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JetBlue Deferrs A320s And Reduces Fleet  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12342 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 10238 times:
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Turnaround plan will see 12 deliveries deferred and up to five twinjets removed from fleet after first quarter loss

JetBlue Airways is deferring 12 Airbus A320s by up to four years and will sell up to five of its existing A320s as it slashes capacity growth in a bid to stem losses

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+to+offset+mounting+fuel+cost.html

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 10197 times:

Well hopefully this will help put them back in the black.
They kind of were reminding me of America West in the Eighties...
too much growth too fast.
Remember AWA was kind of novel (like jetBlue is in its own way) when
they appeared in the skies: free movies, free alcohol.
Hopefully with this move, jetBlue won't follow AWA's route and end up
in BK protection.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineAkjetBlue From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 790 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 9790 times:

The title for this tread is actually quite misleading. JetBlue is actually still growing.

Let’s actually put some facts on the table, shall we?

JetBlue will be deferring some aircraft; however we are not reducing our fleet. We have a total of 12 aircraft being deferred over a period of three years. So simple math would tell us that 12 aircraft over three years would be 4 aircraft deferred each year. Four aircraft in 2007, 4 in 2008 and another 4 in 2009. We are normally scheduled to receive about +10-15 Airbus Aircraft each year. These aircraft are not being deferred indefinitely but rather until 2011-2012. On top of this we are continuing to receive the remaining 10 aircraft on order this year from Airbus. This is in addition to the aircraft that we are continuing to receive from Embraer. We will continue to receive E190s and Airbus over the next few years, just a fewer number of Airbus Aircraft.

Now, we are looking for buyers of two Airbus aircraft possibly up to 5. Now since we are still receiving the rest of our order from Airbus and Embraer this year (lets say 10 airbus aircraft) and we are removing 2-5 aircraft to sell, that would leave us with an 8 to 5 new aircraft to add to the fleet plus however many E190s we add.

So in closing we are actually still growing the fleet albeit just not as fast, we are not shrinking or reducing the fleet but rather growing a a much slower and steadier pace.

I’m not much for cool aid, but JetBlue is here to stay for sometime folks, it’s not the end as some would seem to think or like to post. All JetBlue is doing is getting smarter and adjusting to match the industry we’re in. More power to them.



Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
User currently onlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4728 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 9653 times:

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 2):
Now, we are looking for buyers of two Airbus aircraft possibly up to 5. Now since we are still receiving the rest of our order from Airbus and Embraer this year (lets say 10 airbus aircraft) and we are removing 2-5 aircraft to sell, that would leave us with an 8 to 5 new aircraft to add to the fleet plus however many E190s we add.

But why doesn't B6 keep its A320s and deferr more new aircraft ? I think Airbus might like this as the would get more early delivery slots for other customers.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineSKYYBLUE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 9556 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 3):
But why doesn't B6 keep its A320s and deferr more new aircraft ? I think Airbus might like this as the would get more early delivery slots for other customers.

We will sell the older birds first to avoid the expense of the heavy checks. Remember, even our oldest A320's are technically still pretty "new".


User currently offlineArchie From Mexico, joined Aug 2000, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 9413 times:

Hey,

Hi AkjetBlue, thanks for clearing things up.

Most airlines when they get into trouble (money wise) start to cut capacity, this with the intention of cutting expenses. This might seem a logical step, but when you cut capacity you also cut income, so you still have the same debt but less income to pay for it. That`s how I see it.

Instead of cutting capacity, they should promote more, get more customers and interest in them...that way you have more income, pay debts and grow!!! not shrink.

I like Jetblue because they use a different philosophy than the rest of the airlines, I would hate to see it make the same mistake as other have made and that are long gone.

I wish them all the best!

Just my 2 cents.

Archie


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 9377 times:

Glad they are taking these steps now. I'm sure they will be here for a long time to come....


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 9153 times:

They selling those A320's to Virgin America or UA?

Glad they are doing what is necessary to stay competitive.

 twocents 



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12342 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 9051 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 2):
The title for this tread is actually quite misleading. JetBlue is actually still growing.

Then you better tell Flight International that


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 8961 times:

Raise the fares to a level less ridiculous and start charging $5.00 a head for the acclaimed LIVE TV service. Makes sense, right?  Wink

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 8214 times:

Wait, that sounds like my hometown airline at EWR? Just finished EWR-HNL-EWR and they continue to perform  Wink


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13552 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 7913 times:
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Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 2):
JetBlue is actually still growing.

Still pretty quick. 18 E190's a year! (B6 already announced no change in E190 delivery rate.)

If a net of 25 aircraft a year (assuming 5 a year sold off) is a fleet reduction... bring it on!  box 

Please take the time to read B6's quarterly results. At the middle of the page you'll see the A320 delivery schedule:
http://investor.jetblue.com/ireye/ir...cript=410&layout=-6&item_id=846920

Let's also not forget that B6 has expanded their options for A320's! Its possible if the market turns that only half of the deferals will occur.  spin 

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 2):
I’m not much for cool aid, but JetBlue is here to stay for sometime folks, it’s not the end as some would seem to think or like to post. All JetBlue is doing is getting smarter and adjusting to match the industry we’re in. More power to them.

 checkmark 
They're working on yeild management. They hired that guy from US.
They're working on hubbing more as a way to improve yeild.
They're moving A320's from transcons to other routes.
They're working on getting the on time performance back up to snuff. (More gates, training to quicken aircraft turn times, learning out the E190's and thus having fewer delays with that airframe, etc.)
And all of the *rumors* are that more small cities will be added. After looking at the yeild currently garnered by DL and US in their new markets... I don't see how they couldn't make a profit in the Carolinas.  Wink


What I noticed on my last B6 flight is how helpfull and cheerfull the Jetblue staff could be. The pilot even got on the PA and appologized for not greeting everyone as he was stuck in the cockpit working trying to get us out on time!  bigthumbsup  And yet, the press is warning how surly airline staff is getting...  scratchchin  Makes me wonder... On a pair of full flights, B6 staff did well!  bigthumbsup 

Quote:
"It seems the patience of the flight crews has been depleted."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2006-05-03-airloads-usat_x.htm
(Sorry for the quick link. But I've seen other articles on industry analysts complaining that the airline staff is getting surly again after an improvement last year.)

Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 4):
We will sell the older birds first to avoid the expense of the heavy checks. Remember, even our oldest A320's are technically still pretty "new".

 checkmark 

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):

Then you better tell Flight International that

Do we need another discussion on how bad the press can be?  Wink

B6 will be around for a bit. Everyone is commenting on how much their fares *seem* to have gone up. And yet their Load factor went down year on year what, 2%? That implies improved yeild.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineSKYYBLUE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 7417 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 11):
Makes me wonder... On a pair of full flights, B6 staff did well!

I would say 95% do our very best to make some kind of difference. Of course there will always be bad apples, even at JetBlue. I'm glad you enjoyed your trip!


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 7183 times:

It is amazing the amount of excuses the Jet Blue fans can come up with when the facts are printed in the press!

User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6613 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
It is amazing the amount of excuses the Jet Blue fans can come up with when the facts are printed in the press!

No excuses! 12 deferred deliveries and selling up to 5, with a minimum of 2, is not a big deal and is actually helpful in raising and preserving cash.

It's false that JetBlue is reducing its fleet. Instead, it will not grow as much, but by a very little percentage that will not have too much of a negative impact on utilization rates.

Nevertheless, I'm looking at this as a good thing as oil at $70/bbl isn't helping anyone...

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6388 times:

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 2):
The title for this tread is actually quite misleading

....and this is actually old news. This was released two weeks ago.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13552 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6319 times:
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Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
It is amazing the amount of excuses the Jet Blue fans can come up with when the facts are printed in the press!

Do expand... a statement like that could be taken as argumentative.

But lets face it, I don't understand the hostility I see in these forums toward B6. I don't offer excuses... despite the fact I could be labeled a Jetblue fan, I have again and again pointed out in these forums where they need to improve.  wideeyed  Does that mean I dislike them? No. Heck, even Mr. Neeleman will point out where he or his senior staff have screwed up. I'm even pointed out how with a positive operating margin I still expect B6 to lose money for the year! So people, instead of bashing, do take the high road and present facts.  spin 

But if you look into why B6 is losing money and what they're doing to fix it... it seems logical to me that they will not only survive but will thrive. I've given my reasons why their fate will improve yet again.

I always try to listen in on the Raymond James presentations that the airlines do. Gasp, I even listen to the "network carriers" (who are actually better about putting their slides online.) But hey, if you have a link for the Raymond James slides for any of the airlines presenting, please send that link to me!

But the truth is, we only like Jetblue because we get the whole can of coke.  shhh  Don't tell anyone that's B6's secret to high customer satisfaction.  Wink


Quoting SKYYBLUE (Reply 12):

I would say 95% do our very best to make some kind of difference. Of course there will always be bad apples, even at JetBlue. I'm glad you enjoyed your trip!

Well done. World class companies usually only hire 90% right.  Wink

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
Do expand... a statement like that could be taken as argumentative

Take it easy... It was a prode at the way the press likes to spin things..


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13552 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5877 times:
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Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 17):
Take it easy... It was a prode at the way the press likes to spin things..

Ahhh... I'm afraid the subtlety of thy humor escaped me.  Wink
But I always take it easy.  Smile
Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12342 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4631 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 11):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):

Then you better tell Flight International that

Do we need another discussion on how bad the press can be?

Don't need to when Flight Imternational is a reliable soruce


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4408 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
It is amazing the amount of excuses the Jet Blue fans can come up with when the facts are printed in the press!

So, you are saying the press always tells the whole and complete truth, instead of spinning the facts to get a sexy headline? Which of the "excuses" above is not factual?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

This was what I posted on this topic about 10 or 12 days back ---

>>I won't sit here and predict JetBlue's demise....or even deny that it is possible for them to eke out a profit over the rest of this year.

But there is something troubling out there....and the earlier poster who talked about their +6.7 percent increase in CASM ex-fuel touched on it.

Their costs are going up. Everyone knew it would happen. I think people wanted to believe it would not be by this much.

Let's wipe out fuel and look at the CASM of JetBlue and Southwest. From Q1 2005 to Q1 2006 JetBlue's CASM went from 5.06 to 5.40 cents.

Southwest's, on the other hand, went from 6.44 cents to 6.43 cents.

Sounds like JetBlue's advantage may have shrunk somewhat, but they still have the upper hand if Southwest was paying at-the-pump prices for fuel.

It may sound that way, but that's not the real deal.

JetBlue runs a lot of transcons and NE-FL stuff that allows the plane to stay in the air a reasonably long time. Their average stage length is 1246 miles.

Southwest still runs a lot of Corpus Christi to Houstons and Phoenix to Las Vegas. Average stage length is less than half of JetBlue's --- 617 miles.

It is an accepted fact that as your average stage length increases, your CASM will decrease. And vice versa.

The fact that WN has achieved a CASM only a penny higher than JetBlue's.....with an average stage length less than half...ought to scare the heck out of JetBlue's management.

Especially if they think one of the places they can waltz in to is Islip.

If JetBlue decides to take Southwest on....and that's a big if...I don't think they are that stupid.....we are talking scorched Earth.

JetBlue is talking about getting in to the short haul biz to raise their yields. That's great. Short hauls will do that. Southwest had a yield of 12.68 cents versus JetBlue's 8.37 cents.

The real problem is getting in to the short haul business in a big way is going to knock JetBlue's CASM up more than a penny or so.

I would wager that, if JetBlue were to increase their short haul market penetration using E-190s by enough to reduce their average stage length to Southwest levels---617 miles---that you would see JetBlue's CASM ex fuel up above 7.5 cents....maybe as high as 8 cents.

Which puts them as a decided disadvantage to Southwest in anything head-to-head.

It's strange to see an airline with this problem with such a junior workforce. Southwest's folks are all unionized....they know what labor is going to cost them with contracts and all.....and none of their employees have been forced to cough up part of their paycheck as a concession.

JetBlue's folks, frankly, don't make enough to squeeze any concessions out of them. The folks who got stock a while back didn't get anything of value. The company is becoming more mature, NYC is not a low cost of living place to be domiciled.....JetBlue's pay (esp to pilots) is notoriously bad. Sooner or later, the rumblings of collective bargaining are going to begin and JetBlue may lose what labor cost advantage it has.

Because that's about the only cost advantage they do have left.

They threw away the single-fleet-type advantage. Now you've got to have pilots for multiple aircraft, so there is time lost to train pilots transitioning from on AC to the other....you have to stock parts (from foreign vendors) for two different aircraft. The fleet is aging and they're now looking at C-checks. The grand idea to sell oldere aircraft may be a plan to sell the aircraft and avoid the C-check....but you are not going to get as much for a young but high-time aircraft that has to have a C-check before the buyer can do much with it.

I've rambled a bit, and I'm sorry---it certainly isn't hopeless for JetBlue. But their management has made a bit of a mess. Blaming it all on fuel when you previously bragged that you could make money at $70/bbl just makes the whole company look foolish.<<

If I wanted to make a joke about all of this I would say that the problems threatening B6 are fatal but not serious. But the truth is the problems are not fatal, but they could become that way. And many of them are quite serious.

JetBlue's costs are going up. There is no way to spin that.

They are going to take E190s and forego some Airbuses. That's going to make a larger portion of their fleet E190s (than what was programmed...it may still be a majority Airbus fleet.)

The company admitted before they'd even received a single Embraer that they were going to drive the CASM up by a penny. With the teething problems and the lower-than-expected utilization it may be more than that.

Under any circumstance, having more Embraers and fewer Airbuses is going to move the CASM upwards.

Focusing your growth more towards sort hauls is going to enable you to get a better yield, but it is also going to drive the CASM up, and the difference will not be insignificant. I am not certain that B6 will get enough of a yield improvement to offset the CASM increase.

B6 is going to sell some of the older Airbuses so they don't have to do the C & D checks which can be costly. Hold on just a second.....does anyone think that a buyer out there is not going to factor in the cost of doing the maintenance on an airplane before plopping down several millions of dollars for an aircraft? In fact, B6 may find out that the way they were depreciating these aircraft does not reflect the price they are going to be able to command for them on the open market.

In short - JetBlue might find out that they cannot get anywhere near the price they want for their used airplanes. If that's the case, they are going to either have to keep them or take a pretty healthy chunk out of the sale price.

I hear unions are snoopoin around B6. That will continue. It may even escalate. Unions are not always antagonistic with corporate management. They are going to insist on a reasonable deal for the employees/union members. This is going to exert upward pressure on labor costs. And if the B6 employees want one bad enough, there is no way Neeleman or anyone else can serve enough blue potatio chips and kool-aid to prevent it.

By all accounts Mr Neeleman is a very smart guy. Of that I have no doubt. The history of business is littered with people who were real smart, but got to reading their press clippings and decided they were smarter than they actually were.

I think JetBlue made some serious tactical errors that can no longer be reversed. They may be survivable, but it doesn't mean they weren't mistakes.

It sounds dumb but the first rule of building a successful airline is to start making a profit before you run out of money. Neeleman & JetBlue did that. No problem.

The problem developed when they decided they were smarter than other folks who had built successful airlines.

Rather than start with short hauls and strong yields, JetBlue immediately went long haul with low low low ASM costs but accompanying rock bottom yields.

Rather than stick with the single fleet type - and I do not think its importance can be overemphasized - he bought a bunch of Brazilian airplanes that look good, have good economics on paper, but may not be built to last a jillion cycles like a Boeing 737.

Departing the single fleet type has raised costs, and now he has to raise fares, and customers may pay it but nobody really likes to pay more for anything. There will be an impact on demand.

Having maintained low labor costs by...not paying employees very much...JetBlue had pretty much guaranteed themselves a future of dealing with collective bargaining. In transportation it's almost a given, the biggest question is how long before the employees organize.

It also means that there is no way to offset any of the increased costs thru wage concessions. With labor there is an element of "you get what you pay for" to a certain extent. If your folks are already among the poorest compensated in the industry, you really can't do much in the way of going back to them for give-backs.

When the dust clears, in another couple of years or so, you will be looking at a unionized Jet Blue whose ex-fuel CASM is equal to or higher than Southwest's despite still having a longer average stage length. The Embraers and the short haul routes are going to do that.

Can that company survive? Sure, if they give the customer what they want. What customers, especially business passengers, really want is frequency, flexibility, and reliability. It will take more than blue tater chips to overcome a sorry reputation for on-time service.

JetBlue is far from being toast. They do have their work cut out for them.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13552 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4183 times:
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Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 21):
JetBlue is far from being toast. They do have their work cut out for them.

Excellent post, quite interesting. Welcome to my RU list.

Now pardon me for disagreeing on one point:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 21):
With labor there is an element of "you get what you pay for" to a certain extent.

I can't but notice B6 flight crews are very good. From what I've seen their flight crew pay is ok. Yes, new pilots are paid poorly... But whom else is hiring? Ok, yes, WN, CO, FL, F9, and others are, but only a fraction of the available pilot pool! Of those, only WN and CO offer significantly better pay than B6 for a captain (yes, B6 is lower starting...). By the time new B6 pilots are able to jump ship to another airline, they're already captains on the A320 and most likely aren't willing to take the pay cut to jump to another airline. Just my  twocents 

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 21):
Departing the single fleet type has raised costs, and now he has to raise fares, and customers may pay it but nobody really likes to pay more for anything. There will be an impact on demand.

Excellent point. While I believe the east cost RASM has much potential, you do make a good point in that poeple don't like to pay more. Like it or not the internet has made airline ticket pricing very transparent. The cat is out of the bag... adapt.

Again, most excellent post TxAgKuwait. I might spin the results to a more "optimistic conclusion" for B6, but I always appreciate getting good facts and a well thought out perspective.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

>>Now pardon me for disagreeing on one point:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 21):
With labor there is an element of "you get what you pay for" to a certain extent.

I can't but notice B6 flight crews are very good. From what I've seen their flight crew pay is ok. Yes, new pilots are paid poorly... But whom else is hiring? Ok, yes, WN, CO, FL, F9, and others are, but only a fraction of the available pilot pool! Of those, only WN and CO offer significantly better pay than B6 for a captain (yes, B6 is lower starting.<<

A point well made and I basically concur.

Let me expand on something.

JetBlue has some exceptional people. No question. The airlines have been in the doldrums, new entrants with solid business plans attract good people - movers and shakers who want to get in on the ground floor.

To keep good people, you have to be willing to pay the what they are worth. Companies who try to short change employees often end up short changing themselves.

As the economy improves (and it is improving) and the airlines rebound, sooner or later airlines start to compete for a shrinking pool of available airline personnel (esp. flight crew members w/ requisite # of hrs). There will not perpetually be the glut of pilots and co pilots that we saw when everybody and his brother except WN was laying off and furloughing folks.

When that happens, it turns in to a situation of supply & demand. Airlines wanting to attract the best will have to pay a bit more, and airlines wanting to retain the good ones they have will have to pay a bit more.

There are limits, of course. An airline paying $1,000 an hour for a pilot is liable to have their choice of lots of pilots...they can pick the best of the lot. But it won't matter for long, as they won't remain in business. And even a B6 pilot making 66 bucks an hour for driving the Embraer around has the requisite skills necessary to keep the thing in the air or he would not be so licensed.

It gets back to companies where employees feel like their contribution to the company is recognized by management - through good wages - and employees who have a stake in the fortunes of their company - through profit sharing - are usually employees who go above and beyond to represent their company well.

I am not saying JetBlue doesn't have good people, but I am saying that to retain the ones you want to keep you have to treat them well, and that does include (but is not limited to) the paycheck.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25712 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4097 times:
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Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 21):
If JetBlue decides to take Southwest on....and that's a big if...I don't think they are that stupid.....we are talking scorched Earth.

But - it is okay for Southwest to take on someone - Frontier at DEN, for example - and scorch the earth there?

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 CX747 : Its just business people!!! Does anyone one of us happen to work in the industry or for Jetblue, Southwest or Frontier?
26 AkjetBlue : Yup.
27 Mariner : Work? No. Invest in the business model? Yes. mariner
28 FA4B6 : Im really sick of hearing how badly the people at JetBlue get paid. That, at least from an Inflight perspective, is untrue. We make really good money,
29 TxAgKuwait : FA4B6: I am glad that you are having a good time at your job. Here is the tale of someone who didn't: >>JetBlue Flight Attendant Fired For Fatigue Lon
30 Post contains images EA CO AS :
31 Mariner : So the $50 one way DEN-SLC fares, on which I am sure everyone is making sooooooooo much money, plus all the added capacity, this is not scorched eart
32 Apodino : Wow. If this is true, this is a very serious offense by JetBlue. Not in firing the crew member, but in allowing her to work past her duty time. Unfor
33 John : You're right, this is a serious offense and you'd think since FLL is a F/A domicile for B6, they could have called in a reserve crew to cover the unde
34 FA4B6 : If you knew Carolyn and the real, true, non "on the jumpseat" version of that story, you'd have a much different picture. She has exaggerated that sto
35 TxAgKuwait : >>If you knew Carolyn and the real, true, non "on the jumpseat" version of that story, you'd have a much different picture. She has exaggerated that s
36 Bigdrewfl : That was a RUMOR!!! No truth to it. Story says she call Fatigued and Crew services said no, so she ended up working the trip. So during the trip she
37 A330300 : I have personally experienced this while at B6 and concur. Besides the facts of what happened (inflated incident by management), the arrogant attitud
38 Post contains images Lightsaber : Interesting... if this were true, why were the F/A's on my flights so cheerfull? Why did most of the ones I talked to quite will to discuss their exp
39 Luv2fly : This is true almost with every office job I have ever had, life goes on.
40 Crogalski : at jetblue, it's different.. the management, VP's will listen to anyone and everyone.. I've emailed Vinny Stabile a few times for some opinions, and
41 A330300 : I've spoken to Vinny Stabile personally, Dave Bushy, Holly Nelson etc. etc....all were sympathetic and very nice, but really didn't do much in terms o
42 Lightsaber : Wow! That's the same at my company. I don't disagree. There needs to be an in-company staff of employee advocates. My prefered system is "matrix mana
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