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Varig: Bye Bye Paris!  
User currently offlineTR763 From Brazil, joined Mar 2001, 772 posts, RR: 15
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10301 times:

I read in a Brazilian website that Varig is suspending six international destinations. ASU, VVI, CPH, MVD, LIS and... CDG!!

I couldn't believe when I read this! I thought that Paris was one of their most profitable int'l destination.
Anyway, this is part of a plan in which the airline would be divided in two: the international and the domestic Varig.
The cuts in these routes seems to be temporarily in my point of view, as they intend to open new routes, such as ORD, in the future.

One more plan to make this airline survive... Until when we will keep seeing these soup operas of ideas instead of a possible and concrete solution (if it exists, and I hope it does, really!)???

Best Rgs!
TR763


Transbrasil
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4963 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10271 times:

So Paris is gone as well? I hope all these measures will actually help and get RG back on its feet. It is very sad to see one of the biggest airlines in the region in such a terrible situation. Hopefully this will change

regards  Smile



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10271 times:

And the deterioration of a once great airline continues...

One of the reasons of ending these flights are the MD11s which are being returned (involuntary?) to the leasing companies?



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2458 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

Quoting TR763 (Thread starter):
I read in a Brazilian website that Varig is suspending six international destinations. ASU, VVI, CPH,

oh dear......CPH....I believe there are 2 of our anet members flying to CPH on RG in the next couple of weeks!

Glenn



http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlineHentzz From Estonia, joined Mar 2006, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

This is really sad Sad I really hope that they will survive, but if they keep cuting routes like that it seems very unlikely. Hopefully the management knows what they are doing.

User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10195 times:

Holy cow!!!  Wow! Thank God I braved the cold and went to CPH when I did (early March)! That's terrible news!

Saludos,

ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16946 posts, RR: 48
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10166 times:

Quoting Hentzz (Reply 4):
This is really sad

Idunno about sad...it's like watching the most predictable long drawn-out slow train wreck ever... Yeah sure



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10166 times:

Realy sad news, I sure hope they dont drop LHR!  Sad

As for the LIS flight, looks like RG will just codeshare from now on to Brazil/Portugal  Sad

Will the 763 that currently operates the LIS route be returned, or moved elsewhere?

A real shame about CDG, TAM and AF will love this news! Will either AF or TAM be able to benifit from RG leaving CDG, in other words will they increase flights?

I love seeing Varig in Europe and especialy their MD11's  Sad

CPH, AMS, CDG, NRT, LIS... who will be next, hopefuly not LHR, JFK, FRA or MUC!

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10145 times:

Those news about Varig the last weeks are so sad and it becomes worse and worse. I think we could name it a kind of painfull dying.

Well, never give up the hope, I sincerly wish the best for the entire Varig staff, going trough such difficult times.

Kind regards
Legacy135 Wink


User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 743 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10106 times:

Quoting TR763 (Thread starter):
Varig is suspending six international destinations. VVI

VVI? That used to be a prime destination for RG although I recognize that the route GRU-Curitiba-VVI is a disaster as two weeks ago I flew the route and from Curitiba only around 30 pax were on the aircraft = total loss.

Starting when will RG stop VVI service, this is important for me to know as I am expecting persons on the RG 8880 flight next week?


User currently offlineTR763 From Brazil, joined Mar 2001, 772 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10087 times:

Quoting EZYAirbus (Reply 3):
I believe there are 2 of our anet members flying to CPH on RG in the next couple of weeks



Quoting 123 (Reply 9):
Starting when will RG stop VVI service,

In the site I read it, there wasn't any specification of when will all this occur. But I'm searching for it.

Rgs!
TR763



Transbrasil
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8876 posts, RR: 40
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10039 times:

This is not necessarely all BAD news, guys. But it means they will be optimizing their limited fleet to make more money. It's sad to see them leaving CDG, and it's sad that they aren't doing well there, but this can be seen as they are going to fly to more profitable places. It does not mean that CDG is losing money, which I really have no idea if it is or not.

In the article I provide the link below, they also state increased MUC and LAX frequencies. As well as the possible ORD service mentioned by TR763.

But all this is probably only going to happen if the plan for the "International" and "Domestic" Varig gets approved by the creditors.

http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/mater...1501-2362000/2361801/2361801_1.xml

Cheers!

[Edited 2006-05-04 22:06:16]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLijnden From Philippines, joined Apr 2003, 559 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9912 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

A few weeks ago I thought Varig Log (with USA investors) were interested in Varig. Anyway, I do not expect Varig to collapse soon (who would bring the Brasilian team to Germany? Emirates...).
How many MD-11's do they have right now?



Be kind to animals!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9912 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
Will the 763 that currently operates the LIS route be returned, or moved elsewhere?

I thought it was a 772A which operated GRU-LIS.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 12):
A few weeks ago I thought Varig Log (with USA investors) were interested in Varig.

I believe they were, but the deal was rejected, either by the government or the bankruptcy court, maybe Felipe knows.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9795 times:

Highly sad news.
I still remember the good old days when they came to Paris (Orly , not yet CDG) with 707s.
It's so sad to see an airline deasapearing out of the Parisian sky , after having been there for decades , beginning with Panair Do Brasil with DC8 and Constellations !!!!!!!!!!!


User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 743 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9679 times:

Quoting TR763 (Reply 10):
Quoting 123 (Reply 9):
Starting when will RG stop VVI service,

In the site I read it, there wasn't any specification of when will all this occur. But I'm searching for it.

Hello TR763... any news, I have certain urge? That´s what a.net is for, to get first hand reliable info, thanks in advance!


User currently offlineNoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9651 times:

Quoting EZYAirbus (Reply 3):
oh dear......CPH....I believe there are 2 of our anet members flying to CPH on RG in the next couple of weeks!

Hoorah! I'm meant to be doing the RG flight on this day but we've been kind of hoping we'd be able to cancel as we're a little short of cash - at least if they go belly up we can hopefully claim some money back rather than lose it. Lets just hope they offer us a choice of re-accommodating us or getting a refund!

If they don't we're insured anyway.

Cheers,
Noel


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9578 times:

I am not surprised by this move. TAM is already flying twice daily GRU-GIG and AF is rapiding expanding serving CDG-GIG daily and CDG-GRU 10 x week and to be increased to twice daily soon (plus AF will start deploying the B773 to GRU).

RG cannot compete against TAM and AF. And you can expect RG to pull out of even more international destinations. It simply represents de downfall of the airline. The optimization of the route network is extremely necessary. It also makes sense to launch ORD and increase services to LAX and MUC.

As for VVI, MVD and ASU, TAM and GOL are taking care of these markets. CPH was only operated 3 x week with a stop-over in LHR (which soon will also be gone when TAM starts services there). Finally, LIS is left for partner TAP which this month added extra 6 weekly flights to GRU/GIG. You can expect JFK to be dropped soon and maybe even MIA - both of which are getting excellent service by TAM.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9445 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 2):
One of the reasons of ending these flights are the MD11s which are being returned (involuntary?) to the leasing companies?

You're right, they need to return 2 more M11's this year IIRC.

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
Will the 763 that currently operates the LIS route be returned, or moved elsewhere?

Moved to MIA in order to replace one M11 that need to leave the fleet.

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
A real shame about CDG, TAM and AF will love this news! Will either AF or TAM be able to benifit from RG leaving CDG, in other words will they increase flights?

Tam can obtain more planes or even try a daily light flight to get the market RG will leave. If they can run a day-light they won't need any additional aircraft.

Quoting 123 (Reply 9):
VVI? That used to be a prime destination for RG although I recognize that the route GRU-Curitiba-VVI is a disaster as two weeks ago I flew the route and from Curitiba only around 30 pax were on the aircraft = total loss.

123, VVI with a US$/R$ rate so low is unprofitable as well as MVD, ASU and any other south american route without business class (the new service BSB-POA-EZE probably will be dropped too). RG can sell a GIG-IGU-GIG for US$ 500 but need to charge no more than US$ 320 for a GIG-CWB-ASU-CWB-GIG.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
I thought it was a 772A which operated GRU-LIS.

They have only 3 flying , PP-VRA (the only one ER flying) on GRU-FRA, PP-VRC on GRU-JFK-GRU and PP-VRJ on GIG-GRU-MXP-GRU-GIG.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
You can expect JFK to be dropped soon and maybe even MIA - both of which are getting excellent service by TAM.

Hardi, i doubt RG will drop MIA and JFK. They will try to improve such routes (back to 2 planes) as the business traffic to those markets are very impressive.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
The optimization of the route network is extremely necessary. It also makes sense to launch ORD and increase services to LAX and MUC.

I can't understand why RG doesn't increase their most profitable routes (GIG-FRA and GRU-FRA). Their fixed cost is paid, any additional flight will be additional profit, and with the fact that LH reduced their flights (LH will run an extra FRA-GRU-FRA on June 9/10 as LH500/LH501 A343), probably will be profitable also!
That's why i believe RG management is crazy, FRA is in need of flights!

It seems this move will give us a good picture of the future: Does RG with a smaller network/fleet will be in conditions to pay their huge past debit ? Also, i believe RG will be in 1 or 2 years, easy to be replaced , something that nowadays can cause some troubles.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9249 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
CPH, AMS, CDG, NRT, LIS... who will be next, hopefuly not LHR, JFK, FRA or MUC!

I name it: BOG. The airline´s lowest load factors in the international network are from BOG. AV is just kicking their ass.

Its so sad to see RG downsizing this way...and in the domestic market its even more dramatic....lets hope they make it


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
I name it: BOG. The airline´s lowest load factors in the international network are from BOG. AV is just kicking their ass.

I don't know if they are the lowest, but RG has significantly improved its performance in BOG ever since they reduced capacity. In fact, during the present low-season they have actually been registering decent loads according to the season.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
AV is just kicking their ass.

They are. 83% of average load-factors during low-season and among the best yields of their whole South American operation is much more than expected.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineLukasMako From Austria, joined Feb 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8304 times:

Why are they dropping LIS?
And make higher frequenzy on airports like MUC. I can't imagine that MUC is a bigger market than LIS.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7736 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
CPH, AMS, CDG, NRT, LIS... who will be next, hopefuly not LHR, JFK, FRA or MUC

The day we see them not fly to LHR is the day i suspect they close down ops!

Hope they pull through!


User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2719 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7634 times:

Quoting LVZXV (Reply 5):
Thank God I braved the cold and went to CPH

Come on Maximo !CPH is not that cold...wait untill you visit me in Tromso ! Big grin

When it comes to Varig,i think it's just a technical procedures.They are cleaning their house and they will be back like they always did before
Forza Varig
Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion para la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineReverseThrust From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7378 times:

I have just spoken with VARIG Reservations in the UK as I am flying to CPH with them on 26 May.

They are not aware of any confirmed route cancellations, and all flights are still showing as active, and operating with the MD-11.

If they suspend the route, they will offer re-booking with Star Alliance Carriers first, then others, then if you are still not happy, a refund.

Fingers crossed folks!

Reverse.



Flown MD11/81/82/83/87/90,B732/733/734/735/737W/738/739/742/752/753,F70/100,A300/319/320/321/332/333/343,TU134A/154M,L10
25 Post contains images B707Stu : LIS is the most shocking withdrawal to me. I think of 1980 when I flew JFK-GIG-JFK on their D10. Amazing service, great seats, inflight dining. RG was
26 Sunshine79 : Noel, Im the same. I´ve booked my EZY and BD connecting flights too, so will loose loads of money even if I dont go. Doe´s anyone know when the
27 Maperrin : Ok. Everyone is crying. It sounds like Swissair slow fall. But, on thenother hand, having done more than 100 transcontinental flights formnBrazil in t
28 Flying Belgian : Not surprising at all. First they dropped AMS which was coupled with CDG. I don't see any reason why they'd be able to fill up a full MD11 so quickly.
29 SU : That's so sad. I have a fligth booked on June 10 GRU/LHR/CPH and looking forward to get on RG and MD11, beside I will need to get back home...
30 Glennpower : So no more CDG,well time is really running out,because if they do not find a big cashflow input in the next month or so it will be extremely critical,
31 123 : Yes and no for VVI. RG had a nonstop, which was naturally more convenient than GOL, TAM, 5L. Also, RG had early morning departures from GRU to VVI, m
32 Hardiwv : You can be sure that TAM or GOL will seize RG's GRU-VVI market. What I meant is that TAM or GOL will introduce nonstop VVI-GRU soon. Rgs,
33 Post contains links and images CityAirline : 30?? Oh thats low. I flew GRU-VVI december 2004 and the flight only had few open seats. I had arrived from CPH on RG actually, and it was only 2 hrs
34 N405MX : Unfortunately very strong rumors say that MEX will be next, 2 weeks ago, actually the Union is only waiting for the order from Brazil to close MEX. R
35 LipeGIG : I obtained some loads on RG flights on May 2nd. It's low season, tuesday but is the return of the labor day. GIG VRG2820 VIX 0630 PP-VNZ PAXS: 113 PUA
36 TR763 : I still can't find the dates that they are going to cancel the routes I've posted! I believe that if you have a flight booked to/from one of these rou
37 JJMNGR : Next week will be posted an information from ANAC about market share and the domestic market share is going to be shown as bellow 15%.
38 Hardiwv : Lipe: your data shows again that VARIG is a viable airline, but it suffers from serious management problems. I hope the Government finds a way out to
39 JJMNGR : About RG loads posted by Lipe, important ok know is when these tkts were bought because for about a month, everybody that goes to an airport counter w
40 Post contains images PPVRA : I know... it's unimaginable, and really very sad [Edited 2006-05-05 20:12:17]
41 FCKC : What i hear about load factors , here at Paris is when you need a seat at the last minute , all TAM and AFR flights are fully booked and you always fi
42 Ghost77 : Is MEX closing too? RG's HQ's over here are moving out... and they're working with very reduce staff at the airport. So sad! Load factors still show h
43 123 : This is for sure including Curitiba. When I flew - like mentioned - the flight GRU-Curitiba was bursting full, in Curitiba only one (1) pax entered a
44 Post contains images Brasuca : All this Varig's new rigmarole consists only in route arrangement. Alvarez & Marsal, in charge of restructuring VARIG's finances, made public yesterda
45 JJMNGR : I heard something about Ocean and this issue but also heard that Mr. Efromovich had some problems in the past with BNDS and he is not so welcome there
46 Cedars747 : I cant imagine Brazil without Varig! They will survive ! Alex!!!
47 Incitatus : This all sounds like a shutdown of the airline - just like we have seen before with Vasp and Transbrasil. The airline dies by a handful of routes each
48 Brasuca : Indeed, but I wonder what's so different in Varig that their crisis is thousand times worse than those of VASP and TransBrasil's, yet they are still
49 LipeGIG : Hi Brasuca, for me the big difference is that Vasp and Transbrasil has own planes and decided to stop international operations in favor of domestic f
50 Glennpower : HI LipeGIG, By far you make the most sensible and anlytical posts with regards avaition in Brasil. I take my hat of to you.
51 LipeGIG : Thanks Glenn, I'm a passenger like you, just one more brazilian and you're also a strong and very important addition to this forum, always polite, wi
52 Glennpower : Hi, LipeGIG, Actually i am English and have lived in your fantastic country for 16 years. Bom fim do semana pra voce.
53 Sampa737 : Glenn, I too am an "estrangeiro" (sp?), an American, living in this fantastic country with my family for nearly 11 years. I enjoy the forum and apprec
54 LipeGIG : Yes, you're right. Monday will be a very important day for Varig. Hope they can survive. You live in São Paulo nowadays ? Glenn, nice words, thanks
55 USADreamliner : Oh, no! I can't take this anymore. So, I guess EZE,MUC,MIA and JFK are the money makers of RG right now? USADreamliner
56 Post contains images OHLHD : I have been to Brazil some weeks ago ( as you can see in my signature) and all RG flights I took were almost empty. I had some nice conversations with
57 Hardiwv : GIG-FRA and GRU-FRA are the top profit making routes of RG. Rgs,
58 Brasuca : Whoever takes on the New Varig (domestic) will need to provide connections to Old Varig (international) network, besides looking forward in growth at
59 Post contains images Persotvik : I'm glad I had a very nice flight with them last summer AMS-CDG-AMS, just to try their MD11
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