PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3987 posts, RR: 93 Posted (7 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 12561 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Seems they are going to buy them, one for Farnborough?
By James Peng
April 27 (Bloomberg) -- China Airlines plans to buy 10 of Boeing Co.'s 747-8 passenger aircraft costing almost $2.5 billion, the Economic Daily News reported, without citing anyone.
The two sides are expected to sign the deal by the end of June, the Taipei-based, Chinese-language newspaper said.
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12336 times:
If this is true... this is a major loss for Airbus. They need more Chinese customers and losing China Airlines, in my opinion, is a a major disappointment.
For one, they already operate Airbus jets so the A380 could have been a natural fit... Secondly, Boeing one a first round A380 vs 748. Boeing needed this win to gain credibility.
Zone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12314 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 3): If this is true... this is a major loss for Airbus. They need more Chinese customers and losing China Airlines, in my opinion, is a a major disappointment.
China Airlines is Taiwanese and they already operate 744s, so it's not that big of a loss for Airbus. But it's a great first win for the 747-8I!
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12287 times:
Quoting CWFan (Reply 1): Yeah, it smacks a bit of politics, but an order is an order.
Yes.
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 3): If this is true... this is a major loss for Airbus. They need more Chinese customers and losing China Airlines, in my opinion, is a a major disappointment.
How so? China Airlines will likely fly both as China makes another political order for the A380.
Or China may just decide they can't split up fleets the way they do with the smaller jets and decide which carriers will be A380 and which will be 748i customers.
But it's not a loss. There will be tit for tat.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12259 times:
Quoting Zone1 (Reply 6): so it's not that big of a loss for Airbus.
Look, there are not many airlines need the capacity of 744, let alone the A380. So when you have an airline choose to increase their growth with the 748 or te A380 its a loss for the other. Simple as that...
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2657 posts, RR: 59 Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12207 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7): Or China may just decide they can't split up fleets the way they do with the smaller jets and decide which carriers will be A380 and which will be 748i customers.
I believe you are confusing Taiwan (China Airlines) with mainland China.
Don't get me wrong, when China Airlines buys anything there are certainly politics involved. However, it is unlikely that CI will buy A380's if they go ahead with this 747-8 purchase. Possible, but unlikely.
OTOH, even though politics will certainly be involved, I must say this order makes a lot of sense as well. CI has been looking for a 744 replacement for a while now, and with an extraordinarily large 744 (pax and freighter) fleet, the 748 is a great replacement.
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12207 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 9): Um, 442 744 deliveries disagrees with you on that.
How many airlines operate the 744? How many airlines that operate the 744 will opt for more frequencies for growth? How many are left? How many will go for the A380? How many will opt for the 748?
Quoting N1120A (Reply 9): As far as the Chinese customers Airbus wants, an ROC carrier is probably a lower priority.
Don't be silly... every customer counts in this niche market.
Alexchao From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 686 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12207 times:
Well, the politics behind this potential order is President Chen's upcoming tour in May. The Taiwanese authorities hope that President Chen can transit in the U.S.
The rumors have faced great opposition from the opposition party.
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 39 Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 12086 times:
Quoting Alexchao (Reply 12): Well, the politics behind this potential order is President Chen's upcoming tour in May. The Taiwanese authorities hope that President Chen can transit in the U.S.
The order is quid pro quo for playing the Taiwanese anthem when PRC's president Hu Jintao was in D.C.
[Edited 2006-04-27 04:18:23]
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 11926 times:
Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 18): Bowling alleys, a shopping mall and swimming pool? Or as it is an American product - a drive-thru restaurant?
Everybody has a lot in mind, only a fraction of that materializes...
Very true! A plane like the 748 or A380 has the highest cost per sq. meter of real estate anywhere. So the only amenity you will see are lots and lots of seats.
Khobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 11832 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 19): Very true! A plane like the 748 or A380 has the highest cost per sq. meter of real estate anywhere. So the only amenity you will see are lots and lots of seats.
Unless they use space that can't be used for seats and the economics of carrying any extra weight justifies said use.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 11559 times:
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 23): I find these to be quite an equitable response to the report
Well, I never say congratulations to huge corporations, even if the news is official. I don't really see the point...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Jacobin777: Interesting.. found this on Bloomberg.. "China Airlines to Pick Boeing 747-8 or Airbus A380 by Year End April 26, 2006 22:53 EDT -- China Airlines, Ta
26 NAV20: Forbes' 'Welcome screen quotation' today seems very apposite:- "Half the work done in this world is to make things appear as they are not." However, t
27 N754PR: Boeing order and American replies all over the shop... how strange May I add that the 748 and A388 are not for the same use like the A350 / 787. Anywa
28 Jacobin777: I see a heck of a lot of carriers potentially purchasing it...... LH, BA, CX, JL, NH, SQ, UA, QF, and KL are among a few... Both Boeing and GE have p
29 Zvezda: Each of those 442 JumboJets delivered was ordered for at least one of three reasons: 1) lowest CASM of all available airliners, 2) no other airliner
30 Manni: Again a near order for the 748i. We have seen countless articles reporting that airline XYZ is interested in the 748i, Boeing spokesman have repeadetl
31 Jacobin777: keep your pants on mate...we have a long way to go before the end of the year.........as I've mentioned before, both Boeing and GE have stated that t
32 Keesje: It seems Bloomberg is eating it's words http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...100&sid=aD4XRAYOeMvk&refer=germany
33 Johnny: sorry, but political orders simply do not thrill me...
34 Art: I don't understand the need for any political pressure. IIRC a month or so ago it was reported that the airline wanted more 747 freighters. The sugge
35 Abba: ...and not only that. They are in stiff competition with Korean as to which airlines that has got the most crasses under their belt! Abba
36 RJ111: Haha, yes i agree. Congradulations Boeing on becoming about 50+ Billion pounds richer than me
37 Windshear: Wow nice! But still a kind of a careful start for the B748 PAX no? Boaz.
38 Glideslope: This is simply the beginning of the end for the 380. IMO, operators are now aware just how many PAX they are going to be required to stuff in the Whal
39 RJ111: What a load of unfounded BS, simply put.
40 PanAm_DC10: I never said you did. My comment on Zvezda's remarks were correct. I reported the initial news at hand. He urged caution as the report was in it's in
41 EI321: Has anybody else noticed that just about every plane is being labeled as a niche on this site these days? Why dont you inform us then. I guess its pr
42 Zvezda: Yes, it's premature to take at face value a report, quoting no sources, that an airline is going to place a particular order. From time to time, misi
43 WINGS: Is it just me is their something wrong with the statement above? If the price of fuel was to escalate even more than I truly believe that the A380 wi
44 Sangas: There will soon be lower capacity, lower CASM alternatives to the A380 available to the airlines that want to maintain high frequency schedules. The
45 Aerosol: There are more than three people in this topic who made a complete fool out of themselves. If the order is true, nice to see some competition in this
46 Manni: Save that quote Glideslope. You might want to use that in the future, as eventualy someone might end up being the 748i launch customer. If you had ca
47 Zvezda: That depends on the shape of the demand curve.
48 Halibut: This caught my eye from Keesje's article . Which might give Boeing a better shot at this deal ! Going with the 747-8 will fit China Air's simplificati
49 LTBEWR: Don't forget that a lot of the political pressure upon both the PRC and ROC as to purchasing aircraft from Boeing has to do with the trade deficit. Bo
50 WINGS: If the price of fuel goes up even further airlines will have no other choice. They will have to sacrifice frequencies. If the airlines start to reduc
51 EI321: Your suggesting that the airlines add 100 seats on average to their A380s. That means removing business/first class seats and replacing them with low
52 Trex8: the MC said it was the ROC anthem but they actually did play the PRC anthem considering they have 15 744s to replace, an order for 10 means they may
53 Johnny: if this order will happen, and i guess it will, probably the next step of china airlines will be the A350-900 to replace both A343 and A333. This woul
54 Aerosol: to add: less logistics less noise lower cost of capital + having the biggest thing standing at the airport (even today for me an airline w/o 747 is a
55 Windshear: You can call me dumb or naive, but I have faith in both aircraft... I am not sure which manufacturer will benefit the most, but as far as the operator
56 Zvezda: Not necessarily. 1 WhaleJet vs. x A350/B787 seems a more likely choice. 2 B787 should have lower maintenance costs 1 WhaleJet should have lower pilot
57 NA: Thats what I always say. Reduce frequency, use bigger jets. You forgot one point though. Bigger jets means lesser traffic means less risk of accident
58 BoeingBus: Well, it has been mentioned that the 787-10 will have lower seat costs... http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4505 "what is attracting Em
60 Revelation: I don't understand this post. First you are unhappy about people talking about near orders for B747-8, then you make your point by talking about some
61 DAYflyer: With some IFE attached to those seats.
62 Manni: The difference being that CI has denied the report, coming from an unnamed source, that they have decided the buy 748's while EK has confirmed that i
63 WINGS: Well if oil reaches $100 a barrell they will certainly look into this option. How about A380-900 Vs A346/B773? Still too early to tell. I'm still cur
64 Stitch: Where airlines can reduce capacity, I expect they will. This would work for airlines flying "high-density trunk routes" like QF LAX-SYD and VS JFK-LHR
65 DeltaDC9: How can any multi billion dollar trade deal not? If true, explain why so many RFP's are for both? There is doubt, right here. Your opinion is just th
66 KLMCedric: Wings, whenever Glideslope is posting I think the better thing is to just ignore it! When you see his name appear on the head of the post, don't even
67 Johnny: @BoeingBus you forgot some things in your statement about new engines for the A388. 1. EIS of the B787-10X is around 5!!! years after the A388... 2. T
68 FlyDreamliner: I agree. Since I believe Air France is planning on having 773ER be its largest ship when the 744s retire, I don't see KL going with the A380. Some of
69 Zvezda: Sorry, the A350 and B787 will be substantially quieter than the WhaleJet. CI's denial of the report that they had already decided to order the SuperJ
70 LPLAspotter: HURRAY! I'm probably being too optimistic but I'd love to see the 747-8 rack up orders as high as the 787. Oh well, I can always dream. LPLAspotter
71 DeltaDC9: Can you please stop calling it that? Once design is frozen and parts are made it is no longer a "paper" airplane, it just hasnt flown yet. You seem t
72 KLMCedric: I think you might have forgotten about the ten incoming A380's at AF!
73 Johnny: @FlyDeamliner Where have you been the last month, that you forget one of the biggest A388 customers so far ..? That will be the biggest airplane of Ai
74 Manni: I said CI denied that they had ordered the 748, not that they denied considering to purchase it, just as they consider purchasing the A380. Furthermo
75 Jacobin777: At first glance, I also found that to be interesting..but given their needs for enough frames, the A380 might fit in well...it all depends on what de
76 Johnny: @DeltaDC9 An airplane is called a paper-airplane until the first one is completed!
78 RJ111: ...and the logical one. It's still a "paper airplane", as it currently only exists as a whole, on paper (on computer).
79 DeltaDC9: Sorry, but I believe it is comnpletely subjective. And the main point of the post the motive behind using it in a bad light.
80 RJ111: Well if it is subjective then you should be able to appreciate the context in which Jonny used it, which implied that the aircraft is yet to prove its
81 DeltaDC9: I think what we disagree on IS the context, and what is implied, which is nothing more than A vs B crap.
82 Revelation: So, now you are trying to make your point by saying that EK has confirmed (cough, cough) that it MIGHT buy additional A380s. This is the same airline
83 Poitin: Ah, yes, I see. Airbus wants only real Chinese customers. When will Chairman Hu make a state visit to Airbus in Toulouse, like the state visit he mad
84 Khobar: So by that definition the A380 is also a paper airplane despite the fact that it exists? Interesting...
85 Pavlin: ggggg The only whale jet would be A300 Beluga (whale by the way) not A380 (superjumbo BTW)
86 Trex8: its not "his" 744, its Air Chinas, anymore than when Blair flies on a 777 its his and not BAs.
87 Poitin: Nor does Dubya own Air Force One --either of them. Those belong to the USAF. However, if you think you are going to ride on the Chairman's Air China
88 Trex8: I didn't realize its in a permanent VIP configuration.
89 FlyingHippo: Oh boy, my heart skipped a beat when I saw the headlines, but after futher reading, I came back to reality. CI ordering any planes will have politcal
90 Trex8: it makes perfect sense, the computer parts are not heavy, they will bulk out before they weigh out the plane and if the A380 performs as planned (whi
91 BCBHokie: What way too many people fail to realize is that "huge corporations" are huge because they consist of a bunch of real human beings who are working to
92 Alexchao: I think the 748 fits well into China Airlines' fleet simplication plan. Eventually, they can replace both their 747 passenger and freighers.
93 FlyingHippo: That is true, however, the MX cost to maintain them would sky rocket! Having a feet of 4-6 A388s is just efficient when it comes to MX. Also, 748I wo
94 PlaneHunter: The "natural fit" often is non-issue as we have seen countless times. And I doubt credibility can be gained considering that quote: The Taiwan govern
95 Trex8: and an order for A350s will work well for them with same crews as A330 and same engines as 747-8
96 Poitin: I hope you don't think he'd fly coach? Of course it is a VIP ship. He is the chairman of the biggest gawdamn corporation in the world, PRC, Inc. He n
97 FlyingHippo: 110% agreed. I've stated before that I think CI will order 748I/F for their current 744s, and A350 to replace A343 at first, and then A359 to replace
99 Ken777: If the price of fuel continues to rise then a LTO of people who would be flying on vacation will be spending their holiday money on gas (petrol & hom
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The order is quid pro quo for playing the Taiwanese anthem when PRC's president Hu Jintao was in D.C.
You won't believe what Boeing has in mind for the 8 all I can say is watch out Airbus the A-380 is already obsolete.
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