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717 Trouble Already  
User currently offlineAirbpman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

I understand it's a new model, and there are a few bugs, but this is frightening:

On May 26, 2000, about 1013 eastern daylight time, a Boeing 717-200, N945AT, registered to and operated by Airtran Airways Inc., as a Title 14 CFR Part 121 scheduled domestic passenger flight from Atlanta, Georgia, to Savannah, Georgia, experienced a total electrical failure during rotation and climbout from Atlanta. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and an instrument flight plan was filed. The airline transport-rated pilot, first officer, 3 flight attendants, and 107 passengers were not injured. The flight was originating at the time of the incident. An FAA inspector who investigated the incident stated that during the rotation and departure sequence the airplane experienced a total electrical failure. The captain's and copilot's liquid crystal displays, all communications and all indicators failed, and the crew squawked 7700 and returned to Atlanta. During the approach, the gear had to be lowered using the alternate gear extension system, since the normal gear extension system had failed. The crew made an otherwise uneventful landing, but the gear doors were damaged during taxi.

any thoughts?


28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

Yep, Honeywell built their EFMS on a Friday.


I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineCritter From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 267 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

That glitch has been repaired with the installation of a drip shield over the electrical power center. There must have been moisture dripping on the electrical power controls.

critter


User currently offlineAirbus_a340 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1560 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1270 times:

Hmmmm....i dont know what to say, but thats not a very good start, hope they fix it.
trev*



People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
User currently offlineAKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2194 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

Airpbman:

This is very OLD news. Problem was found and fixed.



User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

Hmmm...could it be Airtran's problem in this case? Just two or three days ago the cockpit of a DC-9 of that airline filled up with smoke and the plane was forced to turn around and head back to the airport. The pilots were even pondering on whether to land on a highway.

User currently offlineCritter From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 267 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1190 times:

Yea .......lets compare apples to oranges!!!!!!!!

critter


User currently offlineAirbpman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1185 times:

Problem was found and fixed.

that's what I was hoping.



User currently offlineAA1645 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1180 times:

It Looks like that the Ground Crew are not doing there jobs two close incidents gets a lot of attention from FAA look at Alaska Airlines.

User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1119 times:

But the plane made it back OK, so good work by the crew.


L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5498 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1109 times:

TWA has had problems like the starter on the engine not working, gear door problems etc. I also found other problems with airtran such as; engine flameouts at cruise altitude, smoke in cockpit, other eletrical problems etc.

User currently offlineDelta777-XXX From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1017 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1097 times:

OH my gosh!   I fly that route all the time! Atlanta to Savannah and back. I always try to get on the 717! WOW! How come I haven't heard this? That is really really scarey. No, I don't think it's Air Tran! Air Tran is a wonderful airline. I hate they had so amny prolbems with ValueJet.   Anyways, yeah... I fly that route and plane all the time! If you hear anything else? Let me know!



User currently offlineDelta777-XXX From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1017 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1089 times:

Airbpman... where did you find that?

User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

These are the kinds of stories that never get told because of the experience of the flight crew.

See technology does fail! (ahem... Airbus  ) That's you need us!

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineSqman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 1042 times:

Hay Pilot1113 you should read the NEWS an Airbus Crashed AGAIN!! this is why American Airlines is buying all Boeing better made aircraft!!! in my eyes airbus is junk end of store!!

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (14 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 1034 times:

Oh really, an AIRBUS crashed AGAIN?
So guy, how many Boeings have crashed so far?

I hope your post was a joke, otherwise you should go to the next brain doctor...

Regards
Udo


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1020 times:

Okay, okay, calm down everyone. Geez, what a fiery group 


Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

SQMan,
Given the number of people that died in the A320 crash today, your comments are pathetic, insensitive and reflect very badly on yourself.

In my eyes you are the junk end of the forum

Have a nice day, not everyone was so lucky.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 980 times:

First of all, Sqman and Udo, be quiet. Your petty squabbling only makes you look childish.

Ahem.... down to business.

All airplanes have teething problems!

It's nothing new. And at least they haven't had any crashes, not like Boeing's 747, Airbus's A320, Cirrus's SR20, and Lancair's Columbia 300. Although the 747 wasn't actually destroyed like the other 3. These problems will be fixed. No one should lose any sleep over it. It's no big deal! Honest!

Even the best commercial jetliner of all time, the L-1011, had some problems, particularly with it's incredibly advanced autopilot (I think). 


User currently offlineDelta777-XXX From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1017 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 977 times:

MD-90.... that was great! What happend with the Cirrus SR20 and the Lancair Columbia 300? and what Airbus A320 incident are you talking about?

User currently offlineNWA763 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 978 times:

First of all, we have no clue what happend with the recent crash of the A320. This could have nothing to do with the way the plane was built. Ther are alot of factors that have to happen for a plane to crash. Just blaming a crash on the fault of the maker of the plane is just not right. Let the evidence speak for itself, if it ever does. Let us also keep in mind the Rudder issues with the 737, the reverse thrust issues of the 767, and the issues that they had with the 727 in its early years. No plane is perfect, they all have some problem or another.


NWA763
Minneapolis, MN


User currently offlineDelta777-XXX From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1017 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 977 times:

I just got this from AOL.


"MANAMA, Bahrain (AP) - A Gulf Air Airbus A320 crashed into shallow Persian Gulf waters Wednesday night after circling and trying to land in Bahrain, killing at least 137 people. Rescuers were searching early Thursday for the other six people aboard.

Thirty-six of the 143 people on the flight, which was en route to Manama from Cairo, were children, officials said.

``We have no survivors yet,'' Ibrahim Al-Hamer, Bahrain's undersecretary for civil aviation, said in announcing 137 bodies had been recovered.

There was no immediate word on what caused the crash. Searchers also recovered both flight data recorders, but their contents were unknown.

U.S. Navy helicopters, destroyers and an oceangoing tug with a 10-ton crane joined the nighttime search and rescue effort, three or four miles off the northern coast of Bahrain, which is headquarters of the U.S. 5th Fleet.

Fleet spokesman Cdr. Jeff Gradeck's office said the waters at the crash site were less than 40 feet deep.

An air traffic controller at the Bahrain airport, reached by telephone, described watching the plane attempt to land.

``The plane was near the runway, but didn't land,'' he said, asking that his name not be used. ``It circled two times and the third time it crashed into the sea.''

The controller saw no flames or sign of trouble before the crash and could not immediately explain why the plane circled before landing. He said the plane's crew did not report anything out of the ordinary. He gave the time of the crash as 7:20 p.m. (12:30 p.m. EDT).

``I could not believe my eyes,'' said Sobeih, 27, a resident of the nearby neighborhood of Al-Fodha who saw the plane go down. ``When I saw it heading toward the sea nose down, I screamed 'Oh my God, this thing is going down.'''

Sobeih and Riyadh, 24, another Al-Fodha resident, said the plane flew unusually low over their heads heading to the runway, but took a sharp turn toward the sea.

Both men, who would not give their full names, said the plane returned minutes later flying even lower but headed straight to the sea where it crashed. They said unusual noises came from the plane's engines, but they saw no flames.

``I was in a state of shock,'' said Riyadh.

Gulf Air said in a statement that 135 passengers and eight crew members were on board GF072, an evening Cairo-Bahrain flight.

Gulf Air said in a statement that 135 passengers and eight crewmembers were on board Flight GF072. Lists of passengers' names showed that 36 were under the age of 18. Sixty-three passengers were Egyptian, 34 Bahraini, 12 Saudi, nine Palestinian, six from the United Arab Emirates, three Chinese, two British and one each from Canada, Oman, Kuwait, Sudan and Australia.

And one passenger was believed to be an American. A State Department official in Washington said Bahraini officials had informed them that a boarding pass indicated that a U.S. diplomatic courier was aboard. The courier's name was not immediately released.

The crew included two Bahrainis and one each from Oman, the Philippines, Poland, India, Morocco and Egypt.

Weeping relatives of passengers pleaded with policemen who threw a security ring around the airport outside the capital, Manama. Many did reach the airport, and cries and screams echoed in its halls. Dozens of men and women with reddened eyes and tears flowing down their cheeks wept loudly. Some comforted one another while others screamed out for their loved ones.

Three U.S. helicopters, 10 small boats and the USS Katawba, a tug, joined Bahraini helicopters and boats in the search. Bahraini Crown Prince Sheik Salman bin Hamad Al Khalifa personally directed the effort, the U.S. military said.

The U.S. military pulled back three of the ships it had lent to the effort, with Fleet spokesman Gradeck's office saying early Thursday that the search was ``gearing down.''

Relatives of passengers also gathered at the airport in Cairo, where the flight originated. There were angry scenes when one relative tried to attack news cameramen and complained about the lack of information on the fate of the passengers.

Gulf Air is owned by Bahrain, the Gulf states of Oman and Qatar, as well as Abu Dhabi, the largest of seven sheikdoms making up the United Arab Emirates. Based in Bahrain, it flies to 53 international destinations.

Sheik Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa, the emir of Bahrain, declared three days of mourning and said a committee of Bahraini and foreign experts would investigate the crash. In France, Airbus Industrie said it was dispatching a team of specialists to Bahrain to help in the investigation.

The Airbus plane, delivered to Gulf Air in September 1994, had accumulated about 17,177 flight hours in some 13,848 flights, the Airbus statement said.

In January, an Airbus A310 owned by Kenya Airways crashed into Atlantic Ocean shortly after takeoff from Abidjan, Ivory Coast, to Lagos, Nigeria. Ten people survived, and 169 died. An Air Inter Airbus A320 crashed in 1992 in Strasbourg, France, killing 87 people."




That is sooo sad. Reading it makes you want to cry. You guys please pray for the families.  


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 961 times:

It wasn't pilot error  


Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineDelta777-XXX From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1017 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 953 times:

nah... It couldn't have been pilot error

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (14 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 952 times:

Damn, MD-90, that day is that sad already, I don't need your stupid post additionally! The only childish post came from sqman, and I just told him my opinion about it. If you have any problems with it, keep it for yourself but don't attack me for that.
Better care about your own stuff, buddy.


Regards
Udo


25 Post contains images Pilot1113 : I was only being sarcastic in my last post. I'm sorry to the Airbus camps here. Anyhow, let me emphase my stance here. I think that society places too
26 Post contains images Delta777-XXX : Pillot1113, I agree with you. Although I do not think that this crash was because of the computers. If anything... I would think that they made those
27 Pilot1113 : I love EFIS and I think it's a godsend. However, I long to see analog displays as backups in case something like this happens. Imagine if this happene
28 MD-90 : I know that modern jets have backup generators, batteries, etc., but it still scares me when I see planes that have very fancy EIFS cockpits with elec
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