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The Train VS The Plane Within The UK  
User currently offlineBa757gla From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 760 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3958 times:

Look at virgin trains only 2hrs 10 on the EUS-PIC route and 4.25hrs GLC -EUS they must be taking passegers off the Domestics in the UK

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

They are - BA have cut several domestic flights, and have also reduced capacity, as have BD and VLM.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineJonno From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

I rode Virgin First Class London - Manchester Picadilly return and can say it was the best First Class experience in my 40+ years of travel!

User currently offlineAIRCANL1011 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

How do the prices compare?. From what I remember the trains are quite expensive in the UK. I was once looking at taking the train from London to Cardiff and IIRC it was over 100 pound. Have the prices come down to compete with the LLC or am I completely wrong about the high price?


CYMRU AM BYTH / WALES FOREVER
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

If you book in advance you can get some great fares on the trains. Nice and comfy too.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 739 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

Pricing tends to work the same way for both - book well in advance and you can get some amazing deals. Where the trains win is for city centre to city centre travel, if you need to get from Central London to Central Manchester then rail is the obvious choice. However BA and bmi will never give in because they need to suck MAN's long haul pax into LHR, unfortunately!

User currently offlineLapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

London to Manchester, definitely worth taking the train now, depending on where you live. However to go to Glasgow or Edinburgh, flying is much better, especially if you want to travel at weekends. I looked at the train form London to Glasgow for the Easter weekend, at there were 4 changes due to engineering works!

User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3770 times:
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And here we are stuck with an almost mortally wounded Amtrak....

(granted, our distances are a little longer ....)

Here in Georgia, we have exactly three passenger trains in the state, not counting mass transit (ie: MARTA) :

1 Amtrak a day (the Southern Crescent)
1 tourist train @ Stone Mountain (circles the mountain)
1 excursion train in Blue Ridge GA (follows a river to the state line and back)

And people wonder why Hartsfield is so darned busy ...

- litz


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

Quoting Jonno (Reply 2):
I rode Virgin First Class London - Manchester Picadilly return and can say it was the best First Class experience in my 40+ years of travel!

Ditto - its not so daunting getting up at 5am anymore, when you get a nice comfy seat and a full cooked breakfast! And it tastes good!

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
If you book in advance you can get some great fares on the trains. Nice and comfy too.

You can - and according to ABTN today, Mr Branson intends to run trains every 20 minutes between Manchester and London in the not too distant future. When they do, the MAN-LON market will be further diluted - nobody could offer that flexibility and frequency of service by air. Profitably.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7624 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Reply 3):
How do the prices compare?

I checked with Virgin Trains and BA for an outward journey on 6 June from London to Manchester, returning on 8 June. The cheapest Virgin Train return fare was £57.10. The cheapest BA fare was £63.10 all inclusive. But I could not find:

Quoting Ba757gla (Thread starter):
virgin trains only 2hrs 10 on the EUS-PIC route

The fastest outward journey of the five displayed in resonse to the 11am departure time I specified was 2hrs 54 mins but all the return journeys were, for some reason, faster.


User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 794 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

Though we all like Air travel I think everybody will agree here that train travel is more convenient for relatively small journeys! I personally tried Reading to Edinburgh via Birmingham, and Reading to Edinburgh via London. Also travelled from London to Manchester. Both journeys were fast, pretty comfy and the all journey were quit entertaining. Due to the close proximity of Heathrow I could have easily taken the plane. But point to point it would have taken me about the same time. Furthermore no plane for example could have beaten my 25 quid fare from London Kings-Cross to Edinburgh return!!!  Smile

I reckon they will still both coexist but eventually 80% of the market for public market between both cities will be taken by train! But that will still require billions of investment to further upgrade existing infrastructure...


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

I've ridden on Virgin Trains many times from London to Edinburgh. If you book at the right time, you can get coach class for �15 each way, and I once got first class for �49.

Having said that, it just isn't nearly as much fun as flying  Smile


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3467 times:

The golden rule with the train... is book in advance.

London to Manchester return in first class for £40 is possible...

but turn up on the day...£60 std class and no chance of a seat at all.
Or go for the first class Manchester to London before 9.30am inc free car parking and Zone1/2 travel card for ooooh £550 !!!! by train...

at this rate I'd take a taxi !



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting Ba757gla (Thread starter):
Look at virgin trains only 2hrs 10 on the EUS-PIC route and 4.25hrs GLC -EUS they must be taking passegers off the Domestics in the UK

Can you please define the cities you're talking about? Most of us non-Brits have no idea what GLC, EUS, and PIC refer to. thanks.


User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

EUS : London Euston, PIC; London Picadilly, GLC: im unsure!

GNERs onboard magazine has an article on how the train beats th plan on the London to Newcastle/gateshead (well, half way across the milennium bridge) by around 25mins, and a first class walk on fare beat the BA walk up fare. It was a very balanced report tho, and they were complimentary towards BA! From what i recall.

I also think Teesside>London is slightly shortr by train.


User currently offlineFeroze From India, joined Dec 2004, 794 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 14):
EUS : London Euston, PIC; London Picadilly, GLC: im unsure!

EUS - London Euston
PIC - Manchester Piccadilly
GLC - Glasgow Central


User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3071 times:

I was pondering this question sitting on my MAN-LHR flight a couple of weeks ago. MAN and LHR take forever to get to, and aren't cheap either (the irony is you end up taking the train to and from the airports ...)

It was, however, a nice flight on a clear day, the BA A319 didn't fly very high and I got a good view of the English countryside.

Quoting Jonno (Reply 2):
I rode Virgin First Class London - Manchester Picadilly return and can say it was the best First Class experience in my 40+ years of travel!

Of course, I travelled from London on Virgin Trains. My rail pass was 2nd class, which has about an aircraft's economy seat pitch (which would be a bit of a shock to Americans used to "coach" on most Amtrak services being quite spacious!) It was a beautiful day and the journey was lovely ...

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Reply 3):
How do the prices compare?

One thing I've learnt about European train travel is how much they're like air travel, must have identical yield management systems.

For overseas visitors like myself, buying a BritRail pass is cheap. I got a 4 day in 2 month pass for just AUD$220 in 2nd class, which is only about 90 pounds. I only used the train for 3 of those days, but I did two long trips, a day trip to Bath, Bristol and Reading, and then a one-way trip from Euston to Manchester. I got my money's worth.

Besides, you have the luxury of turning up at the station in the morning and picking and choosing where you want to go, how, and where to stop, without buying any supplements.  bigthumbsup 

I got even further mileage and value out of my 15 day Eurail pass ...



4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3240 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

The trains are certainly a force in the UK despite being the target of much criticism, some of which is quite unfair. The biggest trouble I think is the wide range of fares available on most routes which confuses many travellers. To consider the London Paddington to Cardiff Central route quoted earlier, if you book an Apex fare it comes to just £25 - but it comes with restrictions such as a need to book 1 week in advance and specify dates and times of travel. The £100 fare is an open return fare which is fully refundable and allows travel on any train with return within a month. In between are a variety of other fares such as SuperAdvance and Advance, which need to be bought in advance and SuperSaver and Saver which can be bought on the day but have blackout times.

There is no flight between Cardiff and London, Air Wales' services between CWL and LCY ending in 2004. The twice daily service could simply not compete with 29 daily services by First Great Western.

Once the lines are upgraded in a timely manner the trains can certainly fight back. As an example, look at Eurostar, it has snatched a huge chunk of the London - Paris and Brussels markets.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineBAtriple7 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3017 times:

I'd always choose flying over rail for London to Manchester if it wasn't for the hassle of getting to an airport, and having to get there hours in advance. At least the train is city centre to city centre. Having said that, I commuted for years on Virgin's services and there were many times when I caught a 5pm train (say, Birmingham-London), had to stand for over 2 hours squashed into a corner next to the toilet, aircon not working, beer louts acting aggressive, and wished for 31" pitch economy class on a plane!

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