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Allegiant Suspending PSP-LAS  
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3685 times:

Allegiant will suspend service to PSP on May 15. No word if it will return later.

The Fri/Sun flights started in December and have been running at only about 50% load factors. That would be too low for Allegiant under any conditions.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4404 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3685 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Not surprised, Allegiant just probably couldn't compete with a daily HP flight and 3 Skywest Brasillas.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3676 times:

How long has the route been running? Also I would not be surprised if this is just a suspension of service for the summer. The population of Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley drastiacally falls in the summer since it is so hot. So few people go there and flights are empty. I think there is a good chance for the flight to come back around October when tourism in the city picks up again.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3623 times:

When the service was announced I had my serious doubts about its success.

1)The communities are really not that far apart. Can be driven in 3:30'ish
2)Not a natural market from one desert to another
3)PSP is relatively small population wise
4)Folks in PSP if they are looking for casino's have atleast 4-5 nearby choices.
5)Allegiant has no name recognition. At least Skywest has the United name, and America West can funnel you into their network via LAS.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3606 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 1):
Not surprised, Allegiant just probably couldn't compete with a daily HP flight and 3 Skywest Brasillas.

LOL. Boy that speculation popped in fast and I kind of expected that. So when NW pulls out of PSP May 1 every year they can't compete?  Wink

The route started in early December. Although that may have been a good time to get started for Allegiant, the snowbirds don't start arriving until after the holidays. So PSP's numbers pick up in late January.

For example, load factors for AWX's PSP flights to LAS and PHX in December were only 55%, UAX's were only 65% total to LAS, DEN, SFO and LAX.

Since a large part of PSP's winter population comes from elsewhere they won't know about Allegiant's flights until they have been in the area for a while to see the marketing. The numbers I have are for Dec/Jan/Feb. I'm waiting to see what March and April end up looking like.

Also the May 15 date is around the time of year that the snowbirds return home so that fits for seasonal flights. Not as many people want to be in PSP once the average temps top 100 degrees in June.

As I said I haven't heard what G4's plans are to return next winter.

I think PSP is a tough seasonal and marketing problem. It has a growing yearround population but I'm not sure how that translates into passengers for a leisure airline.

Allegiant directly competes nicely at places like COS and FAT. And they seem to be doing well at places like SMX which has competition to LAS 40 miles north at SBP and 40 miles south at SBA.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
1)The communities are really not that far apart. Can be driven in 3:30'ish

That depends on I-10 and I-15. We were in PSP a couple of weeks ago and it took an hour in a bumper to bumper crawl just to go 20 miles.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
2)Not a natural market from one desert to another.
4)Folks in PSP if they are looking for casino's have at least 4-5 nearby choices

I agree about the PSP casinos but Vegas is putting non-compete clauses in some of the casino entertainment contracts these days. That means for example travelling Broadway shows can't play Southern California markets. So you have to go to Vegas for some entertainment pptions.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
3)PSP is relatively small population wise

Most of Allegiant's markets are small. For example, Palm Springs/Palm Desert/Indio and surroundings are about 300,000 permanent residents. That is larger than many Allegiant markets.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
5)Allegiant has no name recognition. At least Skywest has the United name, and America West can funnel you into their network via LAS.

Which is why I think the snowbirds needed time to see and learn about the company.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

Hell, I live near PSP and we drive to LAS since we know the backroads and it doesn't more than 3.5 hours to drive. Never drive on the I-15 and are only on the 10 for ten minutes. This means we never hit traffic.  Smile The G4 fare of $29 each way went to about $156 round trip with taxes and fees. Most people don't seem to like it that they only fly in on Friday and Sunday, if they even know they fly here.

The population is already dropping for the summer, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it return in December or so.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
When the service was announced I had my serious doubts about its success.

1)The communities are really not that far apart. Can be driven in 3:30'ish
2)Not a natural market from one desert to another
3)PSP is relatively small population wise
4)Folks in PSP if they are looking for casino's have atleast 4-5 nearby choices

If all of those were true, then Skywest would not be flying PSP-LAS. I believe that PSP-LAS under the United Express banner is a fully separate flight for Skywest where they assume all liability and receive all revenue. There are a few flights that they operate under United Express like this and have heard that the Skywest contract allows for up to 10% of flying to be like this, but that was a long time ago.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 7):
Hell, I live near PSP and we drive to LAS since we know the backroads and it doesn't more than 3.5 hours to drive. Never drive on the I-15 and are only on the 10 for ten minutes. This means we never hit traffic.

Good to know. I don't always rely just on the fact that a backroad shows on a map so I wasn't sure how good those other roads were. Or are you just heading east to 95 then north?

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 7):
The population is already dropping for the summer, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it return in December or so.

I think having only 50% LFs but staying the whole tourist season instead of pulling out right away as is their pattern elsewhere is interesting and may send a message.

We'll get a better idea how Allegiant viewed the numbers come late fall. If they restart the route that will say something. As I said at the start I haven't heard anything one way or the other.

Personally, I think PSP has some potential as an experimental market for G4. They could run flights to PSP from a few cities around the country in the winter selling golf packages, seeing how their model works somewhere besides Vegas and Orlando.

Also it is close to the Vegas HQ, easily allowing for management to watch experiments with new service ideas. For example, maybe connecting service through LAS only to PSP resorts? Or multi-city packages, 5 nights in LAS, 2 in PSP?

I've been curious about this year's tourist season. We were in PSP 2 weeks ago and it seemed quiet already. Were Feb and March busy?



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
If all of those were true, then Skywest would not be flying PSP-LAS. I believe that PSP-LAS under the United Express banner is a fully separate flight for Skywest where they assume all liability and receive all revenue. There are a few flights that they operate under United Express like this and have heard that the Skywest contract allows for up to 10% of flying to be like this, but that was a long time ago.

I believe the PSP-LAS service risk indeed is borne by Skywest. Similar to them also running FAT-LAS as UAX.
However you have to remember its much easier to fill a 30 seater consistently then an MD-80.
The United network tie in with marketing and Mileage Plus make the Skywest service much more attractive.
Also remember Skywest operates PSP-LAX something like 10 times per day, so it has staff and infrastructure in PSP already to run the incremental services, plus its a simple way to shuffle equipment back and forth between LAX and LAS for its other services.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4404 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3387 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 5):
LOL. Boy that speculation popped in fast and I kind of expected that. So when NW pulls out of PSP May 1 every year they can't compete?

The route started in early December. Although that may have been a good time to get started for Allegiant, the snowbirds don't start arriving until after the holidays. So PSP's numbers pick up in late January.

You said loads have been running at about 50% load factors, which means they would probably get worse this summer. NW loads also drop off in the summer, but I bet they are much better than 50% in the winter.

Let's see:

Major reasons why Allegiant in PSP isn't doing so great:

3/12-4 hour drive from LAS.
Two airlines to compete against.
Higher seat cost per mile because of short length of flight.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineJeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 602 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

It is a seasonal suspension of service. Next winter it will most likely start right back up again. Of course, plans change fast around here so one never knows.

User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 9):
Good to know. I don't always rely just on the fact that a backroad shows on a map so I wasn't sure how good those other roads were. Or are you just heading east to 95 then north?

Honestly, I'm not sure which highways they are. We head up through Joshua Tree, then 29 Palms, then through the Mojave National Preserve. Once you get out in the middle of nothing-ness desert, it's easy to keep up 90-95mph on the narrow, rough roads. German cars.  Wink

Honestly, it's only 20 minutes faster for us than taking the 15, but since you pass maybe 8 cars out in the mojave preserve, there's never traffic. It wouldn't really be any faster for people not here in the valley.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 9):
Were Feb and March busy?

I don't know yet how busy we were this year, but it was definately as busy if not more busy than usual. It seems like the first week of April a lot of people left. It was also looking like it was starting to get hot, so I assume a lot of people got scared and left.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Quoting Jeb94 (Reply 12):
It is a seasonal suspension of service. Next winter it will most likely start right back up again. Of course, plans change fast around here so one never knows.

Thanks Jeb, I haven't seen a press release so I didn't know if this was looked at as a seasonal move. Of course no doubt this year's loads look light, I don't know what the expectations were.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 11):
NW loads also drop off in the summer, but I bet they are much better than 50% in the winter.

NW will pull its service on May 1, they don't operate in the summer to PSP so we don't know what LF would be.

Likewise other seasonal only flights to PSP include:
AS to YVR will end on (I think) April 30.
DL to ATL will end on April 23.
UA to ORD will end on May 3.
AA to ORD will end on June 14.
WestJet will end on April 30.
SunCountry and Harmony I'm don't know their plans.

It has much to do with the market not just Allegiant deciding to pull out. That's why my original post said suspend, I suspected it might be but wasn't sure.

I don't know how G4 views that 50% load factor this year. We'll see what they think in the future about PSP vs. other opportunities.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 13):
I don't know yet how busy we were this year, but it was definately as busy if not more busy than usual. It seems like the first week of April a lot of people left. It was also looking like it was starting to get hot, so I assume a lot of people got scared and left.

We slipped in midweek but leaving late Friday even Easter and White Party didn't seem like they were going to attract many, it was quiet. Temps were about 90, which we appreciated considering the alternative trips we considered were Mendocino or Half Moon Bay which were going to be rainy and cold all that week.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3290 times:

it's heartbreaking to see PSP lose mainline service temporarily. Hopefully, Allegiant will return to PSP. When the Coachella valley population doubles in the next 10 years, it is a possibility that airlines will maintain year-round service in/out of PSP.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 15):
White Party didn't seem like they were going to attract many, it was quiet.

Not true. Speaking of # of people, this year was the biggest White Party, according to recent Desert Sun newspaper article.

[Edited 2006-04-24 03:28:08]


Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

Quoting September11 (Reply 16):
Not true. Speaking of # of people, this year was the biggest White Party, according to recent Desert Sun newspaper article.

Thanks, the first event was on Friday afternoon when my wife and I were leaving and we really did not see many people in the area of the event as we left. They must have been coming in after we left on that Friday.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

This was seasonal service, it was only planned to be seasonal service, the a/c sat on the ground in LAS for over 4 hours as it arrived usually midday and didnt operate again until late night, so, with the winter traffic flow, an obvious F/S quick rotation was tried. It was never planned to operate through the summer season in PSP

User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

This was seasonal service, it was only planned to be seasonal service, the a/c sat on the ground in LAS for over 4 hours as it arrived usually midday and didnt operate again until late night, so, with the winter traffic flow, an obvious F/S quick rotation was tried. It was never planned to operate through the summer season in PSP

User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

Hello all. I've been reviewing the posts on this topic and others concerning PSP, and finally decided to become a member in attempts to reply to some of the comments above concerning the PSP market and Allegiant's short-lived service. I hope to make some sense here.

The Allegiant service was NOT planned to be seasonal, unless that was the internal understanding at headquarters in LAS. The message delivered to the airport and community was that this was to be year-round service. As recently as a week ago, schedules and fares were posted into November for PSP-LAS.

I have questioned what the expectations of the company were for this service since its inception on Dec. 9, primarily because the Sun northbound flight was bound to be a dog. How many people do you fellow forumers know who want to be in LAS for 5nts minimum, because they can't return home until at least Fri? I can stand the place for a max of 3nts, and I've got to get back to reality. A 50% load factor may have, in fact, consisted of strong loads on the Fri-Sun pattern, and light loads on the Sun-Fri pattern. I suspect this to be the case.

A suggestion was offered to consider a midweek trip, on Wed perhaps, to allow for improved performance of both Sun northbound and Fri southbound traffic. That obviously did not happen. Additional frequency was needed in order for that Sun trip to improve (my opinion).

The $29 Introductory One-Way fare would have totaled about $78 including taxes and fees. There were buckets of one-way fares from $39-$99, generally, and typically depended upon advance booking and how those particular buckets were filling up. The $39 fare, if available, was about $98 total with taxes and fees included. Perhaps the customers in the market weren't willing to pay the higher fares, combined with the resistance to book the Sun-Fri service pattern. This double-whammy could have spelled trouble.

As for the distance and drive-time between the two markets, on Fri and Sun, even going via the back roads, there is still that 65mi stretch of I-15 to endure between Nipton Road and "The Strip." As the primary arrival and departure dates for LAS visitors are Fri & Sun (whether by airplane or vehicle), the interstate sees incredibly high demand on those days of week. That said, it can take 3hr or so if you time it right, or it can take 5hr. An accident or some road congestion is all it takes to extend that drive time by quite a bit. The 35min flight on G4 offered an alternative, and worked on the Fri-Sun pattern.

The US* and UA* service on the route largely offers another connecting option for customers needing access to that major carrier's network. The fares in the market have been historically high, and therefore, not much local traffic was carried. Yes, the SkyWest service is an at-risk route, and has been for years.

The PSP catchment area is over 500K year-round residents. This includes all of the Coachella Valley, High Desert, and Banning/Beaumont/Hemet. The Valley alone is at 400K permanent residents now, and growing by 20K annually. With each year, more demand exists for year-round air service. That trend will continue, and seats and flights will rise each summer. Calendar Year 2005 was a record year for pax traffic, reaching 1.42 million, surpassing the record set in the previous year. All indications are that 2006 will be yet another record, as YTD traffic is up 5%. If that rise holds, the Airport will be used by nearly 1.5 million passengers this year.

SY and HQ will both end service within the next week, and both have done very well this season. WJ is performing phenomenally well, and should continue to grow @ PSP each year, both in frequency to existing markets as well as opening n/s service from new cities. It's service can bring an entirely new level of demand for PSP from points north of the border. NW has been seasonal for more than a decade, and seems to be comfortable with that status. At least it still serves PSP, as it exited both RNO & ONT entirely in recent months. UA mainline service cannot operate longer than 6mos without the station operation being staffed by mainline employees, so don't expect to see a flight to PSP to last longer than that. UA could, however, eventually introduce an E170 or CR7 on the PSP-ORD route, as those planes have the n/s range and offer ExPlus service.

I believe AS will grow its year-round service beginning in 2007, as will sister-company QX. Alaska Air Group already carries 1 of 3 passengers @ PSP, and it will remain the most flown operation in the market. AA is operating 2x daily to DFW this summer, up from 1x daily in previous years. UA is now serving SFO year-round with RJs, a market it has not been in for several years. US* resumed year-round LAS on Oct 1, just over 4yrs since the HP* service was discontinued. Also, QX is now year-round to SMF, and is one of the most profitable markets in the carrier's network. These are indicators of improving levels of year-round service for locals and visitors to use or lose.

The stigma still exists that PSP is a seasonal market where no one wants or needs to travel to/from between June-September. The growing population and efforts of the local hospitality industry say otherwise. When the new Sheraton, Hard Rock, Westin, and Remington Las Montanas resorts (among others) open their doors by end of the decade, it will be evident that the valley is not just a part-time place to live and visit.

The potential certainly exists for Allegiant to return, not only from LAS, but also from other cities with a historical appeal for residents to head south and warm up. No airline has truly tested PSP in this way, and G4 may be the right type of carrier to attempt it. Palm Springs is a very well known destination and, though nowhere near the size of MCO or LAS, has a certain cache, history, and appeal that those larger markets don't possess. The amount of press the area receives is substantial, both domestic and international. There is a tremendous opportunity for G4 to expand its presence in the future. So we'll see what happens in 2007. I hope for them to return, and in a more significant way. I don't believe PSP has seen the last of G4. No guarantee, of course, but it's based on more than just a gut feeling.

AAflyguy

[Edited 2006-04-24 16:32:28]

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 19):
The Allegiant service was NOT planned to be seasonal, unless that was the internal understanding at headquarters in LAS. The message delivered to the airport and community was that this was to be year-round service. As recently as a week ago, schedules and fares were posted into November for PSP-LAS.

Allegiant tends to make quickly make changes to maintain profitability. The fact that this was initially implied to be year round but is suspending is part of that. If Allegiant was not considering a return they would say so. In other cities they have had no qualms about saying they are ending service, instead of saying they are suspending the service.

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 19):
There is a tremendous opportunity for G4 to expand its presence in the future. So we'll see what happens in 2007. I hope for them to return, and in a more significant way. I don't believe PSP has seen the last of G4. No guarantee, of course, but it's based on more than just a gut feeling.

I agree, although I don't know how significant the return might be. I would like to see PSP packages offered by Allegiant from midwestern cities but I don't know how responsive the local resorts would be to that.

I was very impressed by the amount of new growth in the Coachella area. It reminds me of the Central Valley and Inland Empire growth. All 3 are basically the major growth areas of California in the future.

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 19):
How many people do you fellow forumers know who want to be in LAS for 5nts minimum, because they can't return home until at least Fri?

Allegiant has a number of routes with a 2 day a week pattern to LAS, including some Fri/Sun. Usually people prefer it to having to take 2 or 3 vacation days. Its how most of their markets start with frequency added as the route grows.

ABI-LAS Mon/Fri
BIL-LAS Mon/Fri
DLH-LAS Wed/Sat
FAR-LAS Mon/Thurs
IDA-LAS Mon/Fri
ILE-LAS Mon/Fri
LRD-LAS Sun/Thurs
LNK-LAS Wed/Sat
MFE-LAS Mon/Fri
BLV-LAS Sun/Thurs
MSO-LAS Sun/Thurs
RAP-LAS Wed/Sat
SMX-LAS Sun/Fri
SHV-LAS Wed/Sat
FOB-LAS Mon/Fri
PSC-LAS Sun/Thurs



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Hi there FATFlyer,

I don't object to a company making decisions to maintain profitability. That makes all the sense in the world when performance isn't meeting the forecast. It's just that I know firsthand the service was to operate year-round, but there were comments made here to the contrary. If it wasn't working as hoped/planned, then make changes, and that's what was done. A big question I still have is how well did they actually expect the other pattern to work, without another frequency? It's not an attractive schedule to stay for such a long time in Vegas.

The up Fri and back Sun was doing remarkably better than the up Sun and back Fri. The former allows for a quick trip with little or no vacation taken, whereas the latter requires an entire week off. Though we have a sizable senior population, retired from the active workforce, it still doesn't mean that there are droves of them who are interested in spending nearly a week in Sin City. I do think the relatively short travel distance also plays a role. The further people travel, the longer they will tend to stay. With this being thought of as a quick hop up to Vegas, the mentality is that you only need (or want) to stay for a couple of nights, and return home. With G4's schedule, you only had one shot to accomplish that: Fri up - Sun back.

PSP was a very different market choice for G4. It was the first, practically, to have some potential interest from the Vegas locals. Ironically, many people seem to think that the two destinations are very similar, yet they are vastly different. One difference would be that PSP tends to be 12-15 degrees warmer in winter than LAS, so much more moderate in temperature. Another would be that PSP is not built around gaming and shows as the major draws. It's more about nature, sporting, nice resorts, good restaurants, a slower/easier lifestyle in SoCal with a Hollywood twist. Basically, it's a relaxing getaway from the everyday. Vegas, on the other hand, is more of a high-energy, shock-to-the-system, over-the-top-experience (which I enjoy being in the midst of 1-2 times a year).

Yes, the local growth is mindboggling. I saw it daily in nearly a decade of living in the area. I just recently relocated. And it's not expected to stop, or even slow considerably, for the foreseeable future. 20,000 new residents a year will result in tremendous changes. The growth is making it a more interesting and attractive place (at least I think so), and is allowing businesses to sustain year-round operation, whereas in the past a multitude of places simply shut their doors for the summer.

I'm not at all expecting G4 to establish a major operation at PSP, but I do think there are a handful of cities in colder climates where there may be sufficient interest and demand for a test of a 3rd focus city (limited). Las Vegas and Orlando were already well known and successful destinations, yet were not well-served from primarily small markets. Palm Springs would be different in that it's a small well-known destination market that is not inaccessible, but more difficult to reach from other small-to-medium points of origin.

The use of "suspending" vs "discontinuing/ending" is a big deal. Maybe they maintain future plans for PSP. Where, however, did you see this information? I've not read a word about it publicly, though I knew it was happening, as you reported yesterday.

Hope you and your wife enjoyed the time there! I miss the place...

AAflyguy


User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
However you have to remember its much easier to fill a 30 seater consistently then an MD-80.

Brilliant statement(not). Enough said.

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 17):
This was seasonal service, it was only planned to be seasonal service, the a/c sat on the ground in LAS for over 4 hours as it arrived usually midday and didnt operate again until late night

What? There are NO Allegiant routings which sit on the ground for 4 hours at any time during the day! You need to verify your info before posting such nonsense.

Rick



natch!!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5814 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 21):
The use of "suspending" vs "discontinuing/ending" is a big deal. Maybe they maintain future plans for PSP. Where, however, did you see this information?

I got that from a contact but I haven't seen a release about it. Since Jeb94 works at Allegiant I would think he is hearing the inside story.

I do see that The Desert Sun had a brief about it this weekend, that newspaper also used the term "suspend". So they may have gotten a press release with that terminology.

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 21):
The up Fri and back Sun was doing remarkably better than the up Sun and back Fri.

Wasn't there also talk that G4 was planning on Vegas locals doing weekends in PSP on the Fri to Palm Springs/Sun to LAS flights?

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 21):
Yes, the local growth is mindboggling.

Even Indio. Wow who would have thought. It is like the Central Valley, developers are looking at some of the very small towns that mainly housed farm labor. For example, Earlimart and Goshen on Highway 99 both have discussions about large new housing tracts to take advantage of infrastructure already in place.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

FATFlyer, thanks for that info. I check the newspaper's website almost daily, and that day I neglected to click on the Business Briefs link, under which the suspension announcement was mentioned. I was just one click away!

You are correct in that there was a plan to get more Vegas locals to make use of the new service. Keep in mind that G4 had never really done any marketing in its hometown, because the emphasis was on bringing people in. And for the most part, Vegas sells itself. As I understand it, there were a couple of efforts to raise the level of awareness of the new PSP link, but there was not a coordinated effort established between the airline and local tourism organizations. If it returns next winter, perhaps that will take precedence and the marketing effort can begin well in advance. It may require a cohesive plan to educate Vegas residents about what is different and special about Palm Springs vs the city they call home. If that happens ahead of time, more may "GET IT," and come down to check it out.

Indio is the largest city in the Valley, and will top 100K residents by 2010. Remarkable, especially when viewing all the growth occurring above I-10 in North Indio. Thousands upon thousands of acres are being developed with residential and commercial projects. I'll get a true birds eye view this week when I swoop back into town for a few days, on AA, of course.

Did you see the renderings for the new Agua Caliente Resort: http://www.thedesertsun.com/apps/pbc...D=/20060418/NEWS06/604180307/1012. Somewhat off topic, yes, but a sign of change. Soon to rise along I-10 at Ramon.


25 Flyboy7974 : ATCRick - I actually am looking for and doing a search, but I thought you were the source that said the a/c comes into Vegas late afternoon, and it wa
26 ATCRick : It wasn't me flyboy. There are no 4 hour layover routes at Allegiant. Sorry.
27 AAflyguy : I do believe that when G4 was initially looking at PSP, it was because there was an aircraft that had time to do the quick turn down and back before i
28 Post contains links and images FATFlyer : Rick, How are you feeling?? Do I have mail?????? I don't usually check the Desert Sun and the article didn't come in from my news reader. But when I d
29 Jeb94 : There are many factors besides just load factor that could cause a termination or suspension of service including the seasonal weather conditions, run
30 ATCRick : [quote=AAflyguy,reply=21]The up Fri and back Sun was doing remarkably better than the up Sun and back Fri. The former allows for a quick trip with lit
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