AA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 827 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 68463 times:
It looks alot like a really big sonic cruiser to me. Is this brand new information? This is by far the first I've heard of anything like this. I thought the 797 was going to be a replacement for the 737 in the low to mid 100 passenger market. I thought the 808 would be maybe a 773/748 replacement, but was subject to seeing the success of the A380. I am not toally convinced the A380 will be a success, and certainly not with 2 aircraft designs in that niche market. I appreciate the post, but forgive my skepticism about the information.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4352 posts, RR: 46 Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 68411 times:
be skeptic - it's not true.
the next a/c to come out of boeing after the 787-dreamliner is the y1 project
Mainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 68411 times:
Seeing as it appears in Boeing's old house colors, I'm thinking this is an old design (it reminds me a lot of an old McDD blended wing-body design I saw a model of a few years back). I don't see it happening. Besides, I was also under the impression that the 797 was going to be the 737 replacement.
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 10024 posts, RR: 23 Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 68377 times:
Please you have got to be kidding. The B797 design would have to be IMO even more uglier then the A380, let alone totally costaphobic (sorry about the spelling) for the middle row passengers. No way in hell would Boeing even build that. There is no need to build an A380 competitior yet because only a select few airlines will require a 550+ seater, hence the so far confirmed orders
Don't forget to check out my youtube movies in my profile!
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 68301 times:
Quoting Mainliner (Reply 3): (it reminds me a lot of an old McDD blended wing-body design I saw a model of a few years back).
Exactly my thoughts.
Secondly, while there are always wild ideas going around in a company, don't expect this to come out (if it ever comes out) any time soon.
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3444 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 68301 times:
This is hard to believe. Boeing has not released this information on its own website. Was that article written by a high school student? Did Boeing all of a sudden drop the 747-8? The 797 will not be a blended wing seating 1000 seats. Love how the pictures are in 1990s Boeing in-house colors and not in the new colors.
As discussed here. The blended wing has advantages, but for the passengers...not the best option. Those in the center seats would be okay but if you are in one of the outside rows and the plane banks...bye bye luggage and lunch.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 8142 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 68248 times:
I thought blended wing designs for commerical aircraft would produce uncomfortable rides, mostly for the passengers further away from the center longitudial axis.
I don't believe this web site, did you read the story on NASA's antimatter engine powered spacecraft? The poistron reactor engine will get you to Mars in only 45 days.
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 68248 times:
It is true that Phantom Works has been researching such a plane. However, it is still very much a back room side show along with hundreds of other projects, the vast majority of which will die in quiet obscurity. Nobody except the authors of the article call the BWB a 797. That name makes it sound like it will be offered for sale tommorow.
They make similar misleading statements about other new technology products. They put things ready to market next to things that are barely even being planned, and do nothing to tell the reader the difference. That is misleading and sensationalistic.
Cessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1319 posts, RR: 30 Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 68038 times:
Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): but for the passengers...not the best option. Those in the center seats would be okay but if you are in one of the outside rows and the plane banks...bye bye luggage and lunch.
Hey! You bring an important point here! Since NW has started charging for emergency exit seats, why not maket these seats as... oh... say "stabili-seats". YES! For an extra nominal $199+fuel surcharge-of-the-day, you can get your own center seat featuring almost no rocking whatsoever! Nice!
Saturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 67988 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 7): And yes its the old Sonic Cruiser design
Yes, it is a very, very old Sonic Crusier design, the latest Sonic Cruiser (before Boeing dropped it) looked in fact considerably different.
Blended body is not such a hot and desirable design as originally thought - those who read FLYING magazine know what I am talking about. There was a highly technical article on this topic.
COEWR777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 428 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 67820 times:
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 8142 posts, RR: 51 Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 67597 times:
The engines look like after thoughts, you would think they would blend them into the body, instead of creating all that drag?
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 67540 times:
Boeing's next two projects are Y1 and Y3, the Y1 being the 737RS, and the Y3 being some long-term 747 / 777 replacement. Since the 747-8 is still under development, the Y1 will obviously come out long before the Y3. Y2 is the 787. The whole Y1-Y2-Y3 series is Boeing's plan to simplify its offerings into three basic types, narrowbody (currently the 717 and 737, and until recently the 757), small widebody (currently the 767), and large widebody (currently 747 and 777).
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 10106 posts, RR: 68 Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 67393 times:
EI321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 67317 times:
One inherent design problem with these flying wing designs is the safety issue of how to evacuate all the passengers in an emergency. It would probably have to have more than 5 aisles which is an awfully long way from the exit if you are seated in the centre.
Its like the problem with building extremely tall buildings. One of the main easons that it is not economically feasible to build mile high skyscrapers is not that they are difficult to build, but that The more floors you add, the more the lower floors are good for nothing but gaining access to the upper floors & providing services like water plants, electricity stations etc.
In its original studies for the A380, Airbus examined the possibility of mating two A340 fuselages side by side but rejected it on safety grounds related to evacuation issues.
Oly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 4859 posts, RR: 12 Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 67198 times:
If flying wings were that great then they'd be flying passengers now. There are a number of problems for the manufacturers, the biggest being that it can't be a family aircraft with different length fuselages (though the 747-400 is the exception). I think the whole concept is restricted to a particular size of aircraft and that's big. You won't get a flying wing replacing the B737/A320 series, or the B767/A330 series so it's only a huge aircraft that will work. And is there the market for this and the A380?
The engines can't be buried on an aircraft such as this because, being at the back of the aircraft, the incoming airflow would be awful (due to the fuselage boundary layer.) So thay have to be on pylons. I can't imagine having B2 style intakes at the leading edge either, especially for high bypass engines.
There is the issue of airline psychology. The history of civil aviation has been that of a long tube with wings on the side. A flying wing is just too different for any airline to risk investing, especially with the likely costs involved.
There are also other issues such as the passenger psychology of being in a closed box with very few windows and, as pointed out, the evacuation arrangements.
Man City p3 w3 d0 l0 f4 a0 P9 - hey it may never happen again!
SparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 651 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 66824 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16): The engines look like after thoughts, you would think they would blend them into the body, instead of creating all that drag?
The engines are out of the body for good reason - first, if one explodes, then the damage is away from the wing. Blended in the wing, this would make the plane vulnerable. Second, the design pulls air over and under the wing, helping to create lift.
Quoting Oly720man (Reply 21): There are also other issues such as the passenger psychology of being in a closed box with very few windows and, as pointed out, the evacuation arrangements.
There's already a middle section in most aircraft away from the windows. It wouldn't be that different. Also, "synthetic" simulated windows could be installed, namely large monitors in the back of each seat, with views of the outside provided by installed exterior cameras.
With all the space provided by the blended wing, this opens up new possibilities for arranging seats, other than the row arrangment seen in the previous designs.
What's not mentioned is that this design can be tweaked to make the ultimate "combi" arrangment, leaving airlines to mix cargo with passengers.
As for escape routes, emergency stairwells could be installed from the passenger deck through the top of the aircraft, as well as the sides.
I don't believe that this is a serious design that will be offered by Boeing, but it's fun to look at again and explore its potential.
SparkingWave ~~~
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
DeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1287 posts, RR: 27 Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 66445 times:
This can hardly be true. First of all, didn't Boeing announce themselves, they were'nt even going to look into developing a plane bigger then the 748 for the next 10 years?
Anyway, I thought Boeing stated the 797 is going to be a 737 secessor, that would make so much more sense.
At last but not least, the image is in Boeing's old house colors, which just showes it IS old news.
DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
25 Lordanmol: Even is this story is true which I dont think so, wont there be problems with the evacuation. They evacuate a lot of passengers in 90 secs? Regards
26 Halibut: It is indeed true that Boeing/Phantom works/Nasa have been studying this concept . However , I doubt very much that this is true at this time . I beli
27 Halibut: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-48 The X-48 is an experimental aircraft currently under development by Boeing and NASA for investigation into th
28 Jetflyer: This is the biggest joke I've seen in my life. IMHO its even stupider than the A380 looks and everyone complains about 800 pax on a A380, and look, 10
29 Aviationfreak: Suppose such a design will eventually make it. How are we gonna load baggage and cargo on such an a/c? Probably not like the conventional way with AKE
30 DeltaDC9: I don't know why this thread disappeared yesterday then reappeared without my post. Anyway, here is a better image of what they are thinking. 2nd try.
31 StarGoldLHR: I see this project s recieved Illegal governement aid from the US government via Nasa for this design ?
32 DeltaDC9: Are you being sarcastic? If you didnt know, NASA research is available to Airbus too. Here is an example: http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Concept2Reali
33 JBo: It still wouldn't be the same, and passegers would know it. It's also not natural sunlight. All that stuff runs together psychologically speaking.
34 Hrhf1: Anyone care to guess how much work would need to be done at airports to accept this aircraft, if it existed? I don't think the ramp area at most airpo
35 DeltaDC9: My guess would be none, its the same wingspan as a 380 and it has doors just like any other plane. To say this is preposterous is like saying the A-3
36 Hrhf1: I believe the A380 is using two jetways for disembarking, and with this proposed unit, the flared design might make that more difficult that a "tradi
37 Bmacleod: I wouldn't get on a plane that doesn't have windows and I think most passengers share my view....
38 DeltaDC9: It wouldnt be seemless, niehter was the 380. But, I seriously doubt that anything you mention would be a problem. The guys at Boeing and Airbus are p
39 Oroka: First thing I thought of when I read this thread was that pic from a popular mechanics magazene I used to have. That article is... dumb. No direct qu
40 Ulfinator: So this in fact has been kicked around by Boeing's think tank Phantom Works for a while. http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2004/april/cover
41 Acidradio: In other news, Bombardier and Embraer had joined together in an unprecedented move to corner the intergalactic fighter aircraft market, with a new gen
42 JAL: Are there any truth to this???? This sounds too good to be true!
43 Positiverate: Boeing hasn't announced anything...
44 AirRyan: 1,000 passengers? I'd rather take a boat.
45 FLY2HMO: The whole project was shelved long ago, IIRC, it was more of a feasibilty study than anything else. One thing I've learned is to never believe anythi
46 Rampart: "You'd be daft to think that any airline would want anything more than 2 engines. Think how complicated that would be! And how would they evacuate al
47 Areopagus: The article says: Boeing decide to kill its 747X stretched super jumbo in 2003 after little interest was shown by airline companies, but has continued
48 Aloha717200: The BWB is indeed a real study, but, I dont think it will happen. This article is not only old but unreliable and written more in the style of a super
49 Joni: This is a reheat of an ancient powerpoint presentation... It would be an amusing about-face if Boeing were to suddenly decide there's a huge market fo
50 Soaringadi: I love Boeing, but I am not with it on this one
51 DeltaDC9: Actually the meat of the article is referring to a NASA/Boeing press release after a wind tunnel testing program was completed last year. Strictly re
52 Heathrow: My Friend sent me the link to that story yesterday. I think if it was true, itrnwould be great, but I don't think it's going to happen. Boeing hasn'tr
54 Tom_EDDF: Unlikely IMO due to: - fairly high g-force exposure to passengers located in the outer sections of the wing. Imagine a 75m span BWB flying a SID going
55 BAtriple7: Uhu, and pigs can fly. It may happen in the future.....but, as they say, not until 2030 or somewhere equally comfortably far off...
56 Rob878: Correct me if i'm wrong..... This is the response that the ride in the centre of the fuselage in a BWb will be less banked than that of a window seat.
57 Tom_EDDF: Of course the angle is the same, but the vertical distance passengers have to travel with every turn is what makes the difference to me. It works like
58 Falcon84: Boy, but some people are slooooooow on here.
59 Tom_EDDF: Well, the article he posted is hoax for sure, but discussing the BWB concept again is a nice change to the usual A350 vs. 787 discussions that are go
60 2H4: Brilliant post...perhaps there should be a "smilie" that inserts this text every time someone declares how impossible a given concept must be... 2H4
61 Phuebner: That's what I'm saying! People in this forum take themselves too seriously sometimes and a change is always nice.
62 Rob878: Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 59): Well, the article he posted is hoax for sure, but discussing the BWB concept again is a nice change to the usual A350 vs.
63 AvObserver: Given the sensationalist veneer of the website the article was from, it's hard to see how anyone but a teen aviation fanatic would swallow it. The BWB
64 Texfly101: I remember way back when I did a turn as a photgrapher for a newspaper. The writers would get nervous as the deadline time would approach and they did
65 Wukka: Moving "half the speed of a fairly fast elevator" wouldn't be all that uncomfortable of an experience to a human being... It's the fully fast elevato
66 N723GW: I am right there with you, this is a disgusting design, whatever happened to Boeing's idea of a high-wing 797?
67 Aerokiwi: Regarding that pic in Reply 30...VERY COOL!!! Thanks DeltaDC9. Interesting to wonder how the airlines would paint such aircraft to reflect their corpo
68 Dc10guy: Its great to see that Boeing doesn't get any government help with thier aircraft development ... " Boeing with help from the Langley research center"
69 Areopagus: The vertical stabilizers are on the wingtips, doubling as winglets.
71 Ahdharia: Actually Boeing has been developing that idea for a long time now. I remember hearing some story about a blended wing plane a long time ago. But anywa
73 DeltaDC9: I think this has been oway overblown. Its not like it would be similar to a roller coaster. Some people seem to have a need grab onto any suggestion
74 Tom_EDDF: Not a valid comparison. In a standard tube with wings, you rotate to 12.5° or so and keep this attitude for some time, typically till around 1500AGL
75 Tvb: Seems that you gentlemen have not understood what we're facing here: may I enlighten you a bit? So the BWB concept goes back to the patent issued for
76 Tom_EDDF: Dear TvB (I hope you really are THE one and only TvB) I clearly stated that it is not likely that passengers will be seated close to the wingtip. Howe
77 DeltaDC9: Excellent post! I am amazed by the negativity displayed here, resistance to change does not seem to me to be compatible with a love for aviation. Ble
78 Tvb: Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 32): Are you being sarcastic? If you didnt know, NASA research is available to Airbus too. While we discuss that: as a matter
79 DeltaDC9: Now there's a grenade for this discussion. I sure would like to see what they proposed. By the way, I have always been fascinated by German WWII avia
80 Tvb: Well, as a matter of fact they are controlled by German management but the problem is: their engineers and attitude are French...
81 DeltaDC9: Yes, I was just beating around the bush on that issue. At least we as Americans have no problem with using German (or any other countries) engineerin
82 B6JFKH81: Well, there is something I just cannot fly without!!! Lets hope for smooth skies or else the pool will splash all over the place.
83 Texfly101: Yeah, DeltaDC9 gets it right. Good post and right on the mark as the sources are both informed and well written...and most of all, factual, particula
84 DeltaDC9: Funny how many of these aviation fans miss the big stuff isn't it?
85 Bobster2: It already happened. Why does nobody remember the Aereon 26? It flew in March, 1971. I guess nobody remembers because it only flew once. But it looks
86 Halibut: Yes indeed DeltaDC9, Just like many "aviation experts/Airbus folks" missed the 787 ! Regarding Boeing . Next decade should be a trip. We ain't seen n
87 DeltaDC9: Actually I do remember that, I was speaking strictly about commercial service. That and many other planes going back to WWII Germany and before have
88 Himself: Spooky! I love the whole BWB idea, but I thought the top post was a bunch of B.S., and now I see this on my regular news search. Media Invited to Blen
89 TvB: Uoops, seems that sometimes it seems fair here that people can post unjustified comments about others and sometimes, specially when you pick it up and
90 Lehpron: Did anyone notice that this model is has high-wing, which is virtually flat on top?
91 Halibut: Cool photo, Who's study aircraft is that ??? Halibut
92 Lehpron: That is the second generation BWB that Boeing (via Phantom Works), NASA and USAF have currently settled on, X-48B. I think this is what was blasted i
93 Halibut: Lehpron, How serious is Boeing regarding the BWB ??? Is it possible they "Boeing" may go BWB for the soon to be decided tanker deal & Boeing keeping t
94 Lehpron: What do you regard as serious? Research is just that, a process of proving a concept. No production plans or production market analysis'; regarding a
95 Delta767300ER: Man, That flying wing is uuuuuuuggggggllllllyyyyyyyy. I wouldnt want to fly on something that looked like that. I think the A/C companies should keep
96 Fanofjets: Actually, the Actually, the skeptics and designers of blended wing aircraft have been around before then: (Web site here: http://www.combatreform.com/
97 Falcon84: That can't be a quote from Yoda! He would have said "For the Integrity of the galaxy, needed is intergalactic cooperation." That would be more like P
98 Acidradio: You're right. I think it got lost in translation somewhere, sorry.
99 Zvezda: That was the thinking at Boeing as of the cancellation of the Sonic Cruiser in 2002. The B737RS (formerly Y1) will go ahead as soon as suitable engin
100 RIX: - Zvezda, was this "pro-BWB" ("looks like no Y3, hence BWB chances look not bad") or "contra-BWB" ("anything larger than 346/773 is not in demand, he
101 Zvezda: I'm pessimistic on the likelihood of a BWB for passenger service for several reasons, one of which is that I don't see much demand for airliners larg
102 Airplanekid101: how in the world woud they do that? NICK
103 Stirling: Here's the text from above.....just for all the boo-hooers who said the BWB is DEAD!
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