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LY To Get 3rd 767-300  
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

It looks like this A330 deal was a stunt.
It turns out LY will get its third 767-300 in Nov. of this year.
This will join 4x-EAJ, ann 4x-EAP (MAY 2006).
LY is trying to close a deal with Boeing to swap its 767's for 787 (and obviously add some cash).
Could someone find out more?
Where is the a/c coming from? Used or New?
Could it be comng from airbus, any chances it might be a 764?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9720 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

Quoting Amirs (Thread starter):
It looks like this A330 deal was a stunt.
It turns out LY will get its third 767-300 in Nov. of this year.

What's your source? LY can also add more 763s as an interim solution until their A330s arrive. Secondhand A330s are nowhere to find, so LY can never get these until they will receive their first A330 (if they indeed ordered them of course).

A388


User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

thank g-d... little scare these past couple of weeks. although, technically we're not outta the woods yet... but i don't see ELY leasing 767's until 330's arrive... one would assume the current 767's could hold up a year or two... if they're leasing Boeing's now I would think its a temporary solution for the next 3-4 years which would indicate a wait for the 787.

don't think it will be a 764. as far as i know the only ones ever made went straight to Delta and Continental... Meaning I don't even think there is any available for lease unless DAL is giving some up... which i doubt.

[Edited 2006-04-27 21:04:51]

User currently offlineTodaReisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2804 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 2):
don't think it will be a 764. as far as i know the only ones ever made went straight to Delta and Continental

Is the 764 no more in production??



I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

I have a feeling that this 767 is only a supplement until the A330 deal can be made and they arrive. Then again, US-Israeli politics could hinder an A330 deal.

UAL


User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3131 times:

Quoting TodaReisinger (Reply 3):
Is the 764 no more in production??

I believe it can be produced if ordered but all the orders have dried up. the -400 was always a tweener and didn't match up well with the A330. A family friend who is a -400 captain says its handling characteristics arn't that good and its noticeably under powered.

I don't know too terribly much about the bird... I always thought it was a great high density domestic mover but it seems as if Delta and Continental believe its best usage to be in the International market. Perhaps TLV might see one when Delta starts up JFK-TLV again.

I don't see this bird in the ELY fleet unless they can get a temporary lease... why buy this when you can lease a -300 for 3-4 years and then get some 787's?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
I have a feeling that this 767 is only a supplement until the A330 deal can be made and they arrive. Then again, US-Israeli politics could hinder an A330 deal.

How long could it take Airbus to deliver a few A330's... a year? maybe two max. I think ELY can stretch their old birds a few more years... In my opinion, a lease would signify a longer wait for new birds... meaning 787.

As Amir pointed out... this lease is not till november so its obviously not for increased summer traffic... so this has to be tied in with a possible future aircraft order.

[Edited 2006-04-28 00:35:45]

User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

To me this seems like LY was twisting Boeing's arm to get one hell of a deal for some 767 (interim) and 787s eventually. It would have been great to see Airbus making some headway in Boeing strongholds like Boeing did last year with NW, AC (sort of), but Boeing cheerleaders can breath a sigh of relief- for now, because I am certain that someday in the forseeable future, AIrbus will have the perfect 'bird' for some of Boeing's most loyal customers, and they will be compelled to order- however, just as a jab, i highly doubt the compelling bird is the A350 or A380 in their current forms!!!

Cheers
AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2902 times:

Accordint to the article I read this morning (written by the same reporter that originally reported the A330 deal) it looks like LY is still in talks with Boeing to upgrade their current 767, including the ninth 767 they will get in November.
They will either operate the 767 until they get the 787 or they will go with the airbus deal to get INTERIM A330 til they can get their hands on A350's.
When are the first slots available for A350's?


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9720 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2874 times:

Quoting Amirs (Reply 7):
When are the first slots available for A350's?

I'm not sure when the A350 slots are available but they will be available at approximately the same time as Boeing can possibly deliver the 787 to LY. The 787 orderbook so far is already fully booked for two years after the first 787 rolls out the factory. The A350 rolls out the factory about two years after the first 787 rolls out, correct? Maybe there's someone else with more insight in the slot allocations for both the 787 and A350.

A388


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
The 787 orderbook so far is already fully booked for two years after the first 787 rolls out the factory. The A350 rolls out the factory about two years after the first 787 rolls out, correct? Maybe there's someone else with more insight in the slot allocations for both the 787 and A350.

IIRC the 787 is sold out for the first 3 years. Airbus might not be able to deliver the A350 before Boeing can deliver the 787, but Airbus is able to deliver A330's in a reasonable amount of time. It could be 2011, or another 5 years before LY can get their hands on the first 787. Is LY willing to keep their worn out 767's another 5 years?

With going A330 now..
LY would be able to offer flights on brandnew aircraft, instead of their worn out 767's. Unless they decide to renew their current 767 fleet almost completely with new 767's for now.
It would operate the most economical aircraft in its class for now.
LY will be able to generate a lot more revenue from cargo, or reduce flying with the 742F fuel leaks due to the extra space aboard the A330.



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User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

I'm sure Boeing can offer a 767 makeover as part of the deal as they did with AC. What variants do you think ElAL will select IF they go with the Dreamliner? 788, 9 and -10X???? or just 8/9??????? any chance of the 3????
Also- what sort of numbers- are we talking???

Cheers
AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9720 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

The A330 is indeed much better than the worn out LY 767s. How old are the LY 777s? I was thinking (a bit too far ahead maybe), but could LY replace their 777s with the A359 on the longer term? This could be attractive to LY when looking at it on the longer term. The same actually goes for the 787-10.

A388


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2779 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
I have a feeling that this 767 is only a supplement until the A330 deal can be made and they arrive. Then again, US-Israeli politics could hinder an A330 deal.

I am of that same opinion.  Smile

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Could ELY lease the 787 from ILFC or LCAL until the can get a slot? I know ILFC and LCAL have slots... I believe deliveries are as early as 2009. Are these aircraft already spoken for?

User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
It could be 2011, or another 5 years before LY can get their hands on the first 787. Is LY willing to keep their worn out 767's another 5 years?

It wont be 5 years, EL AL has already been promised by Boeing to get slots for 2010. I think part of the negotiation now is to try to get earlier slots or some form of interim solution.

Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
How old are the LY 777s

LY has 3 from 2001, one from 2002 and two more they will get next year.
If anything they might get 787-9 and -10 to compliment the 777 fleet in the future, these 777 are only 4/5 years old.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
Also- what sort of numbers- are we talking???

I think they are talking about 10/11 a/c.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
any chance of the 3????

With that capacity they might be only able to use it on LHR and CDG flights. I think they will stick with -8 and maybe -9.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 13):
Could ELY lease the 787 from ILFC or LCAL until the can get a slot? I know ILFC and LCAL have slots... I believe deliveries are as early as 2009. Are these aircraft already spoken for?

LCAL is a leasing company based in Kuwait. Would they even be willing to lease their aircraft to an Israelli airline? Would LY want to lease from a company based in Kuwait?



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User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2453 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 15):

LCAL is a leasing company based in Kuwait. Would they even be willing to lease their aircraft to an Israelli airline? Would LY want to lease from a company based in Kuwait?

Personally, I'm thinking no, and no. But that's just me.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

If LY was really getting a third 763, where would it come from? The same goes for 4X-EAP. All I know is that 4X-EAJ is an former DE aircraft (D-ABUY), though it didn't stay long after 2 years and spent most of the time with carriers such as Air Europe, Volare, Sobelair and even Dutch Carribean (at least according to Airfleets).

User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 17):
The same goes for 4X-EAP

EAP is coming from Air Atlantic in Iceland.


User currently offlineCY319 From Cyprus, joined Apr 2006, 396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

once more LY proves its addiction to boeing  Smile
no wonder why...

on the other hand it seems a logical solution since they already have quite a few B767. a leased 330,340 would be a disaster to their direct operating costs as it would add extra maintenance,pilot&crew costs.



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