Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Southwest 737 Jet Lands At Purdue  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3108 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16102 times:

Courtesy: Lafayette Journal and Courier

Southwest 737 Jet Lands At Purdue

http://www.lafayettejc.com/apps/pbcs...?AID=/20060501/NEWS/605010306/1152

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16082 times:

Just an offline diversion due WX/ATC at MDW...

We diverted one to SBN a few weeks ago and you'd think the Concorde had landed...

Big news for small towns, I guess...


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16019 times:

Of course it's big news! Read the article... They don't get anything over a handful of seats at that airport anymore, since American Eagle pulled out.


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineNworlnsbearcub From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15995 times:

That is awesome.. I love hearing of unusual, small airport landings... Imagine seeing Purdue when you don't expect it!

Insane.

Michael
Austin, TX



Long after the thrill of low price, lingers the bad taste of low quality..
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15995 times:

I wonder how did the WN feel to have to buy non-hedged fuel at Perdue.

Leo.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15930 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 2):
Of course it's big news! Read the article... They don't get anything over a handful of seats at that airport anymore, since American Eagle pulled out.

All this since they are "too sacred" to deal with going into ORD. Heaven forbid they ever put one of their a/c on an O'Hare runway!  banghead 



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15902 times:

I guess this was sort of appropriate, since it is a little known fact that Don Ogden (orig VP-Flight Opns for Southwest) hired many, many, many of the original Southwest pilots from supplemental carrier Purdue Airlines when that airline ceased operations.

Purdue flew DC-9s thus it was necessary to send most to Denver for training on the 737-200 at United.

If my memory serves me correctly, Southwest's original "Chief Hostess"...was a lady named Jan Arnold who also came from Purdue.

In addition to their duties with the supplemental/charter carrier Purdue Airlines, while at Purdue, Jan and her staff provided training for the Bunny Hostesses employed by Playboy magnate Hugh Hefner.

>> I wonder how did the WN feel to have to buy non-hedged fuel at Perdue. <<

Let me clear up a common misconception.

Southwest pays the pump price for fuel.

The hedges do not allow them to tell Texaco or Exxon or whoever the fuel provider is "Oh, we're only paying the equivalent of $36 per bbl for our fuel."

Rather, Southwest hedged their fuel through a combination of heating oil, kerosene, and similar commodities on the futures markets.

Somebody might chime in with a more detailed explanation, but Southwest's hedges actually are in the form of futures contracts or options, the profits of which offset the actual price paid at the pump.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6049 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15868 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 5):
All this since they are "too sacred" to deal with going into ORD. Heaven forbid they ever put one of their a/c on an O'Hare runway!

Too scared? Please. The airlines already flying into ORD yesterday were not having and easy day themselves. We're talking flow delays of up to 5 hours for some flights, both mainline and express included, due to the numorous storms rolling through.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineBOS2LAF From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15769 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 5):
All this since they are "too sacred" to deal with going into ORD. Heaven forbid they ever put one of their a/c on an O'Hare runway!

Well, if you were an LCC and had the choice of paying the landing fee at ORD or LAF, which would you choose?


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15732 times:

Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 8):
Well, if you were an LCC and had the choice of paying the landing fee at ORD or LAF, which would you choose?

If ORD got my passengers closer to their destination (which has better connections to the loop than MDW btw) then I'd land there. I don't think the landing fees are much more at ORD than they are at MDW. WN only goes to MDW since they can take over and dominate and run that airport into the ground since there is no WA as their is at DAL. If WN can go into IAD and DEN but why not ORD or DFW? Or for that matter JFK, SFO, IAH or MIA?



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15663 times:

Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 8):
Well, if you were an LCC and had the choice of paying the landing fee at ORD or LAF, which would you choose?

I doubt they could have diverted to ORD unless they declared an emergency. ORD was worse than MDW at that time, so they were in no position to take fuel diversions. I personally am surprised that they didn't fly to IND, but I guess they wanted to save the extra fuel of flying the additional 60 miles to IND. When ORD and MDW get into huge delays, it is usually MKE and IND taking planes. However Gary, Rockford, Madison, Champaign and even Detroit can get diversions for fuel, but most planes have MKE as a listed alternate I think.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
If ORD got my passengers closer to their destination (which has better connections to the loop than MDW btw) then I'd land there.

I don't think it really matters since the passengers would probably have waited on board the plane or in the terminal at ORD until they could be flown back to MDW after the weather and delays cleared up.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
WN only goes to MDW since they can take over and dominate and run that airport into the ground since there is no WA as their is at DAL.

It is actually a really good thing that Southwest flies so many people out of MDW. Think of how much worse would be if WN wasn't flying many people Chicagoland residents out of a less congested airport. It is a very good thing. MDW has its own limitations due to short runways. I think it is a good thing. ORD doesn't need protection like DFW does. The fewer flights at ORD, the better!



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15657 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 6):
Somebody might chime in with a more detailed explanation, but Southwest's hedges actually are in the form of futures contracts or options, the profits of which offset the actual price paid at the pump.

Here is a good page with the basics on hedging (which was originally a gambling term).

To summarize, a "hedge" is a finance term describing the minimization of overall risk by an investment in multiple securities, bonds, or commodities.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineCalvin99 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2001, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15613 times:

Thats why I thought I saw a B737 flying low around campus. I thought there was some kind of emergency but I forget to follow up on the incident. If I knew the incident earlier, I would have drive to the airport and take some pics..!! Too bad..!!

User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15569 times:

Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 8):
Well, if you were an LCC and had the choice of paying the landing fee at ORD or LAF, which would you choose?

Where in ORD do you think they would have parked?


User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2298 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15569 times:

Great for Lafayette!

I like seeing larger guys into small airports. It awesome to be sitting at my small local airfield and see a gulfstream G-IV or a Falcon come in.

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15556 times:

Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 8):

Well, if you were an LCC and had the choice of paying the landing fee at ORD or LAF, which would you choose?

Speaking as someone who diverts flights on occasion, I can personally assure you that landing fees at airport-X over airport-Y aren't part the thought process, not mine anyway...

It's nearly always preferable to divert to an on-line station versus an off-line station. That said, sometimes, dependent upon the situation, dispatchers (in conjuction with the PIC) will use a closer-in off-line alternate in order to be able to hold longer. If the fuel to the on-line alternate is 5,000 lbs, and you change to an off-line alternate that only takes 2,000 lbs you've just added an extra 3,000 lbs of fuel that can be used for holding. We really only do this if we think (after coordinating with ATC) that the flight will be able to get in within the available holding time. Sometimes, not very often (in my own experience) additional delays crop up, and now one is committed to actually having to divert to that off-line alternate.

Most off-line alternates are not that big a deal anyways. We go to many of them on charter flights, and already have contact info, frequencies, fueling info, and info on available ground equipment in our database.


User currently offlineChiawei From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15539 times:

I used to live about 5 minute walk from Purdue Airport.

Back in 1999, Purdue was served by Northwest to Detroit (via 2 to 3 stops) and United to Chicago.

I still don't understand why west lafayette can't sustain regular service. There are tons of traffic. Personally i think it is much painless to fly from west lafayette than waiting for the hourly bus to indy.


User currently offlineBOS2LAF From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15515 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
If ORD got my passengers closer to their destination (which has better connections to the loop than MDW btw) then I'd land there. I don't think the landing fees are much more at ORD than they are at MDW. WN only goes to MDW since they can take over and dominate and run that airport into the ground since there is no WA as their is at DAL. If WN can go into IAD and DEN but why not ORD or DFW? Or for that matter JFK, SFO, IAH or MIA?

Hmm, and it only took 9 posts for someone to find a way to make this about the Wright Amendment.

I'm no fan of WN, the WA, or their dominance at MDW, but we're talking about a weather diversion here, get a grip.

If you read the article, it mentions that they were going to divert to IND, but the Capt wasnt comfortable with the fuel situation. They were already enroute to IND when they diverted to LAF.

They likely chose IND over ORD for a few reasons, the most obvious being, if the weather sucks at MDW, dont you think its going to suck at ORD too?? I don't know for a fact whether it actually was bad at ORD, but thats the first thing that jumps to mind... They're in such close proximity, it would stand to reason that the weather would be pretty similar at both airports. The next reason the likely chose IND over ORD is that they already have facilities in place at IND. Do you think AA or UA would've charged them reasonable fees for ground handling? Thats a big, "no freaking way." With WN pushing for the repeal of the WA, and moving into DEN and trying to move into IAD, they haven't exactly been making friends with the two guys that run the show at ORD.

So if youre able to put yourself in their shoes; which I suspect you can't given your rant about the WA in a thread about a wx diversion; if you had to make a choice to land at an airport where your bitter rivals run the show and would give you an a$$raping on ground handling, in addition to higher landing fees than LAF or IND, or land at an airport all of 200 miles away where you already have your own gates and ground staff in place, and the only additional cost would be fuel and landing fees, which would you choose?

Edit:

Quote:
It's nearly always preferable to divert to an on-line station versus an off-line station.

I was writing this post when that was posted. I was oversimplifying my argument in my first post. The bottom line is that with an airline like WN, where their whole business model is based on low costs, its safe to say that costs factored into the equation at some point.

Edited again:
Worth mentioning...

Quote:
One of the last times a plane of that size landed at Purdue was when Air Force One brought President Reagan to West Lafayette for an April 9, 1987, speech in Mackey Arena.

is obviously crap. During football season, the football team regularly charters Miami Air 738s, and I've been told by some that theres been an occasional 757 charter.

[Edited 2006-05-02 00:29:31]

[Edited 2006-05-02 00:34:59]

User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15515 times:

Nuts, and I had to take a final today. I wish I'd heard about it, I could've driven out to the airport (5min away) and checked it out. It isnt too often we get a 737 in here. And yes, I know Purdue owns one, but sadly, it doesnt fly.


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15341 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 6):
In addition to their duties with the supplemental/charter carrier Purdue Airlines, while at Purdue, Jan and her staff provided training for the Bunny Hostesses employed by Playboy magnate Hugh Hefner.

Nope, it was the original CO at LAX that trained the Flight Attendants for ole' Hef and his black DC-9 way back in 1969 or so.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6780 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15281 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
If ORD got my passengers closer to their destination (which has better connections to the loop than MDW btw) then I'd land there.

Do ya think that maybe, just maybe, bad weather at MDW might mean that ORD is having bad weather, too? Did you ever consider that ORD is congested enough on its own without having to help handle weather diversions from any other airport?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
WN only goes to MDW since they can take over and dominate and run that airport into the ground since there is no WA as their is at DAL.

Uhhhhhhh sure. Not that anyone in Chicago has a clue that two airlines have hubs at ORD both offering hundreds of flights each and every day. You must think that people in Chicago (or traveling to Chicago) eagerly pay more to fly Southwest for the privilege of using MDW, right?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
If WN can go into IAD and DEN but why not ORD or DFW? Or for that matter JFK, SFO, IAH or MIA?

Well, I'm sure that if Southwest were given a few dozen slots and gate space, they'd very happily go into DCA instead of IAD. It's not exactly clear to me where in the Denver metro area they could go aside from DEN; I guess they decided that DEN would be a better option than COS or FNL. Both DEN and IAD were above-average for on-time performance in February. SFO is a disaster when you have any weather at all, JFK is a mess, MIA is an expensive hellhole, and IAH doesn't make sense with their large HOU operation.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15177 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
It's not exactly clear to me where in the Denver metro area they could go aside from DEN; I guess they decided that DEN would be a better option than COS or FNL.

They would beg the City and County of Denver to re-open Stapleton and give them exclusive rights, just like DAL!! That is how WN operates, just ask the Port Authority of Seattle and the folks at King County (BFI) with the crap they tried to pull last year! They treat local airport authorities like Wal-Mart treats city councils and planning commission's when they don't get exclusive preferential "poor LCC" treatment!!!!  devil   gnasher   hissyfit   mad   vomit   yuck 



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineGreenguy01 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15103 times:

Does anyone know which flight number it was? I want to look at the diverson on FlightAware...

Found it.... Flt 1114 MCO-MDW on 30Apr

[Edited 2006-05-02 03:05:12]


Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineMitchell Gant From Montserrat, joined Aug 2000, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15049 times:

The comment about the airplane being the largest at LAF since AF1 is absolute garbage. Football charters regularly bring A320's, 727-200's and 737-800's into LAF. I recall a conversation I had with the previous LAF airport manager over ten years ago, when he told me that the largest aircraft to land at LAF was a DC-8-60 in the 1970's.

User currently offlineATAIndy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 610 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15049 times:

Nice little story involving the college I will attend someday (hopefully). This is one of the only times when I enjoy diversions, espically when I'm not on the plane.


Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-DFW-AUS, AUS-DFW-IND
25 WN57787 : WN DID Service SFO after a hard dicsition thay pulld the operations out and expanded in OAK
26 Wjcandee : Correctamundo. They buy a piece (actually pieces) of paper, known generically as a "derivative", on the futures market. I do not believe that one can
27 Wjcandee : WN has been flying to MDW for more than 20 years. When they started, Midway Airlines was the big kahuna there. It, too, was originally an LCC, but I
28 Post contains images Swadispatcher : Is the Ex-UAL 727-100 still up there too? I remember being a Junior when we got that AC from United. I remember a NW 757 bringing a football charter
29 Luv2fly : I remember reading about Purdue and was going to bring up the comparrassion, though you beat me to it.
30 Post contains images Calvin99 : Yup, the B727 and B732 are still there although they are only static now. Apologize for poor quality, only camera phone was available
31 FutureUALpilot : Yes it is, we started it a couple weeks back. I got to sit in the Capt. seat...it was an experience I certainly won't forget. Hey Calvin, when did yo
32 Scalebuilder : I really like your post!! Great info. I have always thought that the participation of airlines to buy fuel at market prices, regardless of hedging st
33 Calvin99 : I took it last year actually when we were given a tour of the airport for one of my class. So its kind a outdated
34 Post contains images Joness0154 : Well those planes are anything but static. They don't fly, but I was in the AT computer lab and I saw them taxiing the 727 around the tarmac a few day
35 FutureUALpilot : Do they still taxi them around? I know I've seen them tow them but I haven't seen them taxi them thus far. What a small worlds...the class I started
36 Post contains images Joness0154 : Denver Lopp was my professor for AT247 last semester. I think it was the A&P kids doing the taxi stuff on the 727, I remember them coming inside laugh
37 AirNaskar380 : I graduated from Purdue in 2004, If you're a technology major I think you have to take AT 263 which is a fluid power class. The last lab we all got t
38 FutureUALpilot : Good ol' Denver, he is my teacher...Im actually getting ready to go turn in his final. Good deal, I believe I will have to take that class...I hope w
39 SCCutler : Exclusive rights? Get a gift certificate. Call a cab. Destination: Clues-R-Us. Buy one. The harsh treatment WN metes out to airports across the fruit
40 RootsAir : soory for my ignorance, but what's the big thing about Purdue ? And where is it? thanks regards BM
41 Post contains images Mainliner : Some of my classmates were taxiing it a few days ago...if you have one of the top two grades our 727 ground class (AT384) then you get to take a turn
42 N911ME : It's part of the A&P training: to train future A&Ps on taxiing a transport category aircraft as it is one of the duties of an airline maintenance tec
43 Greenguy01 : Denver had us stand in the jetwash one day when I was taking his class back in 1999. That was fun. Only one engine was running and it was at idle.
44 ScottB : No, not like DAL in any way, shape, or form. DAL never closed, and Southwest has no "exclusive rights" at DAL. There are gates available at DAL shoul
45 Post contains images Rampart : That was rich! -Rampart
46 YZFOO7F : Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't think Purdue to have a secure area, or any TSA there. Wouldn't this have been a problem flying back into a sec
47 Coa747 : As for small airfields seeing heavy metal there was a good article in Airways about a tower controler in New York who worked a small airport with no B
48 Joness0154 : We do have a terminal, complete with metal detectors and X-ray machines. However, I do not know who would've been operating them at the time, as I ce
49 Loggat : Who took care of ground handling for this diversion? (Laf Av?)
50 Coa747 : Most of the time on these types of weather diversions don't they usually just hardstand the aircraft and no one gets off unless the delay is unusually
51 Goodmanr : I think a better explination is that derivatives contracts (especially on commodities) are never actually settled with the underlying asset, they are
52 Wjcandee : Sorta mean that nobody responded to you yet. I'm not really plugged in on this or anything, but... Perdue University has its main campus located in W
53 Antoniemey : It's actually happened before. Don't faint now... Indeed. It amazes me how many people don't realize that, despite the competetive spirit, at the air
54 Coa747 : Antoneimey I would agree with what you said, for most airlines but American doesn't have a history of being so accomodating. Just ask any ex Braniff p
55 Swadispatcher : Are Mike Nolan and Jim Dixie still teaching? I had a blast in Dixie's class building an airline from scratch.. Larry Gross and Mitch Grundman still g
56 Joness0154 : Don't know about everyone else, but Mike Nolan is definitely still there. I am in his AT300 (Aviation Infrastructure) class right now, and will be ta
57 Mainliner : I hate to nitpick, but Perdue = chicken...Purdue = university.
58 N911ME : Larry Gross and Mitch Grundman are still here too, both working out of Hangar 6. Swadispatcher, where did you get your Flight Dispatcher training from
59 OPNLguy : ADF has the FAA list of approved Part 65 dispatch schools linked to its site, but the link seems to be down right now. You might try to email the FAA
60 Swadispatcher : AT369 was one of THE best classes I took in the Av Mgmt program. I was looking forward to taking it for 2 years! I came very close to applying for AT
61 Post contains links Flyingbronco05 : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...4/history/20060430/1452Z/KMCO/KMDW That's the flight according to flight aware.
62 OPNLguy : Not under that name. The owner of AFDTC sold it to others and I believe they re-incarnated it as the Institute of Flight Dispatch (IFOD)....
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UA Jet Lands At NRT With Pillow Caught In Door posted Tue Jan 29 2002 09:29:23 by Zanadou
Southwest 737 At Helena, MT (HLN) July 9 posted Sun Jul 9 2006 20:41:39 by Globalflyer
Southwest 737 To Test Lengthened Runway At LNS posted Mon Mar 27 2006 22:46:47 by KarlB737
Threat Against Southwest Plane; Lands At Hobby posted Fri Aug 5 2005 20:29:20 by RJpieces
Southwest 737 Stuck In Mud At Sacramento posted Sun Jan 6 2002 20:20:42 by Murf
Southwest 305 Emergency Landing At MDW Today posted Fri Oct 20 2006 15:43:51 by FlyMD
Southwest 737-200 Flying LAS-PHX Today? posted Sat Oct 14 2006 19:34:35 by Iowaman
First A340-600 For QR Lands At DOH posted Tue Sep 12 2006 08:34:43 by QatarA340
AirNZ 737 Emergency Landing At AKL posted Mon Sep 11 2006 23:05:14 by Axio
United Testing New Jet Bridge At DIA posted Fri Aug 25 2006 03:11:34 by ORDZW