AA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1418 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 107143 times:
It looks alot like a really big sonic cruiser to me. Is this brand new information? This is by far the first I've heard of anything like this. I thought the 797 was going to be a replacement for the 737 in the low to mid 100 passenger market. I thought the 808 would be maybe a 773/748 replacement, but was subject to seeing the success of the A380. I am not toally convinced the A380 will be a success, and certainly not with 2 aircraft designs in that niche market. I appreciate the post, but forgive my skepticism about the information.
Mainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 107091 times:
Seeing as it appears in Boeing's old house colors, I'm thinking this is an old design (it reminds me a lot of an old McDD blended wing-body design I saw a model of a few years back). I don't see it happening. Besides, I was also under the impression that the 797 was going to be the 737 replacement.
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12976 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 107057 times:
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Please you have got to be kidding. The B797 design would have to be IMO even more uglier then the A380, let alone totally costaphobic (sorry about the spelling) for the middle row passengers. No way in hell would Boeing even build that. There is no need to build an A380 competitior yet because only a select few airlines will require a 550+ seater, hence the so far confirmed orders
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3604 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 106981 times:
This is hard to believe. Boeing has not released this information on its own website. Was that article written by a high school student? Did Boeing all of a sudden drop the 747-8? The 797 will not be a blended wing seating 1000 seats. Love how the pictures are in 1990s Boeing in-house colors and not in the new colors.
As discussed here. The blended wing has advantages, but for the passengers...not the best option. Those in the center seats would be okay but if you are in one of the outside rows and the plane banks...bye bye luggage and lunch.
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 106928 times:
It is true that Phantom Works has been researching such a plane. However, it is still very much a back room side show along with hundreds of other projects, the vast majority of which will die in quiet obscurity. Nobody except the authors of the article call the BWB a 797. That name makes it sound like it will be offered for sale tommorow.
They make similar misleading statements about other new technology products. They put things ready to market next to things that are barely even being planned, and do nothing to tell the reader the difference. That is misleading and sensationalistic.
Cessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 106718 times:
Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): but for the passengers...not the best option. Those in the center seats would be okay but if you are in one of the outside rows and the plane banks...bye bye luggage and lunch.
Hey! You bring an important point here! Since NW has started charging for emergency exit seats, why not maket these seats as... oh... say "stabili-seats". YES! For an extra nominal $199+fuel surcharge-of-the-day, you can get your own center seat featuring almost no rocking whatsoever! Nice!
Saturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 106668 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 7): And yes its the old Sonic Cruiser design
Yes, it is a very, very old Sonic Crusier design, the latest Sonic Cruiser (before Boeing dropped it) looked in fact considerably different.
Blended body is not such a hot and desirable design as originally thought - those who read FLYING magazine know what I am talking about. There was a highly technical article on this topic.
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 106220 times:
Boeing's next two projects are Y1 and Y3, the Y1 being the 737RS, and the Y3 being some long-term 747 / 777 replacement. Since the 747-8 is still under development, the Y1 will obviously come out long before the Y3. Y2 is the 787. The whole Y1-Y2-Y3 series is Boeing's plan to simplify its offerings into three basic types, narrowbody (currently the 717 and 737, and until recently the 757), small widebody (currently the 767), and large widebody (currently 747 and 777).
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 105997 times:
One inherent design problem with these flying wing designs is the safety issue of how to evacuate all the passengers in an emergency. It would probably have to have more than 5 aisles which is an awfully long way from the exit if you are seated in the centre.
Its like the problem with building extremely tall buildings. One of the main easons that it is not economically feasible to build mile high skyscrapers is not that they are difficult to build, but that The more floors you add, the more the lower floors are good for nothing but gaining access to the upper floors & providing services like water plants, electricity stations etc.
In its original studies for the A380, Airbus examined the possibility of mating two A340 fuselages side by side but rejected it on safety grounds related to evacuation issues.
Oly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 7152 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 105878 times:
If flying wings were that great then they'd be flying passengers now. There are a number of problems for the manufacturers, the biggest being that it can't be a family aircraft with different length fuselages (though the 747-400 is the exception). I think the whole concept is restricted to a particular size of aircraft and that's big. You won't get a flying wing replacing the B737/A320 series, or the B767/A330 series so it's only a huge aircraft that will work. And is there the market for this and the A380?
The engines can't be buried on an aircraft such as this because, being at the back of the aircraft, the incoming airflow would be awful (due to the fuselage boundary layer.) So thay have to be on pylons. I can't imagine having B2 style intakes at the leading edge either, especially for high bypass engines.
There is the issue of airline psychology. The history of civil aviation has been that of a long tube with wings on the side. A flying wing is just too different for any airline to risk investing, especially with the likely costs involved.
There are also other issues such as the passenger psychology of being in a closed box with very few windows and, as pointed out, the evacuation arrangements.
SparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 105504 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16): The engines look like after thoughts, you would think they would blend them into the body, instead of creating all that drag?
The engines are out of the body for good reason - first, if one explodes, then the damage is away from the wing. Blended in the wing, this would make the plane vulnerable. Second, the design pulls air over and under the wing, helping to create lift.
Quoting Oly720man (Reply 21): There are also other issues such as the passenger psychology of being in a closed box with very few windows and, as pointed out, the evacuation arrangements.
There's already a middle section in most aircraft away from the windows. It wouldn't be that different. Also, "synthetic" simulated windows could be installed, namely large monitors in the back of each seat, with views of the outside provided by installed exterior cameras.
With all the space provided by the blended wing, this opens up new possibilities for arranging seats, other than the row arrangment seen in the previous designs.
What's not mentioned is that this design can be tweaked to make the ultimate "combi" arrangment, leaving airlines to mix cargo with passengers.
As for escape routes, emergency stairwells could be installed from the passenger deck through the top of the aircraft, as well as the sides.
I don't believe that this is a serious design that will be offered by Boeing, but it's fun to look at again and explore its potential.
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
DeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 105125 times:
This can hardly be true. First of all, didn't Boeing announce themselves, they were'nt even going to look into developing a plane bigger then the 748 for the next 10 years?
Anyway, I thought Boeing stated the 797 is going to be a 737 secessor, that would make so much more sense.
At last but not least, the image is in Boeing's old house colors, which just showes it IS old news.
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
: Even is this story is true which I dont think so, wont there be problems with the evacuation. They evacuate a lot of passengers in 90 secs? Regards
: It is indeed true that Boeing/Phantom works/Nasa have been studying this concept . However , I doubt very much that this is true at this time . I beli
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-48 The X-48 is an experimental aircraft currently under development by Boeing and NASA for investigation into th
: This is the biggest joke I've seen in my life. IMHO its even stupider than the A380 looks and everyone complains about 800 pax on a A380, and look, 10
: Suppose such a design will eventually make it. How are we gonna load baggage and cargo on such an a/c? Probably not like the conventional way with AKE
: I don't know why this thread disappeared yesterday then reappeared without my post. Anyway, here is a better image of what they are thinking. 2nd try.
: I see this project s recieved Illegal governement aid from the US government via Nasa for this design ?
: Are you being sarcastic? If you didnt know, NASA research is available to Airbus too. Here is an example: http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Concept2Reali
: It still wouldn't be the same, and passegers would know it. It's also not natural sunlight. All that stuff runs together psychologically speaking.
: Anyone care to guess how much work would need to be done at airports to accept this aircraft, if it existed? I don't think the ramp area at most airpo
: My guess would be none, its the same wingspan as a 380 and it has doors just like any other plane. To say this is preposterous is like saying the A-3
: I believe the A380 is using two jetways for disembarking, and with this proposed unit, the flared design might make that more difficult that a "tradi
: I wouldn't get on a plane that doesn't have windows and I think most passengers share my view....
: It wouldnt be seemless, niehter was the 380. But, I seriously doubt that anything you mention would be a problem. The guys at Boeing and Airbus are p
: First thing I thought of when I read this thread was that pic from a popular mechanics magazene I used to have. That article is... dumb. No direct qu
: So this in fact has been kicked around by Boeing's think tank Phantom Works for a while. http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2004/april/cover
: In other news, Bombardier and Embraer had joined together in an unprecedented move to corner the intergalactic fighter aircraft market, with a new gen
: Are there any truth to this???? This sounds too good to be true!