For Example KLM, Asiana, Qantas, Air France, Eva Air, Air Europa, Aer Lingus, China Eastern, SAS, LTU, And Most Recently El Al Have All Ordered A330's.

Most Airbus A310 Operators Have Replaced Their A310's With A330's!
So Shouldn’t Of Qantas, Air Europa, China Eastern, SAS, and LTU All Ordered Boeing 777’s Instead?

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOlympicbis From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13573 times:

Because the A330 currently IS the best replacement for the B767.

User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13548 times:

But The Boeing 777 Has Longer Range And It Saves More Fuel Than The A330.

[Edited 2006-04-22 20:51:20]

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13536 times:

The A330 is a great aircraft for many missions.

User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13536 times:

Quoting American777 (Thread starter):
So Shouldn�t Of Qantas, Air Europa, China Eastern, SAS, and LTU All Ordered Boeing 777�s Instead?

the 777 is a fair bit larger then the A330, 767 and A310!



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3206 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13515 times:

with a 777 you would most likely have empty seats, which does not look good for the airline. These airlines do not need 777's. The A330 is a more than capable aircraft for what they need to do at the moment.


Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13479 times:

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 5):
with a 777 you would most likely have empty seats, which does not look good for the airline. These airlines do not need 777's. The A330 is a more than capable aircraft for what they need to do at the moment.

And the 777 is more expensive to buy in the first place.
And I doubt it is more efficient than the 330 per trip, as it's a much larger aircraft. Possibly per seat, but if you don't fill those seats, what's the point of getting the larger aircraft.


User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13438 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 2):
But The Boeing 777 (...) Saves More Fuel Than The A330.

No, it does not.

The A333 is much more economical (about 17 to 19%) than the 772 (ER or not) for a 7-8 hours mission, even on a per seat basis.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineAzza40 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13399 times:

i would guess the 330 fits more into the airlines plans

Aaron  sly 



Not been on here for a good 2/3 years!
User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13362 times:

Both aircraft have their relative merits.

Your profile suggests that there may be a fair few future threads 'bashing' Delta and Airbus! (PS: It's care less, not careless - unless careless was just careless! )

[Edited 2006-04-22 21:23:11]

User currently offlineBritPilot777 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13346 times:

Simple, it comes down to efficiency, the A330 is much more fuel efficient than the Boeing 777 and in the current climate with oil prices etc it makes sense.

BP777



Forever Flight
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13297 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 2):
But The Boeing 777 Has Longer Range And It Saves More Fuel Than The A330.

It's a lot bigger, more expensive to buy, and not that many 767 routes could fill a 777. 777 was never meant to replace 767.

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 7):
The A333 is much more economical (about 17 to 19%) than the 772 (ER or not) for a 7-8 hours mission, even on a per seat basis.

17%-19%......does airbus even claim numbers like that?

I'd need to see some real proof to believe those. I've heard A330 is more economical on shorter trips, and believe that, but never 20% more.

I think basically from now on, the A300/310/330/767 replacement aircraft of choice has become the 787.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineBritPilot777 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13282 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 11):

I think basically from now on, the A300/310/330/767 replacement aircraft of choice has become the 787.

Sorry buddy but I need to see some real proof to believe that!

BP777



Forever Flight
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13282 times:

The smallest member of the 777 family competes directly with the largest member of the A330 family. Boeing originally came up with the 777 for airlines that wanted a plane that was bigger than the 767 but not as big as the 747 (designed around the same time and in the same category as the MD-11 and A340). The A330-200 is a fair bit smaller than the 777-200, in the same area as the 767-400ER. So by replacing a 767-300ER with an A330-200 you are going up a size, where as replacing a 767-300ER with a 777 you are going up a full category.


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13282 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 11):
17%-19%......does airbus even claim numbers like that?

I'd need to see some real proof to believe those. I've heard A330 is more economical on shorter trips, and believe that, but never 20% more.

I've given the sources/explanations before. It's just a widely known fact in the industry. The much lighter frame of the 333 explains most of the difference.

Just do a little search.

 Wink



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6440 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13251 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 2):
But The Boeing 777 Has Longer Range And It Saves More Fuel Than The A330.

Please explain the "Saves more fuel " !!


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13231 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 6):
And the 777 is more expensive to buy in the first place.

bingo. hugely more expensive, slots harder to get, too big as a 767 replacement, less efficient on shorter hops.

there are problems with the 330 though, like a 200 ft wingspan which is much bigger than a 767, making it difficult to fit in all the same gates. but the 777 has no advantage there, either. The A300 and 783 do, however.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13144 times:

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 12):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 11):

I think basically from now on, the A300/310/330/767 replacement aircraft of choice has become the 787.

Sorry buddy but I need to see some real proof to believe that!

Well, the A350 and 787 are the aircraft designed to replace these, and so far 787 is outselling A350 better than 3:1, and there have been calls by clients to throw out A350 and redesign it.

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 14):
I've given the sources/explanations before. It's just a widely known fact in the industry. The much lighter frame of the 333 explains most of the difference.

Just do a little search.

No, its not common knowledge that its 20% more efficient. That it is more efficient on short trips, yes. Not that much more efficient.

The 777's aerodynamics allow it a faster cruise speed (by .04m) and it's MTOW is less than 30,000lbs heavier, under 10%. It also has a slightly higher passenger capacity. If you claimed it was 7-10% more efficient on shorter routes, I'd agree. 20% I don't believe.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineJetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13031 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 2):
But The Boeing 777 Has Longer Range And It Saves More Fuel Than The A330.

Fist off, yes, the 777 does have longer range but having longer range doesn't necessarily mean that it is a fitting replacement for the 767. Most airlines see the A330 a perfect replacement for their older 767's, while other airlines just replace their older 767's with newer 767's. The Boeing 777 is larger, and the 777's size isn't necessarily what an airline wants on their former 762/763 routes.

For more info:

Airbus: http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/productcompare/
Boeing: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_200product.html

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 9):
Your profile suggests that there may be a fair few future threads 'bashing' Delta and Airbus!

Hmm, have you ever flown on Delta (which operates Boeing manufactured aircraft, besides MD-80's, but Boeing bought them too.  Wink) or have you ever been on an Airbus? I do like Boeing better, but that is because I have never been on an Airbus plane because I usually fly airlines that only fly Boeing, or an airline that has an Airbus/Boeing fleet, only has Boeing service from the airport I am flying out of. So you must keep an open mind, buddy. Also, DL is sorting out their problems, and I haven't flown on DL as well, but they used to be a great airline and I expect when they get out of bankruptcy they thrive again. I bet we'll see the "Spirit of Delta" again.

Oh, and welcome to Airliners.net!  Smile



Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1739 posts, RR: 39
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12901 times:

Quoting American777 (Thread starter):
Why Do Most Airlines Now A Days Replace Their Boeing 767's With A330's?

As everyone has said above, the airlines replaced the 767 with the A330 because it was the best aircraft that fit their needs. If an airline needs to replace their planes with a larger aircraft which has more range, are you saying all 747 operators need to go out and buy the A380? By your logic that seems to be what you are suggesting.

After looking at your profile, I am certain that no matter what people tell you here on airliners.net, you will not accept the fact that the A330 was the logical choice for the airlines in question. Any particular reason you hate Airbus so much? AA does fly an Airbus product you know? While you may not see it in Texas it does quite a bit of flying on the East Coast. If anything you should love DL (an all Boeing airline) and "care less" about AA because they fly the "horrendous" Airbus.

SR 103

[Edited 2006-04-22 23:40:45]

User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12855 times:

looking at SR103 response above.
But the airbus is the worst plane that AA has in its' jet fleet. Airbus had to beg AA to keep flying those dreadful AB36. So you knocking of AA77 probably reflect more of your own personal bias.



747SP
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2717 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12839 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 2):
But The Boeing 777 Has Longer Range And It Saves More Fuel Than The A330.

I think you have been spending too much time on Boeings web site.  Smile

By the way. The 777 is a bit larger than the A332 that has been selling like hotcakes. And of course it is more expencive. But for routes where you could fill up the T7 it generates allot of money. For thinner routes a A332 makes more sense. The 767 is even smaller than the A332 so it would be a huge step up to the T7. Now if one should take the Boeing propaganda even further why not buy a 767-400ER enstead of everything else. That to would save allot of money.



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6440 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12839 times:

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 20):
Airbus had to beg AA to keep flying those dreadful AB36.

Could you give us the source of that statement or is it just exagerating?


User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1739 posts, RR: 39
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12729 times:

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 20):
But the airbus is the worst plane that AA has in its' jet fleet. Airbus had to beg AA to keep flying those dreadful AB36.

Do you work for AA? I mean such a statement should not be stated without some evidence.

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 20):
So you knocking of AA77 probably reflect more of your own personal bias.

I personally have no bias towards Boeing or Airbus. However after reading your statement above about AA A300's, you seem to have a few bias opinions of your own.

SR 103


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12729 times:

I may add that even though I have no *real* info; I've heard on this forum that the AB6 is exteremly profitable for AA, hauling tons of cargo & pax into the carribean.
-Mr. X



What now?
25 Post contains images RIHNOSAUR : well, I think there have been some excellent reply's here..so I won't repeat them, but I think that the most obvious reason is that the A330 is just t
26 Post contains images Seanp11 : whatever you want to think, I guess.. [Edited 2006-04-23 00:15:30]
27 Ihadapheo : Sorry but I have to lock this one up as it is getting close to turning into another A vs B battle Sorry IHAP
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