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Jetblue Vs US Airways  
User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

I thought maybe we could have a discussion about Jetblue vs US Airways. This is because yesterday an analyst from JP Morgan downgraded Jetblue on "revenue concerns" and upgraded US Airways "that their profit will be higher" Over the last few months, Jetblue's stock has lost a lot of value, while US Airways has gained a lot, and this particular analyst put a $100 target on the stock. So I ask, is US Airways really doing that much better then Jetblue? Sure US Airways is improving, but its results were so terrible before the merger, its almost hard to not improve. Jetblue did hit a bump in the road with the introduction of the EMB-190's and now they have shifted their business plan a bit to fly shorter routes, but I dont think these reasons justify the disparity between these stock prices. Jetblue also flies a simpler and younger fleet. I dont know the specifics, but I know US Airways is trying to become a low cost carrier, but I would imagine their costs are much higher then Jetblue's based on a more complex operation, a bigger variety of aircraft, and I would imagine their employees make more based on the fact the airline has been around longer. Any ideas on this?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7751 times:

When US was going for $0.37 per share, the only way they could go is up.


Paper makes an airplane fly
User currently offlineB777a340fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7688 times:

I don't know whether an analyst can compare US and B6 together, they're not "technically" in the same league. B6 is a LCC, while US is not. Furthermore, US benefits greatly from its merger with America West and its joining the Star Alliance. B6 is a loner and has a different business approach to things. Compared to its rivals, I don't think B6 is doing too poorly. It may have tripped with its expansion plans, but it's still too early to tell. When flying B6, I've actually heard passengers say "wow, that is different"....i don't think i've ever heard someone say that about US Airways. B6 has built over the years strong customer loyalty while US does well by acquiring passengers from its partners.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7643 times:

I don't think it's valid to compare US and B6... YET... But US is drastically reducing its costs as it completes the merger/buyout with HP. US did intend, in the beginning, to go all-airbus, but they are considering all airplane types when ordering newer aircraft to phase out their older equipment. They have posted an order for the A350 (they're the launch customer of that, actually) but if that bird cannot be made available they will likely consider the 787.

They did the same thing when considering the 737NG or A320, but that was the other way around. The 737s weren't going to be ready for when US needed them, so they went with the A320 aircraft. Maybe they'll consider going all Airbus for narrow-body, short-to medium range aircraft and boeing for the transatlantic service. I think UA is taking this approach. Again, that is if the A350 will not be ready for US...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7567 times:

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 2):
I don't know whether an analyst can compare US and B6 together, they're not "technically" in the same league. B6 is a LCC,

They are both airlines. You can compare them easily. An investor, when comparing within in the industry, is comparing load factors, profit margins and expenditures, not what kind of snacks they serve on-board.

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 2):
Furthermore, US benefits greatly from its merger with America West and its joining the Star Alliance.

Is joining the Star Alliance? They have been a member for a while, now.

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 2):
Compared to its rivals, I don't think B6 is doing too poorly. It may have tripped with its expansion plans, but it's still too early to tell.

US Airways is a rival of jetBlue. A fairly large one, actually, since US Airways has significant operations in LGA and Flordia.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 3):
I don't think it's valid to compare US and B6... YET... But US is drastically reducing its costs as it completes the merger/buyout with HP.

Once again, you can compare the two.

---

I think it will be interesting to see how union integrations go. There was a debate about which union would survive in some job groups (is that still going on?) and then there is the whole issue of seniority and other integration issues. America West's work groups seem to try and work with the company far more than US Airways' militantly pro-union employees.

AAndrew


User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7505 times:

The costs of B6's rapid expansion are beginning to catch up with them, while US's costs are much lower due slower expansion and fleet reductions. Jet Blue also has some of its aircraft coming up on C & D checks and keeps expanding their fleet rapidly. They just need to slow their growth down, and I think their management has realized this.

User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7378 times:

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 4):
Is joining the Star Alliance? They have been a member for a while, now.

"Its" is not the same as "It's". By "its joining the Star Alliance", I'm implying "it having joined the Star Alliance".

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 4):
They are both airlines. You can compare them easily. An investor, when comparing within in the industry, is comparing load factors, profit margins and expenditures, not what kind of snacks they serve on-board.

I think I know that much. Both airlines may be affected by the same industry factors such as fuel costs, etc... But both have different business plans. A greater load factor does not always equate a better investment.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 4):
US Airways is a rival of jetBlue. A fairly large one, actually, since US Airways has significant operations in LGA and Flordia.

First off, B6 doesn't have "significant operations" in LGA, but rather JFK. US Airways is a rival of jetBlue on routes such as JFK-PHX and JFK-LAS....not really a measure of comparison.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4056 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7345 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 6):
US Airways is a rival of jetBlue on routes such as JFK-PHX and JFK-LAS....not really a measure of comparison.

It could be argued that they are rivals in the entire NYC area...then again, most airlines are to some degree.

And don't forget their presence at BOS.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9595 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7325 times:

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 2):
I don't know whether an analyst can compare US and B6 together, they're not "technically" in the same league. B6 is a LCC, while US is not.

I think technically the new US Airways is a LCC. Their slogan is only "coming together to form the world's largest low cost carrier". But I do agree that they have different operating economics. The still do however go after many of the same passengers. I am sure many people face the choice of jetBlue or US Airways. And as much as some people want to think that the choice is a no brainer, it isn't. JetBlue offers some great economy perks, but US Airways also has a very good frequent flyer program with elite levels, lounges, priority everything, first class among other things. US Airways does have a different business and marketing plan, but it still technically considers itself an LCC even though I personally think of it more as a hybrid like America West was and how Alaska is today.

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 2):
When flying B6, I've actually heard passengers say "wow, that is different"....i don't think i've ever heard someone say that about US Airways. B6 has built over the years strong customer loyalty while US does well by acquiring passengers from its partners.

I am pretty confident that there are more people that are loyal to US Airways than jetBlue. US Airways has an impressive route structure on the east coast whereas jetBlue has a limited number of destinations. US Airways has features that I described. It might be very similar to other airlines, but that doesn't mean that people aren't loyal to them.

I'm not trying to insult jetBlue as it is a great airline, but you have to take it into context. jetBlue offers some great things like nice new planes and incredible IFE, but there are things that some people want that are not offered by jetBlue. US Airways is not as horrible as people want to act like it is.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7246 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
US Airways is not as horrible as people want to act like it is.

And I used to be one of those people who did as such, especially when they pulled down the PIT hub. I am over that now, and US has really changed into a product that I'd like to fly in the future. On some of their routes, the fares are very reasonable, while on routes without competition like BOS and JFK, fares are thru the roof. However, and especially in the case of US vs B6, those fares should be much lower come July after B6 launches service to JFK and BOS... Oohhhh this should be a good fare war...  box 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 9):
jetBlue offers some great things like nice new planes and incredible IFE, but there are things that some people want that are not offered by jetBlue.

I wasn't trying to shoot down US Airways as it has drastically improved recently. However, just because US Airways has the benefit of the Star Alliance and the fact that it's a bigger company, it's hard to compare. It clearly has an advantage. I wouldn't argue if we were to compare, UAL/DL/AA/CO/NW. Those are roughly the same.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 10):
I wasn't trying to shoot down US Airways as it has drastically improved recently.



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 10):
I wouldn't argue if we were to compare, UAL/DL/AA/CO/NW. Those are roughly the same.

Of course, they're all legacies that have a hub in either a very large market like NY, CHI, NRT, or LAX, or a very rapidly growing market, ATL. They also have multiple aircraft consisting of both Airbus and Boeing, but DL is technically considered all-boeing; they have Maddog aircraft, and the rest of the fleet are 737, 757, 767, and 777 aircraft... I think AA is mostly all-Boeing as well... UA has A319/320s, I am not too sure of NW or CO though...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7161 times:

I really don't think that you can compare the 2. Each airline has their perks and each has their downfalls. JetBlue has the young fleet, LiveTV, XM Radio, all leather seats, more leg room.

USAirways has Envoy, lounge access, frequent flyer program (redeemable on Star Alliance carriers) European access, more broad route structure.

The only real likeness between the 2 is that they airlines who operate mainly on the east coast (until USAirway's merger with America West)



JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9595 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7148 times:

Quoting WMUPilot (Reply 12):
The only real likeness between the 2 is that they airlines who operate mainly on the east coast (until USAirway's merger with America West)

Another huge likeness between the two airlines is that they go after many of the same passengers. B6 and US both carry many people from the Northeast to Florida. The Upstate New York to Florida market used to be dominated by US until B6. US isn't huge on transcons especially out of New York, but they still compete to some degree.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

Since Jet Blue has no service from my local airport and very limited service from the nearest airport (100 miles); I seldom travel to NY; US Airways is my pick. Also, I prefer their destinations for award travel: Mexico.

User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 14):
Since Jet Blue has no service from my local airport and very limited service from the nearest airport (100 miles); I seldom travel to NY; US Airways is my pick. Also, I prefer their destinations for award travel: Mexico.

To each their own. US will continue to keep their loyal fliers. The ones who value the more rewards and different cabin service more than price. But for those families who are looking for the cheapest ticket and don't care, they have a choice now. That's called competition and there is nothing wrong with it. The cost conscious flyer will benefit.

I have nothing but respect for those that work for USAirways and i'm sure they feel the same for us. They do a great job, offer a great product, have great employees, and I wish them well.



JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineSpazolaJBLULGB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6621 times:

Since I've worked for both B6 my present and AWA its a no brainer,B6 is the better of the two as far how they treat thier employees!!! Give us some time when we're as big as US we'll be "THE LCC LEADER". WN is ok ,but David and Dave are 'TRULY GREAT LEADERS". Hey, no one can beat our TV's!!! We just need a bigger presence in PHX!!! Once the rest of the ''Zonies" have the jetBlue experience they''ll soon say"US WHO"!!! Being a commuting mechanic,I'm quite proud of our BUSSES almost as I was working on the F-16s in the Air Force!!! Also, the 190's are coming around quite nicely!!! They make the 900 RJ look and feel like a toy!!!!

User currently offlineGoodmanr From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 2):
I don't know whether an analyst can compare US and B6 together



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 3):
I don't think it's valid to compare US and B6

What do you mean? They're both airlines, Jet Blue is losing money and their load factor is falling, on-time performance has taken a big hit...US is doing very well, no merger problems, loads are up...Analysts seem to think right now US is a good investment and B6 is a bad one...



USAirways - Chairmans Gold
User currently offlineJetBlueguy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6116 times:

With all this talk about routes, when will B6 be announcing new ones?


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

Quoting Goodmanr (Reply 17):
What do you mean? They're both airlines, Jet Blue is losing money and their load factor is falling, on-time performance has taken a big hit...US is doing very well, no merger problems, loads are up...Analysts seem to think right now US is a good investment and B6 is a bad one...

I think a little research is in order. Here is a summary of our April Traffic results:

Traffic increases 24.8% over APR 05
Capacity increased 27.2&
Load Factor: 85.6%
Completion factor 99.9%
On-time Preformance: 81.3%

I wouldn't say that our load factor nor our ontime preformance have "taken a hit" That was a one time deal with the 190 introduction and the february snow storm.



JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5809 times:

Quoting WMUPilot (Reply 19):
I wouldn't say that our load factor nor our ontime preformance have "taken a hit" That was a one time deal with the 190 introduction and the february snow storm.

And the E190 is NOT another CRJ, particularly the CR2... Not comfy at all, from what I hear, and not very economical. When FlyI became a main carrier, they might have had a chance if they would have made an effort to replace their cr2 with E90 or E70 planes... Just my  twocents 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5774 times:

Customers and crew alike have fallen in love with the 190s. Now that a vast majority of the problems have been solved the aircraft is a dream to work on and so very comfortable to ride in. We've been getting nothing but rave reviews from our customers so I think that in the long run this aircraft will become an invaluable addition to our fleet.


JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 9):
Oohhhh this should be a good fare war

Fare wars are NEVER good for anyone but the customer. Nothing quite like watching yields plummet and airlines operating in the red! That is the best description of the Summer of 1992 for travelers and airlines alike. One love it, the other hated it. Really, though, I would just call this a fight, not a war. Now if B6 opened a focus city in CLT, now that WOULD be a war, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

Quoting SpazolaJBLULGB (Reply 16):
Since I've worked for both B6 my present and AWA its a no brainer,B6 is the better of the two as far how they treat thier employees!!! Give us some time when we're as big as US we'll be "THE LCC LEADER". WN is ok ,but David and Dave are 'TRULY GREAT LEADERS". Hey, no one can beat our TV's!!! We just need a bigger presence in PHX!!! Once the rest of the ''Zonies" have the jetBlue experience they''ll soon say"US WHO"!!! Being a commuting mechanic,I'm quite proud of our BUSSES almost as I was working on the F-16s in the Air Force!!! Also, the 190's are coming around quite nicely!!! They make the 900 RJ look and feel like a toy!!!!

I love your passion for B6, but PLEASE! It doesn't matter what a "great leader" David/Dave is if the expansion plans don't go right. US Airways knows the Northeast better than anyone else, they've been flying there longer than Neeleman's been alive. As for PHX, B6 has yet to tangle with WN on a regular basis-we'll see how that goes. America West has been fighting with WN almost since the beginning, if they can't handle it, no one can.

Quoting WMUPilot (Reply 12):
I really don't think that you can compare the 2. Each airline has their perks and each has their downfalls. JetBlue has the young fleet, LiveTV, XM Radio, all leather seats, more leg room.

Only airTran has XM radio. Get your facts straight before posting!



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5518 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 22):
US Airways knows the Northeast better than anyone else, they've been flying there longer than Neeleman's been alive.

I believe they started out as All-American Aviation back in the '40s or late '30s, in Pittsburgh or at least in Western PA I think. In the '50s they became Allegheny Airlines, named for the mountains in Western/Central PA, so I think it would be valid to say they've been in the Northeast for generations; not just longer than Neeleman's existance or our existance...

(Then the Airline moved its hq to Washington D.C. until it merged with HP)



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 23):
I believe they started out as All-American Aviation back in the '40s or late '30s, in Pittsburgh or at least in Western PA I think. In the '50s they became Allegheny Airlines, named for the mountains in Western/Central PA, so I think it would be valid to say they've been in the Northeast for generations; not just longer than Neeleman's existance or our existance...

(Then the Airline moved its hq to Washington D.C. until it merged with HP)

All American/Allegheny never had their actual headquarters here in western PA, even though that was where most of the airmail contracts were based from. Headquarters was Wilmington, DE until the 1960s, when it moved just adjacent to DCA.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
25 Post contains links WMUPilot : Look who's not smart. Get YOUR facts straight before posting!!! http://www.jetblue.com/havefun/entertainment.asp
26 HPRamper : In his defense, it is a new program, and still only on select aircraft.
27 USPIT10L : Thanks. I'm surprised there wasn't a new thread about it somewhere, since there are SO many jetBlue lovers out there on a.net!
28 WMUPilot : All of the 190s have XM installed right out of the factory and the A320s are getting equipped when they go in for maintenance. It was announced a whil
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