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Boeing Celebrates Second Anniversary Of Dreamliner  
User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3374 times:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q2/060426e_nr.html

Market Response

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is the most successful new airplane launch in the history of Boeing, outpacing the popular 747, 777 and even the 737 Next-Generation for the same points in history relative to launch.

To date, 29 customers have made orders or commitments for 393 airplanes -- 350 of those are firm orders worth roughly $51 billion at current list prices. The first three years of production are sold out and demand for subsequent years is high.

"Market response to this airplane is unprecedented," said Bair. "Every way we look at it -- the number of customers, the variety of customers in terms of location and business model, the number of orders and even repeat business -- we just couldn't be happier.

"We have active proposals in the hands of 30 customers for an additional 500 airplanes. These are proposals that the airlines have requested and are actively considering. We are bringing the right airplane to market."

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBestpilot From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Quoting Sangas (Thread starter):
"Every way we look at it -- the number of customers, the variety of customers in terms of location and business model, the number of orders and even repeat business -- we just couldn't be happier.

LIAR! They'd be happier if the the US airlines weren't in the tank. A nice big order from AA of UA to replace the aging 67's would make Boeing happier.


User currently offlineMrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

Interesting comments in the press release:

"We have active proposals in the hands of 30 customers for an additional 500 airplanes. These are proposals that the airlines have requested and are actively considering. We are bringing the right airplane to market."

"In the past 24 months, the 787 team has demonstrated the composite manufacturing technology that will allow the Dreamliner to be made primarily of this superior material. Nine composite fuselage sections have been manufactured at facilities in Seattle and Wichita, Kansas. A demonstration wing box has also been built in Seattle. Extensive testing on systems components is also under way at sites around the world. In addition, both the General Electric and Rolls-Royce engines have started their test programs."

"There are now 135 sites around the world where the design of the 787 can proceed using the new digital design tools being provided by Dassault Systemes. With more than three million square feet of new factory space being built around the globe to support the manufacturing of the Dreamliner, the project is the world's largest industrialization effort. "



The dude abides
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3174 times:

Quoting Bestpilot (Reply 3):
LIAR! They'd be happier if the the US airlines weren't in the tank. A nice big order from AA of UA to replace the aging 67's would make Boeing happier.

to be honest I think they are actually happy that the US airlines are not ready to order the dreamliner in serious quantities because having to run 100 of those things off for US, 50 or so for AA and 50 for DL would mean production for 3 years is taken up. I think Boeing knows they've got AA and DL in the bag so you can count on at least 100 orders from them at a later point perhaps when there are loads of available production slots. At the same time, Boeing is weary, i'm sure, of the financial stability of these airlines and whether or not they will be around to oder these jets 3 or 4 years from now!!!!

cheers
AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Quote:
Boeing is set to deliver the new 787 on time. "Right now, this looks like the best-run development program I've ever seen," Bell said.

Bell said that while executives always worry about unexpected challenges, so far the program is going more smoothly than anyone could have predicted.

He cited good progress in developing the manufacturing technology for the 787, noting that in November two of the large composite-plastic fuselage sections were successfully joined.

Boeing's major partners in Japan, Italy and South Carolina have begun building factories for the sections they will supply, and everything remains on schedule for a projected entry into service in 2008, Bell said.

"We're well within the budget, well within the business case, and it really does look good," Bell said.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...aerospace/2002955772_boeing27.html


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2950 times:

Quoting Sangas (Thread starter):
"Market response to this airplane is unprecedented," said Bair

You know, everytime I hear to see this type of statement I want to scream "FREAKING DUH!" simply because 787 is meant primarily to replace existing aircraft, namely 767/A330, as per carrier's choice.

Of course it will sell like hot cakes, this just isn't a surprise (to me), how is it so surprising to even other aviation fans (who supposedly know about this section of the market)??



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2938 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 8):
Of course it will sell like hot cakes, this just isn't a surprise (to me), how is it so surprising to even other aviation fans (who supposedly know about this section of the market)??

Perhaps because at the end of '04, when the 787 had missed Boeing's "orders and commitments" forecast by a wide margin, weren't a lot of folks proclaiming (prematurely as it turns out) the Dreamliner to be a sales dud?


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2925 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 8):
You know, everytime I hear to see this type of statement I want to scream "FREAKING DUH!" simply because 787 is meant primarily to replace existing aircraft, namely 767/A330, as per carrier's choice.

I think the 787 didn't come out, and the price of fuel hasn't shot up so high, one would not probably see sales of a B767/A330/B772/A343 happening so rapidly, and I think that's what he might be refering too....

the funny thing is all the bozo analysts who were saying that Boeing should dump their civil aviation sector (BCA) are now saying..."Boeing, Boeing, Boeing....greatest thing since sliced bread...buy, buy, buy..".... butthead 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting Sangas (Reply 6):
Perhaps because at the end of '04, when the 787 had missed Boeing's "orders and commitments" forecast by a wide margin, weren't a lot of folks proclaiming (prematurely as it turns out) the Dreamliner to be a sales dud?

I really wish people didn't treat this like a race. Manufacturers make products for future needs, essentially, and (immediate) customers puchase those products per their needs, should they arise. Not every airline needs a particular airplane at this right moment. So what? A manufacturer is responsible for giveing their customers what they want, when they need it. I personally do not care if Boeing sells a thousand this year or if Airbus sells one: This isn't a race. Investors only care about two major points when investing their time and money and effort in a company's vision (i.e. their product): Will it sell how many in a specified time frame, being its projected market forecast? Boeing claims a market for 3500 787-type-aircraft in 20 years and expect to sell atleast half. Some of us honestly wants most of those to sell sooner, why? I have no clue. Doesn't make a difference to me.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
the funny thing is all the bozo analysts who were saying that Boeing should dump their civil aviation sector (BCA) are now saying..."Boeing, Boeing, Boeing....greatest thing since sliced bread...buy, buy, buy.."....

People in general think in terms of now, they do not like to look ahead; they can but it requries thinking which wastes time that is so precious in the now. Maybe this is why some folks make big deals about product sales, as if time stops tomorrow, we have to live in this moment and judge today. We have this need to speed up time as if it is not worth waiting for the punchline, as if we want to move on to other things. We can talk about 787 today, A380 tomorrow, oil the day after, etc. If someone tosses in a BWB or sonic, slap them around cuz everyone judges in the now (sometimes based on very limited knowledge, etc) Big grin

I'm technically quite happy right actually, pardon my random bitterness, I'm close to a design freeze of my own, after 8 years of self-research and I'm celebrating with Taco Bell Baja Blast  Smile



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 8):
People in general think in terms of now, they do not like to look ahead; they can but it requries thinking which wastes time that is so precious in the now. Maybe this is why some folks make big deals about product sales, as if time stops tomorrow, we have to live in this moment and judge today. We have this need to speed up time as if it is not worth waiting for the punchline, as if we want to move on to other things. We can talk about 787 today, A380 tomorrow, oil the day after, etc. If someone tosses in a BWB or sonic, slap them around cuz everyone judges in the now (sometimes based on very limited knowledge, etc)

you might be correct..but an analyst's job is to look ahead..if they can't do that, then what the bloody 'ell are they being paid for  confused 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 5):
You know, everytime I hear to see this type of statement I want to scream "FREAKING DUH!" simply because 787 is meant primarily to replace existing aircraft, namely 767/A330, as per carrier's choice.

Not quite. If you look at the airlines who have ordered it, many don't have so many 767/A332/A300 class aircraft.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineBoeingfanyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

Although they're not in the air yet, happy birthday!

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 



"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
you might be correct..but an analyst's job is to look ahead..if they can't do that, then what the bloody 'ell are they being paid for?

A company will not invest in a product even if a customer needs/wants it unless they can get something out of it. If you believe in this, then you must also consider that not every forecasted product will get produced as well as not every forecasted product for analysis is optimized. From the latter I mean that modern technology is not alway practical and can skew need for something.

This is what I meant: From Boeing's CMO 2004, it clearly states a need for some 4000 new RJ's in the world aviation market from 2004 - 2024 (this forecast changes every year of course). Boeing doesn't offer any products such as RJ's. We have another thread about Bombardier forecasting 400 RJ's in India over a similar time period. In my opinion and common sense, Bombardier is in a better position than Boeing because they have something to offer. Note: just because Boeing may not make a profit with the number they forecasted, this does not mean there isn't a market for them.

So I ask, why aren't there any SST's in BCMO 2004? Same reason, the investment is not worth the number of units forecasted. Personally, I want those forecasts, I want to see them and the type offered to represent that data. My only educated guess: Because no company is currently in a position to make such a product, the research will appear to be a waste. Moreover, there is no reference type offered to represent any data, which will most certainly change the forecast dramatically. Boeing has more important priorities at the moment, 787 and whatever 737RS becomes (no, I am not going to assume 737RS will be 797, ya'll can do that)



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
you might be correct..but an analyst's job is to look ahead..if they can't do that, then what the bloody 'ell are they being paid for

Like a lot of corporate people, to give bad advice and do stupid things.  Big grin



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 12):
A company will not invest in a product even if a customer needs/wants it unless they can get something out of it. If you believe in this, then you must also consider that not every forecasted product will get produced as well as not every forecasted product for analysis is optimized. From the latter I mean that modern technology is not alway practical and can skew need for something.



Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 13):

Like a lot of corporate people, to give bad advice and do stupid things.

Lephron, you might have a more analytical and detailed answer...but I think Antoneimey's response was more correct... thumbsup 


it is one thing to forecast the amount of frames needed by the global air carriers, but its another thing for analysts to come on public media and say that BCA is over and they need to sell it..

these are the same morons who were saying to buy JDSUniphase at $150 and were claiming that Cisco Systems should be worth $1 t-t-t-Trillion in market cap... spin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
Lephron, you might have a more analytical and detailed answer...but I think Antoneimey's response was more correct...

Sometimes I wish I could get to the point. But then in my experience, the less I say, the chances increase someone will misinterpret me and insist that was what I meant. Deal with it. Big grin

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
it is one thing to forecast the amount of frames needed by the global air carriers, but its another thing for analysts to come on public media and say that BCA is over and they need to sell it..

The current business market (i.e. us), IMO, is results obcessed*. You remember the reactions about 7E7 and recently A350's cabin interior from a few weeks ago, people expect concepts to represent real life -- that is not what they are for, but people still expect it because they are used to seeing what usually occurs**.

*/** Technically we cannot blame them, a little ignorance is required to learn anything (there is a non-ignorant method of learning, its known as curiosity).

As a business looking for investors, it would not be smart to call them ignorant without convining them of something, making it worth their wild. IMO, many big businesses have not been doing much in terms of innovation, per se, just if to satisfy their investors requires cash, do what works -- hence 787. I hope at least Boeing's latest BWB concepts may bear fruit.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 15):
*/** Technically we cannot blame them, a little ignorance is required to learn anything (there is a non-ignorant method of learning, its known as curiosity).

as a former scientist, I prefer curiosity (with humility) over ignorance any day of the year.. Wink

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 15):
As a business looking for investors, it would not be smart to call them ignorant without convining them of something, making it worth their wild. IMO, many big businesses have not been doing much in terms of innovation, per se, just if to satisfy their investors requires cash, do what works -- hence 787. I hope at least Boeing's latest BWB concepts may bear fruit.

I think the 787 is extremely innovative...Boeing has pushed the envelope quite a bit with the 787, hence it being one of the (if not the) fastest selling widebody civilian twin in history...

and I do hope Boeing develops a BWB....that would be really cool!



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
I think the 787 is extremely innovative...Boeing has pushed the envelope quite a bit with the 787, hence it being one of the (if not the) fastest selling widebody civilian twin in history...

Personally don't see the latter as a big deal, but I do agree 787 is so far the most innovative they have been with commercial airliners, until the next one. Boeing has let me down in the past decade of watching them closely; my bar is set up higher.  Wink

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
and I do hope Boeing develops a BWB....that would be really cool!

Quote from a Discovery Channel special on future aircraft, "new airplanes facinate people young and old, but that doesn't mean they'll step aboard."  

[Edited 2006-05-01 11:18:03]


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
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