Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1920 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3036 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter): Add this to the addition of RegionsAir sometime this year in CLE, and CO will have enhanced service out of it's smallest hub.
I'd like to see mainline/Express expansion, but any additional flights is certainly no negative.
This is definitely good news. I like the idea of the Q series they are looking at as mentioned in the article. Thing is, if they are going to upgrade feed, they need to increase their mainline seats too so these turbos aren't flying empty.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3011 times:
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 1): Thing is, if they are going to upgrade feed, they need to increase their mainline seats too so these turbos aren't flying empty.
For at least the summer, CO is adding 3 757-300's out of CLE, leaving within a few minutes of each other around 0900: one to IAH, one to LAX, one to LAS.
Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1920 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2993 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2): For at least the summer, CO is adding 3 757-300's out of CLE, leaving within a few minutes of each other around 0900: one to IAH, one to LAX, one to LAS.
Great!
Does anyone know what time the banks are out of CLE?
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2967 times:
And good that CO is moving back to rational feeder service that isn't overly loaded on ERJs. The draw of "all jet" service hasn't translated into profits for the airlines.
For the shorter Midwest hops out of CLE, ERJs make very little sense money wise. I would assume if Q's come into the fleet, you'll see them to DAY, CMH, CVG, etc.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Joeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 611 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2887 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6): And good that CO is moving back to rational feeder service that isn't overly loaded on ERJs. The draw of "all jet" service hasn't translated into profits for the airlines.
For the shorter Midwest hops out of CLE, ERJs make very little sense money wise. I would assume if Q's come into the fleet, you'll see them to DAY, CMH, CVG, etc.
Ncflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 446 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2876 times:
hmmm, they're already flying props to DTW, PIT, and CVG, why not downgrade more markets like CMH, DAY, IND. Until they announce the markets, I'm not considering this an expansion. I know I'm a persistent bear on CLE airport outlook but the economy here just is el-stinko-- it is a different country from every where else. Houses in my neighborhood have been on the market for over 2 years.
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4732 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2758 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6): For the shorter Midwest hops out of CLE, ERJs make very little sense money wise.
Did you see the numbers CO reported this afternoon?
Consolidated RASM up more than mainline RASM and consolidated load factor just slightly lower than mainline. That says to me that CO is finally starting to make money from the Express flights again.
Quoting Joeman (Reply 7): Would CommutAir expansion mean Express reduction?
Not necessarily. The B1900s are not the most popular aircraft with the average passenger. Optimistically, the Saabs or Dash8s would replace the Beeches and perhaps expand into additional cities: back to AZO, MBS, etc. Pessimistically, if CO is going to take back 69 planes from Expressjet, Expressjet will have to shrink somewhere. And CLE is probably where they will look first.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2671 times:
While RASM is higher on the ERJs because they often serve limited markets that otherwise wouldn't get service, CASM is also higher on them because of the economics of the jet but also the support of that small station.
You must also remember that they've been using ERJs on very long routes which will help with the CASM on them, but that doesn't change the poor economics on very short routes like DAY-CLE or CRP-IAH.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4732 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2553 times:
Ikramerica, I just typed in a CLE-DAY round trip for 4-5 May and CO's fare was $1,148. I have a feeling the breakeven load factor on THAT plane is about 2 passengers!
Presumably, nobody pays that fare. Still, a more reasonable fare of say - $300 round trip, which might actually attract some passengers, is still more than $1 a mile for the 141nm trip and should allow a profit, no?
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2421 times:
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 12): Ikramerica, I just typed in a CLE-DAY round trip for 4-5 May and CO's fare was $1,148. I have a feeling the breakeven load factor on THAT plane is about 2 passengers!
Presumably, nobody pays that fare.
True, because most people going to DAY or CMH are connecting inbound, not originating in CLE-obviously.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2352 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13): True, because most people going to DAY or CMH are connecting inbound, not originating in CLE-obviously.
Especially CMH.
CO doesn't run last minute cheep shuttle flights between CMH or DAY and CLE as a business model, especially a midweek flight without saturday stay over.
They provide connections into DAY and CMH (and CVG) from CLE.
And the CASM of putting you on two short hop ERJ flights through CLE is higher than putting you on two Q flights instead. Especially with the ERJ135s they fly on these routes.
ERJs have their place though, and CO is starting to wise up to that. 1.5 to 2.5 hour flights, either as the only type on the route, or as an added frequency for a more popular route.
Of course, customers aren't too happy with the 2.5 hour ERJ flights vs. mainline (or the 3+ hour flights they do to the west, ick), but that's the bed CO made for now. But it does connect CLE to some further flung destinations that they otherwise wouldn't be serving non-stop. Same with IAH.
Hopefully they'll be able to work a scope clause for some EJets in the future.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4732 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2240 times:
Quoting N766UA (Reply 15): Where in the heck is the article?
I guess Falcon's link is now broken. Here's a new one:
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4732 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2069 times:
that says they will expand from 10 to 16 cities out of CLE. (It's also noteworthy that their ALB "hub" is gone.) I can easily think of 6 ERJ-served cities that could be converted to turboprop flying. How about IND, DAY, CMH, GRR, BUF, and YYZ? CO either has no competition or, in the case of YYZ, the competition is already flying Dash8s.
When this thread was first started, I could think of new cities as a possibility; but with XJT taking 69 planes, I now think it will be all XJT-replacement flying.
CLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2001 times:
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 18): How about IND, DAY, CMH, GRR, BUF, and YYZ? CO either has no competition or, in the case of YYZ, the competition is already flying Dash8s.
With the exception of BUF, I dont think CO would want to go to props on these routes, They all are very full most of the time.
N766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 7996 posts, RR: 27 Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1993 times:
Commutair Beeches, RegionsAir Saabs... and now a bigger prop type for Commutair... methinks CO is regretting going all jet at CLE! (And everywhere else for the matter.)
Joeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 611 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1874 times:
Quoting N766UA (Reply 20): Commutair Beeches, RegionsAir Saabs... and now a bigger prop type for Commutair... methinks CO is regretting going all jet at CLE! (And everywhere else for the matter.)
That was underscored a few years ago when CO actually made CLE ALL-jet and chopped smaller city feed flights like Toledo. Most of them and a couple extra's like Elmira/Corning eventually returned using the Beech 1900's.
ATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2038 posts, RR: 40 Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1858 times:
Quoting N766UA (Reply 20): Commutair Beeches, RegionsAir Saabs... and now a bigger prop type for Commutair... methinks CO is regretting going all jet at CLE! (And everywhere else for the matter.)
Yea same here. Its just not practical to run a 50 seater on CLE-PIT or CLE-MDT etc.
ATCT
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