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WN Using ATA To Test Grounds For LGA Service?  
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

With NYC (and with that I do not count Islip as it can be well over an hour drive away in traffic) being probably the biggest hole in the WN network, I was wondering If WN was using ATA service out of LGA to test the possibility of WN serving LGA themselves eventually. IIRC, Southwest owns part (most?) of ATA. Would this mean that they would be in a position to take over their slots at LGA? It would make sense because right now TZ flies LGA-HOU, and LGA-MDW. These routes are perfect to feed to WN "hubs" at HOU/MDW. Each time I have flown LGA-MDW, there have been tons of pax connecting onto other WN destinations. Im sure the same is true for HOU. HOU and MDW would also seem like good WN nonstops out of LGA, because I doubt they would want to take on B6/AA/CO/DL/US/NK in the mess that is LGA/JFK-FLORIDA. I guess I could see WN maybe flying down to BWI from LGA to connect pax to many destinations, and maybe flying to DEN/STL, if they ever got more slots. What does everyone think about this?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWN57787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Quoting LGAtoIND (Thread starter):
Southwest owns part (most?) of ATA

WN does not own any part of TZ....WN gave TZ a LONE and it was payed back... just a Code Share between the two Airlines


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

I thought SW owned about 30% of ATA?


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineWN57787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

only a lone and was payed back when they emerged from bankruptcy with no ties to them

User currently offlineFlying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 435 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

I'm sorry but its LOAN not lone. lone means one

User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3030 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Southwest does not own any part of ATA. The LOAN was payed back with the MDW gates and hangars.

User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting LGAtoIND (Thread starter):
With NYC (and with that I do not count Islip as it can be well over an hour drive away in traffic) being probably the biggest hole in the WN network, I was wondering If WN was using ATA service out of LGA to test the possibility of WN serving LGA themselves eventually. IIRC, Southwest owns part (most?) of ATA. Would this mean that they would be in a position to take over their slots at LGA? It would make sense because right now TZ flies LGA-HOU, and LGA-MDW. These routes are perfect to feed to WN "hubs" at HOU/MDW. Each time I have flown LGA-MDW, there have been tons of pax connecting onto other WN destinations. Im sure the same is true for HOU. HOU and MDW would also seem like good WN nonstops out of LGA, because I doubt they would want to take on B6/AA/CO/DL/US/NK in the mess that is LGA/JFK-FLORIDA. I guess I could see WN maybe flying down to BWI from LGA to connect pax to many destinations, and maybe flying to DEN/STL, if they ever got more slots. What does everyone think about this?

I don't think we'll ever see WN in LGA. The delays of LGA is something that would almost certainly leave it out of consideration by Southwest. If we ever see WN in NYC, it'll be EWR or JFK.

signed,
Matthew



2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3997 times:

They probably got TZ to do the route so they could throw their own pax on the planes all they wanted but not have to deal with the slots/delays.

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4365 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3970 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Yanksn4 (Reply 6):
I don't think we'll ever see WN in LGA. The delays of LGA is something that would almost certainly leave it out of consideration by Southwest. If we ever see WN in NYC, it'll be EWR or JFK.

As if EWR is any better.  Yeah sure They already fly to the least on-time airport in the nation according to the DOT in 2005, which is PHL.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 7):
They probably got TZ to do the route so they could throw their own pax on the planes all they wanted but not have to deal with the slots/delays.

Wasn't there some talk of WN in LGA by 2008? I know getting the slots are an issue though.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 3929 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 8):
I know getting the slots are an issue though.

I thought LGA was ending the slots system next year?

signed,
Matthew



2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
User currently offlineWN57787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 5):
Southwest does not own any part of ATA. The LOAN was payed back with the MDW gates and hangars.

no.....


wn loan was 40 million cash and wn purchised the 4 gates and hanger back over 1 yr ago..... and then in Jan. TZ payed WN off with Cash and 3 more Gates in mdw to pay off the Loan... TZ now only have 1 Gate in MDW.

Quoting Yanksn4 (Reply 6):
I don't think we'll ever see WN in LGA.

you never know whare wn will fly to.. Wn Starts service to IAD latter this fall
and just this year Wn Re-stated service to DEN after 20 yrs of not servicing that airport. and who thought WN would service PHL


User currently onlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

I don't see WN at LGA ever. They simply couldn't get enough slots to have a sizeable operation there, especially not with the 20-30 flights that WN usually starts a city with. I see them at EWR in the future, however. I definitely think that WN at EWR is in the not too distant future.

Jeremy


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 11):
I don't see WN at LGA ever. They simply couldn't get enough slots to have a sizeable operation there, especially not with the 20-30 flights that WN usually starts a city with. I see them at EWR in the future, however. I definitely think that WN at EWR is in the not too distant future.

WN does not start cities with 20-30 flights, it's usually in the ballpark of something like 10-13.  Smile

Regards,
MD90fan  airplane 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineWN57787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 11):
the 20-30 flights that WN usually starts a city with

the last city to open up with more then 20 flts was SLC witch opened up with more flts the it has now. for WN


User currently offlineATA767 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

I think the slots are the only thing that might be holding WN back from LGA in a big way. WN did however have the option to get those slots when ATA went into Bankruptcy. These slots were to go to Airtran but since WN did not even go for them I would guess that LGA is not in their immediate future flight plan.

I will expect to see ATA enter slowly into routes that WN does not serve directly, like HOU-MIA or MDW-MIA. Routes like those have the same recipe for success as the HOU-LGA.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 1):
WN gave TZ a LONE and it was payed back

LOAN

Quoting Yanksn4 (Reply 9):
I thought LGA was ending the slots system next year?

Not the slots, but they are getting rid of their perimeter rules in the next couple of years



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Not the slots, but they are getting rid of their perimeter rules in the next couple of years

I was not aware of any plan to eliminate the perimeter rule at LGA--do you have any further info on this?

As I recall, the plan under Air-21 was to phase out the slot restrictions at LGA and JFK on January 1, 2007. However, given how well the unlimited RJ slot exemptions went in 2000 [sarcasm], I am not sure of the current status of that plan. I sure hope it won't happen--the delays would be an absolute nightmare at LGA, just like in 2000.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Not the slots, but they are getting rid of their perimeter rules in the next couple of years

I haven't heard anything about this. Do you have a source?


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Not the slots, but they are getting rid of their perimeter rules in the next couple of years

You've got it backwards.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 16):
As I recall, the plan under Air-21 was to phase out the slot restrictions at LGA and JFK on January 1, 2007. However, given how well the unlimited RJ slot exemptions went in 2000 [sarcasm], I am not sure of the current status of that plan. I sure hope it won't happen--the delays would be an absolute nightmare at LGA, just like in 2000.

Yes, you're correct. The 1/1/07 elimination of slots is still on the books, but it's all but certain to be pushed back again.

And I'd also note that under Air21, any new entrant or limited incumbent airline (like Southwest would be) can get up to 20 slot exemptions at LGA (good for 10 roundtrips) for free, just by asking. That's how airlines like AirTran and JetBlue were able to start decent-sized operations at LGA (unlike DCA), and WN would be free to open LGA with 10 flights if they wanted to.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 18):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Not the slots, but they are getting rid of their perimeter rules in the next couple of years

You've got it backwards.

Ah, thanks for fixing that.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
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