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Why Would United Fly PHX-TUS  
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4108 times:

So, I was looking something else up and discovered that United 953 tags PHX-TUS after arriving PHX from IAD. Why would United fly this rather oddball routing, particularly with an A320?


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4102 times:

Why not? If there is sufficient loads and the plane has no where else to go..... Also it my be a good way for UA to stick a thumb in the eye of HP.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4091 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Why not? If there is sufficient loads and the plane has no where else to go.....

That plane is probably wheels up-wheels down in 20 minutes, there is no real reason for a mainline flight. Besides, I really doubt anyone flies that O&D

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Also it my be a good way for UA to stick a thumb in the eye of HP.

Uh, why?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4329 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4083 times:

Aren't they both in the Star Alliance, maybe a code share or is the US/HP combination now more competitive against United again?


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4079 times:

Well, during the high season, the a/c used is a B757. The flight provides TUS most direct service to the capital area, and with that, also with UA provides the easiest connections further on to int'l destinations via the IAD hub. Arrival time from IAD is also a bit early for UA ops in PHX, so with the TUS tag on, the a/c doesnt have to sit and clog a gate nor have to be tugged to the apron area to sit overnight.

One last thing bout this, I didn't know until my friend's mother who works in PHX pointed out, she said and I never realized that this flight did also offer an excellent choice for same day travel from TUS to the bay area. Connection through PHX to Ted to SFO and mid morning arrival, late afternoon departure from SFO back to PHX and connect and into TUS late evening. Now, UA Express does have a CRJ nonstop once daily, but before this PHX would have quite a few connecting pax on this route


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4079 times:

Not sure if they still do, but Delta used to fly ATL-TUL-OKC. The TUL-OKC was about 15-20 min long.

UAL


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 4):
Well, during the high season, the a/c used is a B757. The flight provides TUS most direct service to the capital area, and with that, also with UA provides the easiest connections further on to int'l destinations via the IAD hub. Arrival time from IAD is also a bit early for UA ops in PHX, so with the TUS tag on, the a/c doesnt have to sit and clog a gate nor have to be tugged to the apron area to sit overnight.

Why not just send an A319 non-stop?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

DL used to operate PHX-TUS as a tag-on leg to ATL-PHX many years ago as well. IIRC, their presence in TUS back then was very limited, and I'm not even sure if they had any nonstop ATL-TUS back then, though they definitely still had the flight once there was nonstop service. Though it's not like there aren't (or weren't) many other questionable mainline routes out there.

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3999 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 4):
Well, during the high season, the a/c used is a B757. The flight provides TUS most direct service to the capital area, and with that, also with UA provides the easiest connections further on to int'l destinations via the IAD hub. Arrival time from IAD is also a bit early for UA ops in PHX, so with the TUS tag on, the a/c doesnt have to sit and clog a gate nor have to be tugged to the apron area to sit overnight.

Why not just send an A319 non-stop?

The not clogging an extra gate @ PHX is the reason that I have always heard about the TUS tag on the IAD flight. Even if there was enough demand to warrant an A319 flight you'd still have the problem of an extra plane sitting in Phoenix for a few hours during the morning push.

And the TUS tags used to be much more common. Even after Delta started n/s service to ATL in 1999 or so, they still operated TUS-PHX-ATL flight and even for a short while TUS-ABQ-ATL. Both flights are gone now.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17544 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
If there is sufficient loads and the plane has no where else to go

Definitely not sufficient loads...it ran an average load of 37% for the twelve months ending Jan06.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Definitely not sufficient loads...it ran an average load of 37% for the twelve months ending Jan06.

37% may be sufficient in this case as it may be enough to cover the marginal expense of the flight (as opposed to 0% for just sitting in PHX and additional expense of needing another gate or towing the plane to an empty parking place for a couple of hours).


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

US Airways just announced it is replacing one of its express flights to TUS with mainline. It is the late moring departure from PHX to TUS and the return.

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3696 times:

Also Northwest used to run a 727 routing of MEM-PHX-TUS and America West used to run a number of mainline service between the two cities. Actually its no different than United running SFO-OAK or Air Cal SFO-SJC.

[Edited 2006-04-28 20:11:44]

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3671 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Basically all this flight is, is a flight that operates one-stop IAD-TUS that probably can't fully support non-stop IAD service. Also, connections are minimal on TUS-PHX, and so is O&D.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

DL operates(or operated) ATL-TUS with a MD-88 (one of the longest MD-8X sectors in the US).  Smile


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Many airlines over the years have flow TUS-PHX as tag-ons to other
legs as others have mentioned. TW used to fly TUS-PHX and then
fly PHX-MCI. At the time, I don't know if they flew TUS-STL or not.


User currently offlineAlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3446 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
DL operates(or operated) ATL-TUS with a MD-88 (one of the longest MD-8X sectors in the US).

They fly ATL-PHX as well, which is longer.

As for the UA flight from PHX-TUS, no, it doesn't have to do with Star Alliance, because the route existed before the US/HP merger. The overall flight is actually FRA-IAD-PHX-TUS, with a plane change in IAD. My guess is that everyone on UA's PHX-TUS route is going to or from IAD (either as a final destination or to connect somewhere else).


User currently offlineWadnet From Mexico, joined Mar 2006, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

Yes at one time TWA had 2 non-stop flights from TUS - STL. They also operated at one time an L-1011 from TUS-PHX-JFK. They later changed the routing on the L-1011 back to its original JFK-PHX-LAS and used a 727 from PHX - TUS to feed into the JFK flt.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3310 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 12):
Actually its no different than United running SFO-OAK

Those were maintainance flights that they sold tickets on



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 3):
Aren't they both in the Star Alliance, maybe a code share or is the US/HP combination now more competitive against United again?

I believe that UA has been operating this route since long before US Airways even became a Star Alliance member. Also I believe that United does not codeshare with America West operated flights. The two airlines still have not been fully integrated.

I would guess that it might be cheaper to leave the plane in Tuscon than keep it in Phoenix. Even with low loads, the cheaper airport can have its benefits. And plus with the way that airlines pay their crews, it isn't costing them very much to fly that short tag on flight.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Those were maintainance flights that they sold tickets on

Don't think so. Took one that went SFO-OAK-PDX, another SFO-OAK-DEN. These 727 flights were in the early 70's prior to UA purchasing the World Airways maintenance base. Both flights left SFO very early I think prior to 6 am.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 20):
Don't think so. Took one that went SFO-OAK-PDX, another SFO-OAK-DEN. These 727 flights were in the early 70's prior to UA purchasing the World Airways maintenance base. Both flights left SFO very early I think prior to 6 am.

That is possible, as a way to rotate the aircraft. Of course, those flights didn't backtrack  Wink



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBayareapilot From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Why are we comparing this to routes from the 70s?  confused  The airline industry was completely different then in so many ways.

User currently offlineUnited737522 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
That plane is probably wheels up-wheels down in 20 minutes, there is no real reason for a mainline flight. Besides, I really doubt anyone flies that O&D



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Definitely not sufficient loads...it ran an average load of 37% for the twelve months ending Jan06

I disagree, last time I was in PHX, they were looking for volunteers to give up their seat and take a bus to TUS.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Quoting United737522 (Reply 23):
I disagree, last time I was in PHX, they were looking for volunteers to give up their seat and take a bus to TUS.

One flight. MaverickM11 gave you hard DOT numbers.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Laxintl : I've actually flown the flight twice, once before UA had LAX-TUS nonstop service. Took and evening UA Shuttle 737 to PHX and boarded mainline 737 to T
26 N1120A : Except of course that those services were usually tags to flights that couldn't get out of SAN and make it to Hawai'i
27 FCYTravis : Oddly enough, you can't even fly LAX-PHX on UA mainline anymore. Not even TED (RAR!) - it's just SkyWest CRJ-200 city.
28 RoseFlyer : With United going head to head with 16 (almost hourly) flights on Southwest and 10 more with America West, there is no hope in the route. There are a
29 DesertJets : And it has been that way since Shuttle was dismantled post 9/11.
30 Trvlr : Not usually. In the 80s, pretty much every major airline had LAX-SAN tags to flights that originated in BOS, IAD, ORD, STL, ATL and the like. These f
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