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WN Set To Triple Denver Ops  
User currently offlineBarney Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 970 posts, RR: 13
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 6109 times:

CHRIS WALSH
Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO)

Southwest Airlines is preparing to as much as triple its daily departures from Denver International Airport, reflecting the carrier's intentions to grow rapidly in its newest market.

The low-cost airline appears close to receiving final Federal Aviation Administration approval on a proposal to fly as many as 60 daily nonstop departures from Denver. Southwest, which launched service at DIA in January, currently offers 20 daily flights from the airport.

Southwest's proposal signals that the company is bullish on its potential in Denver, said company spokeswoman Melanie Jones.

"This is a response to the success we're seeing there, and it's in anticipation of growth so when the time is right we have this step in place," Jones said, adding that the carrier has not announced specific plans for any new service.

Dallas-based Southwest last year received federal approval to start service at DIA and was told it would have to go through the process again if it planned to add more than 40 flights.

Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations. The FAA has issued a recommendation approving Southwest's latest proposal, saying the new flights conform with the regulations. The agency is now accepting public comment on the issue.

Southwest has said all along that it sees significant potential in Denver, and industry experts have been expecting Southwest to expand here sooner rather than later.

Last week, for instance, a Bear Stearns analyst downgraded shares of Denver-based Frontier Airlines, saying the carrier will face increased competition from Southwest.

"We believe expansion plans in Denver are aggressive and that Southwest capacity will more than triple in the next two years," analyst David Strine wrote in a research note to clients.

Experts say Southwest could boost flights from DIA to current destinations but also will look to add service to new cities such as Oakland, Calif.; Houston; Orlando, Fla.; and Nashville, Tenn.

Southwest is expanding rapidly nationwide as other airlines become more competitive. The carrier will add 33 planes to its fleet this year and has 140 planes scheduled for delivery between 2007 and 2012. Much of that growth likely will come at the expense of other carriers, said Evergreen-based aviation consultant Mike Boyd.

Still, he said, Southwest faces a tough battle in Denver. Both United and Frontier, the city's largest carriers, are fighting aggressively for passengers and are well-known in Denver. Boyd also argues that, price being equal, those two carriers offer a better product than Southwest.

"The last time I checked, Southwest was not included on the tablets Moses brought down from Mount Sinai," Boyd said. "So there's no guarantee they will be successful."

Consumers could be the biggest winners in any Southwest expansion. The carrier already has helped push down fares at DIA since its arrival less than four months ago. During the first week of April, for instance, fares at DIA were down 18 percent from a year earlier, even as ticket prices nationally were on the upswing.

And, as the competition heats up, both United and Frontier are boosting their service ahead of the summer busy season.

The airport is "very pleased with Southwest's indication that it is looking at increasing its schedule," said DIA manager Turner West. "Increased competition is always good for the traveling public."

Southwest currently has three gates on the C concourse at DIA and will gain one more in June. It typically operates about 10 flights a day at each gate it leases, meaning it would need more if it expands in Denver.

West said DIA will make "every effort" to work with Southwest on securing additional gates.


...from the Banana Republic....
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 6024 times:

Not particullarly surprising given what I see in Concourse C every time I fly out of DEN. The flights are full, and aircraft traffic is up not only at WN, but also at F9 (although the SLC flights looked weak) and UA.

DEN is designed to be able to add more gates to the edges of each concourse. In addition they have room for Concourse D and Concourse E (although they will have to move a hanger to do E). United in the past has put the kibbish on any expansion by threating to sue the city if they do anything that affects the Airport's bond ratings. I suspect that they will try to do that again. DEN does need concourse space rather desperatly to find these gates.


User currently offlinePhelpsie87 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 498 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 5912 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
Not particullarly surprising given what I see in Concourse C every time I fly out of DEN. The flights are full, and aircraft traffic is up not only at WN, but also at F9 (although the SLC flights looked weak) and UA.

I have noticed that too. Traffic is up at DEN, and a big part has to be WN. Regardless of whether or not the passenger is flying WN, their presence has lowed the fare's on the other carriers. I flew in and out of Denver in March and I was shocked that every flight I was on during my trip was packed.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
DEN is designed to be able to add more gates to the edges of each concourse. In addition they have room for Concourse D and Concourse E (although they will have to move a hanger to do E).

I believe that F9 has already done this on the west side of A, and I remember reading in the Rocky Mountain News that DEN was going to add at least 2 gates on the west side of C. Not sure if it was speculation or plans. I am looking for the article now.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6871 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 5834 times:

Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations.

Huh? Any US airport? What regulations?


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months ago) and read 5766 times:

I'm hoping ABQ, ELP, or HOU are on the list. As of now, you can't reach DEN from any of WN's Texas markets. These cities would open that up.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9236 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months ago) and read 5716 times:

Maybe Colorado will be the next state to be removed from the evil clutches the W.A. so that WN could start a DEN-DAL operation. AA, get over it! Welcome to the world of competition... ABQ, ELP, and HOU should be coming soon as well...

[Edited 2006-04-26 20:39:57]


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months ago) and read 5694 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
ABQ, ELP, and HOU should be coming soon as well...

Is this a guess or fact?


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9236 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5625 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 6):
Is this a guess or fact?

It's based on someone else's post; It's a guess



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5077 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Best of luck to WN. Can't slam an airline that is successful.

Beware though WN. Your creepin on animal territory. I would not want to see Jack and Foxy show ya up! LOL!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5494 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

ABQ and especially ELP are going to be hard to pull offww from DEN right now. F9 has the benefit of connecting and still only has 2x CR7 in ELP, and ABQ has both UA and F9 mainline with connecting traffic for support. I could see maybe 2x DEN-ABQ and 3x DEN-HOU lets say, but I wouldn't expect ELP for a while. WN will probably connect there larger traffic cities next, such as OAK, LAX, SAN, HOU and maybe MCI and STL, or even BNA and MCO. Just my educated guess.

User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

MCI and MCO would be slam dunks.
Always full.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5261 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations. The FAA has issued a recommendation approving Southwest's latest proposal, saying the new flights conform with the regulations. The agency is now accepting public comment on the issue.

Did I miss something? So there are still absurd anticompetitive barriers to entry at all airports to certificated carriers? I was aware of course on certain absurd barriers (Wright Amendment, DCA and LGA slots, etc.) at some airports, but I guess I wasn't aware that one needed to get permission to serve every city. I'm surprised that people haven't used this against TZ, WN, B6, etc. in the past.

Or is this a in-form-only approval that only gets mentioned in the article because of the stupid, government-centic viewpoint of many reporters, particularly the left-of-left RMN?


User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Glad to hear WN is having success here in Denver. Looking forward to taking them from here to NY through MDW.  crossfingers  of a non-stop DEN-ISP flight.

signed,
Matthew



2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5320 times:

I think you will see DEN-ABQ-ELP again.

Prices are too high and that market can do fairly well when the price is right.

The price isn't right right now.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16883 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

I agree that Houston Hobby has to be near the top of their prority list for Denver, but how about PHL?.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

I would like to see WN give some competition to United and F9 from Tucson to Denver. Frontier prices from Tucson are usually very expensive.

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Maybe Colorado will be the next state to be removed from the evil clutches the W.A. so that WN could start a DEN-DAL operation. AA, get over it! Welcome to the world of competition...

This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1483 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Quoting Ssides (Reply 4):
I'm hoping ABQ, ELP, or HOU are on the list. As of now, you can't reach DEN from any of WN's Texas markets. These cities would open that up.

ELP? Are you kidding? Have you seen the loads on DEN-ELP on UA within the past year? They are not very good.

So far YTD the Load Factor on the DEN-ELP route on UAX is 77%


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4765 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.

If I was WN I wouldn't want to go to DFW either. And what's even worse is AA is trying to get it closed down yet they started those flights out of DAL.


User currently offlineNcflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 487 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

WN is very adept at PR and this shows why. . .

When I lived in RDU, WN issued a press release about a year after their start saying they could envision having 100 flights at RDU in the near future. They are still stuck in the 20's, last I checked.

When WN added ORF, they placated RIC by saying it was on their short list of cities. Well here we are still no RIC.

I'll believe it when I see it, with the needs of Philly, adding new cities, steady expansion in MDW and BWI, where are all the planes going to come from?

PS Jet Blue does the same PR tactic, and it sure works to get a lot of buzz on this board.


User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):

This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.

Please, not another W.A. derailment. Separate issue. Move on.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25412 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4646 times:
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Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 13):
I think you will see DEN-ABQ-ELP again.

Prices are too high and that market can do fairly well when the price is right.

The price isn't right right now.

$75 is too high?

It is, I admit, higher than the present $50 DEN-SLC fares - on which I am sure the airlines are making sooooooooo much profit.

mariner

[Edited 2006-04-27 04:16:29]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
Dallas-based Southwest last year received federal approval to start service at DIA and was told it would have to go through the process again if it planned to add more than 40 flights.

Airlines that want to start service or significantly increase flights at a given airport must meet certain environmental regulations.



Quoting Timz (Reply 3):
Huh? Any US airport? What regulations?



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 11):
Did I miss something? So there are still absurd anticompetitive barriers to entry at all airports to certificated carriers?

I wasn't familiar with this either so I did some checking on it. Maybe someone who is a little more familiar can chime in. But there is a federal environmental regulation and a docket.

Since this seems to be unknown to many I'm going to start a new thread, so that this one doesn't suffer from drift. Hopefully we can build a little info about this.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2741107/



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4044 times:
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Quoting Iowaman (Reply 9):
WN will probably connect there larger traffic cities next, such as OAK, LAX, SAN, HOU and maybe MCI and STL, or even BNA and MCO.

I couldn't imagine WN would pass on DEN-OAK. OAK is turning out to be the connection complex for Hawaii. Plus, they've retained their Sat. service.


User currently offlineUnited737522 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Maybe Colorado will be the next state to be removed from the evil clutches the W.A. so that WN could start a DEN-DAL operation. AA, get over it! Welcome to the world of competition...

This is nonsense. Southwest can compete in the market any time from DFW. But it gets such a sweet deal in landing fees at Dallas Love that it has misled people into believing the W.A. prevents it from competing.

I agree, it is nonsense. I think it is WN who needs to 'get over it' over the WA. AA is more familiar with competition than WN is. This is another issue though.

I have noticed lately an increase in the fullness of the economy lots here in DEN, I imagine an increase in new destinations may call for the need of new parking facilities and more restaurants in DEN. I am never able to order food and find a place to sit without waiting forever.


25 Lufthansa : I haven't been in DEN for a bit over a year now, but I'm guessing that there wouldn't really be all that much room for WN there? I don't see what thei
26 AirFrnt : 1) Airline hubs are not about fairness. 2) UA and F9's competition has been good for denver. WN in the mix is also good for dener. 3) SLC is not next
27 Post contains images Greyhound : I'm suspicious of what Larry the Lynx would do. I think the increased competition would be better, although I hope Frontier doesn't suffer to much. T
28 Stirling : And the new terminal addition should be coming on line when? All this expansion of WN at DEN is great, but I'm afraid these people forming the increa
29 Post contains links Phelpsie87 : Are you serious?? You think that DEN is growing at the expense of COS? Both are growing, and COS is sure to get bigger as more and more people start
30 Mariner : Dream on. Southwest at DEN will do considerable harm to Frontier, if only as collateral damage. I used to believe otherwise. But this latest move - 6
31 SLUAviator : How about IAD-DEN for WN's expanded service? I think DEN and MDW are in line for 3+ flights from IAD. If anyone can challenge United head to head on t
32 Mariner : Frontier's DEN-LAX, DEN-SFO, DEN-MDW, DEN-DCA are not a challenge to United? Frontier has small ones? mariner
33 ScottB : $75 isn't too high, but $254-$324 walk-up is too high. WN's ABQ-MAF refundable fare is $123 including taxes -- and it's only 17 miles shorter than AB
34 FATFlyer : But COS finished 2005 down from 2004, - 0.4%, in a year when the national number went up 2.5% in 2005 according the ATA. It looks like COS may have a
35 Mariner : He didn't specify walk-up. The statement was very non-specific - that the fares are "not right". I just got the DEN-ABQ $75 fare for Saturday - okay,
36 Post contains images Phelpsie87 : Yeah I was talking about this year, 2006. Compared to 2005, COS is up 1.8%. Besides, is -.04% really that huge? I guess it might be for COS, but WN d
37 Post contains images FATFlyer : But when the national average was up in 2005, a growing area like COS should have seen some growth. Heck FAT was up 6.5% in 2005 over 2004. And in 20
38 Azstar : WN will cream F9 at DEN.
39 Phelpsie87 : Good point sir. Well, if not WN, maybe F9 should consider COS...who knows.
40 Stirling : Then I must have been imagining the 5 gates being currently added to Terminal 2. When these gates come on line, WN will have a lot more room to grow,
41 Mariner : Then please explain Frontier's 81% load factor in March. mariner
42 MSYtristar : I could see WN doing DEN-MSY at some point since F9 flat out abandoned the market. (I talked to a senior manager with F9 at DEN about two weeks ago an
43 Post contains links Phelpsie87 : What?!? DEN is not adding gates to Concourse B. Even if they were, Concourse B is UAL's, you will not see a WN gate there, PERIOD! Adding gates to B
44 ScottB : For "a" Saturday or "this" Saturday. The fares I'm seeing from Frontier's own web site (well, actually their Frontier-branded site at Sabre) are all
45 Post contains links FATFlyer : " target=_blank>http://www.flydenver.com/pr/DIAPR_06...1.pdf I think you 2 are talking about different airports. Stirling, I think is referring to OA
46 Phelpsie87 : There is no press release or news article stating this, so yes, I think you are imagining. DEN has the option to add on to A, B, and C, but I have se
47 Phelpsie87 : Oh, well....that explains it all then. Thanks FATFlyer! Good call.
48 Mariner : I got it for "this" Saturday (29), on Travelocity, just before I made the post. As to walk up fares and timing, we can all find fares to prove our va
49 Mariner : I'm sure everyoine was shocked and disappointed. I know I was. But those of us who follow Frontier's fortunes were more shocked - and very concerned
50 ScottB : "The Aggie" is TxAg (I'm assuming it's short for Texas (A&M) Aggie; a graduate of Texas A&M). It's not a "crack," I'm being specific as to the fact t
51 Mariner : You mean the person who didn't specify last minute walk-up fares? That is their own website. I know of no other. Is there another Frontier Airlines w
52 ScottB : Then you must get a different version of Travelocity in NZ; the lowest published fare I see right now on Travelocity with a departure before 01-MAY-2
53 Mariner : How am I "bent out of shape"? I am simply puzzled as to why you even referred to it. If "a number of airlines outsource their online booking engine"
54 MSYtristar : Well, in the grand scheme of things, F9 never really did much to make MSY successful, even though the station was profitable with the one flight per
55 Mariner : I seem to recall that there were two flights per day in season. Great PR opportunites are terrific, but with oil at record highs and with the loss of
56 MSYtristar : None. And I think they would have seen a pretty nice profit if they would have continued with MSY service. But it's all in the past, in fact, I found
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