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Conviasa VS Venezuelan Airlines..?  
User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Seeing the growth of Conviasa on the last few months and the amazingly low fares for example on that CCS-MAR Route Aeropostal 372.000Bs, Conviasa 260.000Bs. It seems as they are going directly after Aeropostal and Santa Barbara's market now that they are getting the ATR42's....
Do you think that Conviasa could cause the collapse of Aeropostal and stop the growth of Santa Barbara? Or do you think that the Venezuelan market is big enough for all of them???


Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

Quoting CCSLSP (Thread starter):
do you think that the Venezuelan market is big enough for all of them???

You are right !!
That is to say, the market is nowhere near big enough for all of them and I can see a distinctive policy by the Government to massacre (eventually) all vestige of competition at home and, most logically too, the foreign routes.

That Conviasa has not grown faster (capitalising the enormous injection of capital and easy-terms loans it has at its disposal) is only because, till about 3 weeks ago, it was headed by someone almost legendary famous for his incompetence: Captain (Venezuelan Air Force.. not commercial aviation !) Wilmar Castro Sotelo.

He was dumped overnight (his dismissal announced to him in typical Chavez fashion by means of the Gaceta Oficial - Official Government Journal) and the airline placed in the hands of the Infrastructure Ministry instead of the Tourism Ministry.

To those not aware of official Venezuelan government policy, it would be correct to state that, since his coming to power, the size of the private sector in Venezuela has shrunk to barely 52% of what it was in 1998.
Over 60% of Venezuela's food needs is imported through a government outfit called Mercal which is run by military buddies, brings merchandise tax and duty free and sells it all at subsidised prices up to 40% lower in several cases than comparable normal private supermarkets.
Venezuela's agricultural output and productivity are at levels comparable to the 1940s as the country is saturated with foreign produce, from chickens and salami to beans and even rice. In 1987, Venezuela even produced surpluses in rice, sugar, beans, coffee and cotton. Today, all, absolutely all, have to be imported.

It does not surprise me one bit that Conviasa's objective on the domestic market is to kill all competition as it is waived landing charges, fuel is purchased at preferential rates or with easy payment terms and, as a State outfit, it can run whatever deficit it desires since its needs will always be topped up by the Treasury.

That is just my vision witnessing current trends and the mirror image of the rest of the economy which is more and more in the hands of the State. Even the banking sector, to those who think banks are "independent" or private.. 65% of all their revenue comes from Venezuelan Treasury Bills. Any time soon, the Government can pull the plug and just about all will collapse !

Greetings from Cancun


User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2873 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 1):
It does not surprise me one bit that Conviasa's objective on the domestic market is to kill all competition as it is waived landing charges, fuel is purchased at preferential rates or with easy payment terms and, as a State outfit, it can run whatever deficit it desires since its needs will always be topped up by the Treasury


That's what it seems, I mean are they making any profits? Or are they just surviving out of government money? I don't see the other Venezuela airlines meeting Conviasa's fares so I really see Conviasa as a tread to Aeropostal, Santa Barbara, Aserca, etc.

[Edited 2006-04-30 22:39:14]


Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

Quoting CCSLSP (Thread starter):
Seeing the growth of Conviasa on the last few months and the amazingly low fares for example on that CCS-MAR Route Aeropostal 372.000Bs, Conviasa 260.000Bs.

I think Aeropostal and Santa Barbara are strong enough to compete against Conviasa. As soon as Conviasa tickets can be sold abroad this might change a bit. But the situation at the moment is, that Aeropostal, Aserca and Santa Barbara tickets can be issued all around the world at high fares in US$, Conviasa tickets not (yet). So they can afford to lower fares for the routes they are competing against Conviasa.
And the routes they really compete (currently) are few:

Aeropostal: on CCS-PMV/CCS-MAR/CCS-BOG Conviasa already lost the battle on CCS-POS and stopped the route.
Aserca: on CCS-PMV/CCS-MAR
Santa Barbara: on no route !

And, by the way, the fare for CCS-MAR on aeropostal.com is now around incredible 250.000 Bs. roundtrip including all taxes.

And: this is NOT cheap !


User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 3):
Aeropostal: on CCS-PMV/CCS-MAR/CCS-BOG Conviasa already lost the battle on CCS-POS and stopped the route.
Aserca: on CCS-PMV/CCS-MAR
Santa Barbara: on no route !

Is the the lowest fare on this segment.

And I though that they stopped CCS-POS because of the incident involving their Dash-7

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 3):
And, by the way, the fare for CCS-MAR on aeropostal.com is now around incredible 250.000 Bs. roundtrip including all taxes.

And: this is NOT cheap !

I know chiguire but Conviasa has three B737-200's at Caracas and they are buying 5 ATR-42's the new routes that they are announcing are all flown either by Aeropostal or Santa barbara....



Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1891 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2754 times:

Quoting Civilav (Reply 1):
It does not surprise me one bit that Conviasa's objective on the domestic market is to kill all competition

Once again, you are right my friend.

The very first time I heard about Conviasa, this was the main rumor. I actually got to speak to one pilot who happened to work for VH and he agreed that Conviasa's 'mission' was to kill the competition and be dominant on the market. I naturally thought that this was another dark-move by our beloved government aiming to bother the private sector. But now, I must say that its a fair competition...

I think that 'if' Conviasa offers a good service, within all the 'rules' there's no reason to hate it. Also, 'if' they show themselves as a good option and a potential airline to carry our flag around the world, then I guess they're welcome.

Honestly, I don't see Aeropostal carrying our flag around the world. They don't deserve it, at leas that's what they've shown us for many years. Perhaps Santa Barbara is the top candidate, but they're facing now against a very rich airline called Conviasa...

I've flown Conviasa once, and some relatives have flown it at least 7 times.. It is no coincidence that we all agree they're doing things right...

Venezuelan aviation has been marked throughout many years in a sad way. If they are to bring us another perspective, then I welcome them, as I said before...

Saludos



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineCCSLSP From Venezuela, joined Apr 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 5):
The very first time I heard about Conviasa, this was the main rumor. I actually got to speak to one pilot who happened to work for VH and he agreed that Conviasa's 'mission' was to kill the competition and be dominant on the market. I naturally thought that this was another dark-move by our beloved government aiming to bother the private sector. But now, I must say that its a fair competition...

I think that 'if' Conviasa offers a good service, within all the 'rules' there's no reason to hate it. Also, 'if' they show themselves as a good option and a potential airline to carry our flag around the world, then I guess they're welcome.

Honestly, I don't see Aeropostal carrying our flag around the world. They don't deserve it, at leas that's what they've shown us for many years. Perhaps Santa Barbara is the top candidate, but they're facing now against a very rich airline called Conviasa...

I've flown Conviasa once, and some relatives have flown it at least 7 times.. It is no coincidence that we all agree they're doing things right...

Venezuelan aviation has been marked throughout many years in a sad way. If they are to bring us another perspective, then I welcome them, as I said before...

I know as you say if the service is good them they shouldn't be a problem but I don't see a fair competition with Aeropostal, Santa Barbara, Aserca, etc. So that is why I see Conviasa as a tread to the Venezuelan airlines (Private).

What I'm saying is that if Conviasa wasn't government owned them they would have the same fares as everyone else.



Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2661 times:

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 6):
if Conviasa wasn't government owned

Your point is 100% accurate.
They may offer good service on board, etc, etc but that is possible undercutting the competition simply because management have no shareholders to answer to !! The airline can run a deficit (like Linea Aeropostal Venezolana did throughout its entire life or VIASA did since 1981 till its demise) knowing full well the Treasury will cover it with extra funds.

Things would be very different if it were a privately run concern, subject to exchange control regulations, payment of navigational and landing charges, prompt payment of fuel (supplied by governent-owned PDVSA) and competitive rates from other airlines.

That is why I fully 100% agree with you that the ultimate aim of Conviasa is to get rid of competition by very unfair means.
That it has not done more damage so far is because it was appallingly run by Wilmar Castro.... but its new President is none other than the head of Venezuela's largest airport (Simon Bolivar in Caracas) and I foresee a bloodier and more aggressive stance in the not-too-distant future.

Greetings from Cancún


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