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Lufthansa To Sell Thomas Cook  
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6074 times:

The German Handelsblatt reports that LH has apparently decided to sell off its 50% stake in Thomas Cook to Karstadt Quelle and to re-integrate Condor back fully into the Lufthansa Group. The deal is due to be closed within the coming weeks.

Source: http://handelsblatt.de/pshb/fn/relhb...stadt-greift-nach-thomas-cook.html (German Only)

English language link: http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxn...0&subject=companies&action=article

What do you think about this move? It certainly comes as a surprise.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6053 times:

No, it is no surprise.

Lufthansa allways had the problem that they couldn´t decide everything by their own without asking the tour operator.

For me it makes perfect sense.

The low cost airlines will face a vry hard competiton from the LH Group with Condor,Germanwings and LH itself offering aggressive prizes.

Maybe we will see a merge of Germanwings and Condor very soon...

 Smile Johnny


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6039 times:

I think it makes a lot of sense. LH should concentrate on being an airline and not distract themselves with side ventures.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6033 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
LH should concentrate on being an airline and not distract themselves with side ventures.

Actually, that is one of the things that hurt United. By divesting of their vast holdings, including Hertz and Westin, they were able to spread the risk over a much smaller array of markets.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5911 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 1):
Lufthansa allways had the problem that they couldn´t decide everything by their own without asking the tour operator.

But then why did LH combine DE with Karstadt-Quelle's NUR Touristic to form what eventually became TCX in the first place?


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
Actually, that is one of the things that hurt United. By divesting of their vast holdings, including Hertz and Westin, they were able to spread the risk over a much smaller array of markets.

What is the antecedent of "that"? What hurt United? Ownership of Hertz and Westin? Or divestiture of Hertz and Westin?


User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

Will Condor revert back to its old yellow colour scheme? Will it be an independent charter airline, remain an exclusive operator for Thomas Cook, turn in to a low-cost long-haul airline, or a combination of charter/long-haul low-cost?

Quoting Johnny (Reply 1):
Maybe we will see a merge of Germanwings and Condor very soon...

Would that be a wise idea, to combine a successful short-haul low-cost, with a charter/semi low-cost long-haul airline?



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5742 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
What is the antecedent of "that"? What hurt United? Ownership of Hertz and Westin? Or divestiture of Hertz and Westin?

Divestiture. Vertical travel integration is something that needs to be looked at again, particularly since the costs of propulsion are getting so high.

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 6):
Will Condor revert back to its old yellow colour scheme?

Well, they are already reverting to Condor branding



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Well, they are already reverting to Condor branding

Yes, 'Thomas Cook' has been removed from the fuselage and replaced by 'Condor', but they still have the Thomas Cook colors, as well as the Thomas Cook logo on the tail.

[Edited 2006-04-24 11:31:08]


Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineAerosol From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

I think they will shift Condor Short Haul equipment to Germanwings and concentrate Condor on the longhaul charter market.

Say good bye to LTU/DBA in the long term!

Everything just speculation  Smile


User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

LH denies the report by Handelsblatt. still, i think they will sell TC to Karstadt sooner or later.

Condor will not revert to yellow color scheme (which is a pity that they don't do that), but keep Condor titles.

I thought as well that Germanwings should take over DE's short haul routes. current interviews by DE officials indicate the contrary, they will keep it. anyway, the cooperation between both is set to grow closer as they have linked their websites and sell each other flights.



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineDj1986 From Luxembourg, joined Apr 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

I don't think LH would brand the short haul operations of DE into Germanwings because the Condor brand name is more widely known and has a good reputation.


on strike! finally VC!
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Interesting move, though just exactly how is Karstadt supposed to finance that deal? It's not like they have lots of money to spend currently.

User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5308 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Thread starter):
The German Handelsblatt reports that LH has apparently decided to sell off its 50% stake in Thomas Cook to Karstadt Quelle and to re-integrate Condor back fully into the Lufthansa Group. The deal is due to be closed within the coming weeks.

What affect would this have on Thomas Cook in the UK/Belgium?
Are they owned by the same company...

Interesting times ahead and possibly some different planes
to look for in the part of the world!

cheers
Keith
Lanzarote
Spain



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 6):
Will Condor revert back to its old yellow colour scheme?

Have not some of the planes recently been painted Blue from Yellow.
Plus also A320 D-AICN has just jointed the fleet....

Who will operate planes for Karstadt then????

cheers



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 14):
Have not some of the planes recently been painted Blue from Yellow.

Not really. Those planes had merely the taillogo and titles changed because they were painted before the re-branding to Thomas Cook powered by Condor, but then got the fuse titles changed back to Condor because the previous re-branding was a fiasco. The Condor brand is much stronger in Germany than anyone tends to think, which is why re-branding it didn't work. But I wonder that if DE is fully re-integrated back into the LH Group, if they'll at least revert their taillogo back to the old Condor bird.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
But I wonder that if DE is fully re-integrated back into the LH Group, if they'll at least revert their taillogo back to the old Condor bird.

I would hope so



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5094 times:

do you think this would cause some changes to the fleet as well? If LH incorporates the fleet, i am pretty sure they aren't a huge fan of 2 aircraft types (757, 767) that they don't originally have in their fleet...


- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4993 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 12):
how is Karstadt supposed to finance that deal? It's not like they have lots of money to spend currently.

I am not 100% sure but I think that I heard in the radio news a few weeks ago that Karstadt sold all their real estate to an American company, that should have filled up their bank accounts.

Patrick


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 17):
do you think this would cause some changes to the fleet as well? If LH incorporates the fleet, i am pretty sure they aren't a huge fan of 2 aircraft types (757, 767) that they don't originally have in their fleet...

That wasn't a problem before when DE was still fully owned by LH. In fact, sometime in the mid 90's LH even leased one of those DE 767s. And also, DE operated the DC-10 even after LH retired them. I believe they even got some ex LH aircraft. Lufthansa retired their trijets around 1992, while DE retired them sometime between 1999 and 2000.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4857 times:

IIRC LH was very upset with DE starting low cost flights from MUC to various European cities. Maybe LH wanted to stop these guys potentially eroding LH´s yields.

If the airline will disappear, I´m sure the A320s will go to 4U or to LH, while the 753s and 763s will be sold, with a nice profit especially for the 763.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 20):
If the airline will disappear, I´m sure the A320s will go to 4U or to LH, while the 753s and 763s will be sold, with a nice profit especially for the 763.

I personally doubt DE will ever disappear. If, then they'll probably go back to what they were and focus almost exclusively on holiday flights.


User currently offlineTCXDegsy From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 518 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4727 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 8):
Yes, 'Thomas Cook' has been removed from the fuselage and replaced by 'Condor', but they still have the Thomas Cook colors, as well as the Thomas Cook logo on the tail.



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
Not really. Those planes had merely the taillogo and titles changed because they were painted before the re-branding to Thomas Cook powered by Condor, but then got the fuse titles changed back to Condor because the previous re-branding was a fiasco. The Condor brand is much stronger in Germany than anyone tends to think, which is why re-branding it didn't work. But I wonder that if DE is fully re-integrated back into the LH Group, if they'll at least revert their taillogo back to the old Condor bird.

LTU is correct - The Thomas Cook name was changed back to Condor almost within a year of the change. Germans related more to Condor, and so it's Condor, powered by Thomas Cook.

This is all news to me about LH looking to sell, as they stated late last year they wanted to hold onto their stake, Now that TCAG is back in profit and has ambitions profit targets for the next few years, it's surprising LH is allegedly looking to drop out. TCUK alone this year is aiming for £100m profit in 2005/06!



next flights: BA1441 0566 0581 1446 EDI-LHR-MXP-LHR-EDI
User currently offlineLH463 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4622 times:

I think LH should just buy out all the airlines and even the German railway system (DB) and become a massive monopoly within the German transportation industry. Then without any competition they will be able to charge outrageous prices  Wink


Turning final...
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting TCXDegsy (Reply 22):
This is all news to me about LH looking to sell, as they stated late last year they wanted to hold onto their stake, Now that TCAG is back in profit and has ambitions profit targets for the next few years, it's surprising LH is allegedly looking to drop out. TCUK alone this year is aiming for £100m profit in 2005/06!

What about TCX Belgium, while we're at it?

I have a question, though slightly OT: I know that JMC Air was part of what Eventually became TCX UK, but how was it in the case of TCX Belgium? Was it an airline that was rebranded to TCX or simply a startup?


25 Post contains images TCXDegsy : TCX OT was a start-up as far as I know. It wasn't a rebrand. Just a little clarification re JMC - it wasn't part of what became TCX. JMC was the comp
26 TriStar500 : They were a completely new enterprise, which received its AOC in March 2002.
27 PADSpot : How important is that?? Most passengers on board have booked some some sort package tour with some tour operator anyway. They have booked the tour an
28 HMUcfm56 : yep, they sold them for approx. 4,5 billion euros which made karstadt debtless. I am sure there are "some millions" left after satisfying the credito
29 TriStar500 : That's where you are totally wrong. As the "Thomas Koch powered by Condor" -disaster has proven, the typical German charter tourist shows an almost u
30 LTU932 : Brand recognition is very important. Like Tristar 500 and I mention, the Thomas Cook powered by Condor fiasco shows that people will not only choose
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