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Westjet At SFO: What Happened?  
User currently offlineFreedomtofly From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 750 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Today I was looking at the WestJet website and they no longer serve SFO. Now I must have missed something because not too long ago I was seeing their 737's flying in. So, what happened?

Aaron


You are now free to move about the world.
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

IIRC, it was due to terrible loads on the SFO-YYC flights. I'm not really in the know, but that is what I think happened.

-Copa


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6153 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

First, from what I heard because they didn't serve the route daily. Its much harder to get the business traveller if you don't run a flight daily. Second was that SFO was an expensive airport for them to fly into. I know SFO is, but they must fly into others that are just as bad. And I'm guessing they just didn't have the demand.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 1):
IIRC, it was due to terrible loads on the SFO-YYC flights. I'm not really in the know, but that is what I think happened.



Quoting AS739X (Reply 2):
First, from what I heard because they didn't serve the route daily. Its much harder to get the business traveller if you don't run a flight daily. Second was that SFO was an expensive airport for them to fly into. I know SFO is, but they must fly into others that are just as bad. And I'm guessing they just didn't have the demand.

That's pretty sums it up...........

Cheers,


User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

I wonder could WS have served Oakland from YYC or from other points in Canada (ie YYZ or YVR) and made a profit?

User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 4):
I wonder could WS have served Oakland from YYC or from other points in Canada (ie YYZ or YVR) and made a profit?

On there own right now I do not think so, the WS brand recognition is not that big in the USA yet but if they could join an alliance maybe they could or a
smaller aircraft.....

Cheers,


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3391 times:

They also dropped YYZ-LAX.


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

Also YYZ-LGA flights  Smile


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineRdwelch From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 6):
They also dropped YYZ-LAX.

When did that happen?

Gus


User currently offlineWJA737 From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

We are to go back into SFO form YYC,and YYZ. We are also looking at JFK.

WJA 737


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Quoting WJA737 (Reply 9):
We are to go back into SFO form YYC,and YYZ.

When is this going to happen? That would be awesome. It was great seeing WestJet at SFO, miss seeing them there. What's the timetable? It would also be great to see another carrier on the SFO-YYZ route.

-Copa


User currently offlineFreedomtofly From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 750 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

Thanks for all the info! Hopefully we can get a few WS birds back into SFO.

Aaron



You are now free to move about the world.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 6):
They also dropped YYZ-LAX.

And LAX-YVR.. Only LAX-YYC remains.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

I think WS has a big problem on U.S. destinations and it is named Aeroplan. If AC doesn't fly it then UA does. It would be interesting to know the percentage of the Canadian frequent flyer market controlled by Aeroplan. I would guess something in excess of 80%. I have family and friends who fly on business regularly in Canada and they are all Aeroplan members. The continued accumulation of these points keeps them very loyal!!

User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

I do know that WJ's service to PSP performed incredibly well this winter. The load factor was above 90% (in Mar) for the 4x weekly service to both YYC & YVR. I'm sure there is a significant challenge, not only with the AC/UA "STAR Alliance" but also with Open Skies in general. I mean, until a decade ago, there was so little competition transborder. But the product WJ offers is very different than that of AC, and the fact that it offers a single-class of service and seatback Live TV are part of that differentiation. I would hope that the airline receives tremendous support for its product, because without it, I suspect fares within Canada and in competitive transborder markets would be much higher than exists today.

WJ will survive and thrive with some transborder markets, and those that are not performing at or near forecast are likely to be discontinued, as we've seen happen several times over the last year. PSP has a bright future with expanded WJ service, I believe. Wonder if AC will wake up and decide to provide some Canadian competition? I think we'll find out next winter.


User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Another problem with WJ's SFO service was that the fare to YYC and points beyond was not competitive.

I was flying back and forth from SFO to YYC for work last year. UA/AC, DL and AS were always significantly cheaper. The frequency of flights were also a problem. Because the service wasn't daily, ther was less flexibility. Both UA and AC operate daily flights, and AS multiple daily services via SEA.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 14):
PSP has a bright future with expanded WJ service,

I would not connect PSP with true transborder service to destinations like LAX & SFO.
PSP is basically a charter operation which has been operated going back many years by Canadian carriers. (Remember Canada 3000) Matter of fact Westjet has a contract to fly to several such destinations (mostly Florida, Carrib, Mexico) on behalf of Air Transat Holiday whom takes the risk to fill the seats.
http://www.transat.com/en/media_centre/2.0.media.centre.asp?id=891

Westjet's success with its own scheduled US services, have really been inconsistent.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 14):
Wonder if AC will wake up and decide to provide some Canadian competition? I think we'll find out next winter.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility to see Jazz in PSP one day even if its on a seasonal basis.


User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2737 times:

Laxintl, I remember Canada 3000, and Royal, and Air Transat, and even WestJet, all of which have offered charter service to PSP. That is no longer the case, however, nor has it been for some time. WestJet has no contract in place to put butts in seats on its PSP operation. The risk in operating the PSP service falls 100% on the company, not a 3rd party. The PSP market is much smaller than those major ones you mention, however, it is no less significant in the context of being considered a successful transborder market. I somewhat feel that the reason for a revenue passenger taking a trip is irrelevant. If they're paying, and the operator's bottom line is being met and/or exceeded, then it is supporting itself. The 4x weekly service from both YYC & YVR with WJ was more than a doubling of capacity for the airline over the previous/initial season, and HQ also operated 2x weekly B757s coupled with AS 5x weekly, both from YVR.

DFORCE1, I do expect that AC will be represented in PSP, and I expect it sooner than later. I say by 2008, its customers will be able to reach the desert on AC metal, not just aboard Star Alliance partner UA. The CRJ 705 and EMB jets are what will make this service viable.

This market is currently a seasonal one, specifically speaking on transborder demand. However, the local PSP area is growing rapidly, by more than 20,000 annually. Dependent upon the type of equipment and seats in the market, it could be sustained year-round in the future (3-5 years out).


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2723 times:

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 18):
.

Canada 3000 similarly operated scheduled service to PSP towards the end.
Essentially what has happened are the PSP, LAS, PHX, most of Florida which were bastions of Canadian charter operations are simply being marketed as scheduled service. There is little risk involved, as the destiantions have predictable snowbird traffic.

The true test of WestJet transborder strategy are the battles in the real markets such as LA, SFO, NYC where the carrier must battle for each and every passenger while also defending itself from a host of competing carriers.
Regretfully WestJet has not done a very good job to date.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

How do you guys think Harmony is gonna do on OAK and JFK ?  Smile


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
How do you guys think Harmony is gonna do on OAK and JFK ?

Can't really say how JFK will do, as I don't know the specifics of that market, but I believe the OAK service will be fairly successful, as it is only 2x weekly. JFK will probably do fairly well too, as I don't believe there is that much, if any n/s service between YVR and JFK.

-Copa


User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 4):
I wonder could WS have served Oakland from YYC or from other points in Canada (ie YYZ or YVR) and made a profit?

I guess we'll soon find out with Harmony on the YVR-OAK route twice weekly. Should do alright although I feel a 737 is better suited than a 757. But maybe Harmony will build some brand loyalty, it's likely to be the only carrier between BC and California where a meal is served.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 21):
Can't really say how JFK will do, as I don't know the specifics of that market, but I believe the OAK service will be fairly successful, as it is only 2x weekly. JFK will probably do fairly well too, as I don't believe there is that much, if any n/s service between YVR and JFK.

I'm a little hesitant to make predictions on OAK as I don't know much about it but with only twice weekly service, they should have a reasonable chance of making a go at it.

As for JFK, AC operates the only service between YVR and JFK which is once daily. I think Harmony will fit in nicely. Business travellers will enjoy Harmony's outstanding service and although no PTV's, they do offer meals and Harmony One looks outstanding. Perhaps maybe even better than AC's Executive class. Has anyone been on either Harmony One and AC Executive? What's the comparison?


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