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SFO Departure Question.  
User currently offlineBrucek From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 264 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2055 times:

I recently flying out on the UA service to SYD (YSSY), Australia, from SFO, we departed on runway 10R, then flew what appeared to be a course up the middle of the bay (including a bank to the left, which is a northerly turn- not on the way to SYD  Smile ), before turning right and flying out over the west bay hills in the vicinity of San Jose.

I have lived in SFO and know that 28L/R and usually used for arrivals and some departures, and have never been on a flight using the reciprocal runway. The weather was raining on departure, so winds may have played a part in this runway assignment. Anyone seen this before? I had expected a departure on 28 L or R, and was very surprised to see 10 being used. The flight up the middle of the bay made me wonder if this was perhaps a noise abatement procedure, as it was around 11PM.

Thanks- Bruce.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6101 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

You took off on 10, which heads southeast. They took up up the bay for two reasons, though, one of which you mentioned, which was the noise abatement. The other thing they are doing is getting the aircraft ready to enter a corridor used for transpacific fliights by bringing them up the bay to allow for spacing on the overwater route that they filed.


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User currently offlineBrucek From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

Thanks GoldenShield, that's very interesting about the timing to enter the TransPac system, I'm surprised that a hold at release on the ground isn't used for this purpose too.

Bruce.


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Quoting Brucek (Reply 2):
I'm surprised that a hold at release on the ground isn't used for this purpose too.

It is, but nothing is perfect and there may have been other factors.



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User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6896 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
The other thing they are doing is getting the aircraft ready to enter a corridor

He probably didn't intend to suggest that's why they took off on runway 10 instead of 28. Runway 10 departures are the usual during rainy weather, and if winds permit they'd probably like to use the 10s at 11 PM anyway-- but corridor timing wouldn't affect the runway choice.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

What you described are Standard Instrument Departures or SIDs as we call them. Each SID takes aircraft from a particular runway via a standard routing to a fix (or waypoint) which connects onto an airway route. No matter which runway you use you will always join the airway structure at the same point.

For example from Stansted there are 2 Dover SIDs. One for 05 and one for 23. Each will have a different routing but both ending up at Dover which then joins onto a route out the Channel towards Holland.

SIDs will have altitude restrictions (to procedurally separate aircraft) and speed restrictions (to contain turns because of different aircraft performance).

Some departure fixes are for particular runways not all eg BUZAD/WOBUN from EGLL. Some SIDs are for hi/lo performance aircraft only eg Edinburgh. Some are day/night SIDs for noise abatement. Some are in use only in corordiantion with neighbouring airports.

But essentially they are all routes that leads you out of the airport to the airway. The alternative is to vector every single departure to their departure fix which is obviously a lot of work.



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User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6896 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

It seems UA and QF leave around the same time for SYD, but SYD flights apparently don't use the tracks to Hawaii, so likely the only thing they'd have to wait on would be each other. So you'd think they could wait on the ground, if needed.

[Edited 2006-04-28 18:31:49]

User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6101 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 4):
He probably didn't intend to suggest that's why they took off on runway 10 instead of 28. Runway 10 departures are the usual during rainy weather, and if winds permit they'd probably like to use the 10s at 11 PM anyway-- but corridor timing wouldn't affect the runway choice.

No, timing doesn't, but the wind and noise abatement does. I had a train-of-thought typo in my last post, so I can see the confusion there. It's pretty rare that the 10's are used for departure during 0500-2000 local time, though.



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User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Wasn't rare at all the past three months or so!

Landing on the 1s...now that's rare!

[Edited 2006-04-28 18:40:05]


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User currently offlineTinkerbelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 8):
Landing on the 1s...now that's rare!

I don't think I've ever witnessed a 1 landing but taking off on a 747 from 1 is really cool.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting Tinkerbelle (Reply 9):

I don't think I've ever witnessed a 1 landing but taking off on a 747 from 1 is really cool.

oye......haven't seen you in a while mate!...and yah.....watching 747's taking off from the 1's are amazing.....I even video recorded a BA and VS heavy taking off from 1R..... biggrin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBrucek From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1766 times:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 8):
Landing on the 1s...now that's rare!

I would think next to impossible, or if possible would require a sharp turn to short final I would think  Smile

Bruce.


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

Quoting Brucek (Reply 11):

I would think next to impossible, or if possible would require a sharp turn to short final I would think

Quite possible, they just don't ever do it unless they have no choice.



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User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Quoting Brucek (Reply 11):
I would think next to impossible, or if possible would require a sharp turn to short final I would think

it does happen from time-to-time, it depens on the winds, and it always happens in the mornings...I almost made it to SFO to watch some, but by the time I got their, they started arriving on the 28's again.. Sad



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDreamflight767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1642 times:
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It is very safe to say that when it is raining, especially heavily, that SFO will use the 10s. This is a regular practice during the winter wet months. Landing on the 10s is more uncommon than departures. I guess when the rain rolls in, the wind shifts to the south and makes the 10s a better runway for departure.

SFO will use the 28s even if there is a southerly wind but only if it is dry. One time while listening to my scanner, a controller said that the airport procuders require them to use the 10s and 19s when it rains because the runways were too wet with a cross wind. So if I interpret this right, its OK to use the 28s and 1s with a cross wind, but only when dry.

However, TACA is a regular user of the 10s. I often hear them request to depart using the 10s even during the summer while most traffic is using the 28s and 1s for landing and take off. I guess they want to save fuel so they don't have to make that long left turn over the city after departure. Immediately after take off, they make a hard left turn to avoid traffic on base and final. But its kinda funny because the taxi from terminal A, the one TACA uses, is at the other end of the airport. And when they use the 10s, they often have to hold short of the runway for along time so ATC can make hole for them in the traffic flow. I would think with this long taxi and holding, they would use just as much fuel up.


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