Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5165 posts, RR: 52 Posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5608 times:
AM eff June 4th 06 will pull out of ATL as a consequence of...??? It's 3 daily flights will be cx!! I don't what will be of CUN-ATL's... but most probably it will also be cx... this for sure is done in order to help and give more incomes and better LF's on routes to DL....!!!
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
Flight777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 28 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5516 times:
For the "busiest" airport in the US and therefore maybe the world, I just don't understand why ATL can't get more international carriers. I live in Augusta, GA about a good 2 hour drive east of ATL and love going to the airport when in town. They advertise that ATL is in an ideal US location, only 2-3 hours from anywhere so why no more international carriers other then BA, LH, SA (not much longer), etc. They also have a fairly decent cargo base. Anyway, just my 2 cents!!
Tu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5269 times:
Yep.........June sees both Aeromexico and SAA leaving ATL. SAA is done June 30th I believe. Sad.........but in reality, if DL didn't fly to FRA, LGW, AMS and CDG, I bet AF, BA, KL, and LH wouldn't serve ATL.
Tu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5240 times:
Quoting B4real (Reply 8): I disagree with you on that one. ATL would easily pull in CDG, LGW, and FRA without DL. AMS, ICN, and NRT I would agree with you, however.
Could be right. But I still think ATL is ATL becuase of DL. If they were to stop/disappear/etc I think ATL would just be a medium sized airport, similar to say CLT, PHX or the like. The city of Atlanta's businesses have taken a hit recently, with GM, Ford, and 2 US bases closing. Also, BellSouth is getting bought by AT&T so that may or may not go. I bet alot of companies with foreign ties would route their employees out of ATL on one of the US carriers into a larger city like ORD, JFK, or IAD that supports international traffic without a single dominant carrier. Also, remember that AF only tarted ATL after the hooked up with DL.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7430 posts, RR: 44 Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5159 times:
I noticed while looking for flights in September to Europe that AM was no longer sending its planes to ATL. I think this is a big mistake because the extensive codeshare agreement between AM and DL guaranteed good loads to AM in the MEX-ATL route. Any chance DL will do more than 3 daily flights with AM out of this route?
Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter): this for sure is done in order to help and give more incomes and better LF's on routes to DL....!
Since when is AM a charity institution? If this is the actual reason, then AM deserves to never do well. The aviation industry is a business, not a tea party.
I hope this is only a seasonal change due to fleet utilization issues or exploration of new routes and schedules.
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5165 posts, RR: 52 Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5123 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 10): Since when is AM a charity institution? If this is the actual reason, then AM deserves to never do well. The aviation industry is a business, not a tea party.
Its reciprocity and charity from DL to AM and viceversa. AM pulled out from SLC in favor of DL, soon DL is to start MEX from SLC and same thing as DL pulled out from LAX in favor of AM. More over, flying to Europe via ATL it isn't what it used to be before 9/11 (total security hassle, nothing else for those who have visa), I flew before and after with AM/DL to Europe via ATL&JFK and sure it wasn't the same, also, during the last years, the number of flights, frequencies and even airlines from Mexico to Europe have increased a lot lately and I think it will continue to do so. Even MTY and TLC have direct links to MAD now!
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3436 posts, RR: 10 Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4823 times:
ATL still gets a good number of international carries: KL, BA, LH, AF, JM, KE, and AC. Not to mention all the cargo carriers who fly to ATL. Come to MSP and see what we deal with, then people can complain.
So this is the world's busiest airport. Given that, I thought that there would be other carriers there from every continent and there is not. I guess that is because DL is so frigging big there, with some 1,000 daily flights to pretty much everywhere... Hubs are good for luring in international carriers to do international routes, but I guess when you have such an overpowering, dominant hub like DL has in ATL, it's impossible for anyone to come in and start service to a given location. So it looks like no foreign carriers want to go to cities like CLE or PIT because the hubs there are far too small, and they don't like ATL because it's too big. Look at hub airports like in JFK, ORD, and LAX. Those airports have a nice sized AA, UA, both hub, but not overwhelming, and they have well over a dozen foreign carriers serving those airports... Just my assumption here; it's probably false and even more false...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
Misbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4726 times:
Quoting Flight777 (Reply 2): For the "busiest" airport in the US and therefore maybe the world, I just don't understand why ATL can't get more international carriers
As was already mentioned, it's called Delta!
Still, I am always amazed with the sheer scale of Delta's operation. And the domnance over the world's busiest airport is just amazing.
It is a pity that ATL hardly has any international carriers other than the usual suspects (AF, BA, KL, LH) and a couple of others. But that's just to do with the fact that without Delta, ATL is almost nothing.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3436 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4700 times:
Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 20): But that's just to do with the fact that without Delta, ATL is almost nothing.
Wrong. I do recall FL having over 300 daily flights at ATL. ATL also used to be the largest hub of Eastern Airlines. Even without DL ATL would remain one of the world's busiest airports due to such heavy O&D traffic. ATL-MIA/FLL, ATL-NYC, ATL-D.C., and ATL-LAX are some of the busiest O&D routes in the country.
AM has only 1 flight a day on AM metal: AM600 MEX 1000 ATL 1420; sometimes on B752, sometimes on M80. Their 3 other flights are codeshares on DL metal: AM 5450, 5522, and 5094, all flown on DL's B738.
Quoting B4real (Reply 6): I have long drooled of CVG-MEX on DL. Preferably MD-90 equipment.
DL will be upgrading ints three daily runs to B752.
Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 13): perhaps MX could give it a try, or even 6A from MTY!
Unless a carrier has good codesharing connections with DL, there is no point in flying to ATL. O&D traffic between MEX and ATL is minimal.
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1): Well, DL gave up LAX-MEX in favor of codesharing with AM, maybe it was payback time
Kind of... AM gets very good prices in its codesharing deals with DL - plus AM handles all DL's pax between LAX-MEX, LAX-LIM and MIA-MEX, plus all the connections within Mexico.
Quoting Javomd88 (Reply 16): AM was asked through Skyteam to drop ATL because of DLs terrible financial situation!
There seems to be some loyal law in skyteams rules to help out between carriers in these types of situations!
Interesting... Care to name your source?
Anyway, the systems show 3x B752 flights/day... 543 seats/day each way, whereas the current offering 3x B738 (w/150) plus a 142-seat M80 OR a 181-seat B752, make 592 or 631 seats... An 8 to 10% seat offering reduction is not a big difference, and it indeed brings a more rational use of resources... especially considering AM will get rid of all station-related expenses, salaries, GSE, rentals, crew overnight stays, etc.
I believe it is a good move for both. Actually, IMHO AM will be benefiting the most in the long run given the current state of affairs...
Wilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4613 times:
I think that ATL's lack of int'l appeal could be it's location. From Europe, it is out of the way for connections to the US versus NYC or BOS. From Asia it would be good only for connections to Florida, but LAX and SFO can easily handle those. From Latin America, why overfly MIA which is the major Latin O&D spot. Other US cities with major Int'l traffic have tons of connecting traffic while ATL's would be mostly O&D. ATL is alot like DFW, IAH, or DEN; all big cities with major hubs but with anemic International traffic.
INTENSS From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 317 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4508 times:
Alot of people here are missing the very basics. The reason NYC, LA, and Chicago get alot of international carriers is because they are BIG cities with large numbers of foreign and affluent people who fly abroad. Atlanta isn't exactly a mecca for immigrants from [insert foreign destination here].
Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 20): And the dominance over the world's busiest airport is just amazing.
The reason ATL is the world's busiest airport is because of Delta, not the other way around. Although, being the only large airport in the area doesn't hurt either.
Pan Am also serves CUN from ATL twice a week...
[Edited 2006-05-05 09:55:12]
25 DAL767400ER: If that were the case, AF would be gone off CDG-ATL/CVG, KL off AMS-ATL, CO out of ATL, CVG and SLC, and DL and AZ would draw straws over JFK-MXP/FCO
26 767-332ER: I suppose you do not know that ATL happens to be one of the top O&D markets in the U.S. If you don't believe me, go and check out the lines for the s
27 INTENSS: Now we're defining O&D numbers by the length of the security check-in line? They're long because they're designed around an antiquated choke point ch
28 JasonCRH: i wouldnt exactly call IAH's international traffic "anemic". For better or worse, today's oil industry economy makes traffic out of IAH to internatio
29 767-332ER: And maybe because as of 2002 ATL was the second largest O&D area in the country. I couldn't find the exact link in the BTS data pile that they have (
30 Globalflyer: I hate this! I was hoping we would see all Skyteam carriers fly to ATL, but it appears this will never be the case! Not that there is anything wrong w
31 Steeler83: CLE is a rather small hub with some 220 or 240 flights, and the designation of PIT is focus city/secondary hub, according to US spokesmen anyway... I
32 Ghost77: Oh! I didn't knew that! IIRC, once not long ago AM had 3X; 2, B752 sometimes 1 B752 and MD80 and 1; MD87 (from CUN) plus 2 DL B752s to MEX. It was 4X
33 DAL767400ER: It will actually be 3x 757. Alitialia always comes up again, though whether that will actually happen, I doubt it. At least freight carriers like Cat
34 767-332ER: I think its a good idea as long as DL can lock in the passengers and not loose any to the other alliances. Skyteam is putting great effort in DL by do
35 MAH4546: On the contrary, it probably has the best, though it is a business market, not one filled with low-yielding Cancun tourists. Not as a dense a market
36 USPIT10L: The last time a foreign carrier had transatlantic service to PIT, it WAS a hub, back in 1999. BA pulled out on October 31, 1999.
37 767-332ER: Alright, but out of the areas listed, I would put only New York City ahead based on the airports listed. NYC-LGA, JFK & EWR Now for the rest, I would
38 SESGDL: In terms of the largest O&D markets, the list for 2005 looked something like this: 1) New York City/Newark 2) Los Angeles Area 3) Chicago 4) Washingto
39 Rojo: Too bad to hear that AM will drop ATL. DL customer service sucks. On my last flight MEX-ATL, I was booked for the 3:50pm flight, but my brother was fl
40 767-332ER: Jeremy, let me know where you find these numbers...I just couldn't find anything after trying to sift thru BTS data...and I couldn't think of any oth
41 SLCUT2777: It's called O&D traffic! New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago represent the three largest population centers in the USA. While Atlanta is in the to
42 INTENSS: This has already been rebutted, but I'll add that this info is incorrect (as an area). No more misleading statistics, please. And this economy would
43 767-332ER: None of the provided stats were incorrect, so if you have a problem with them, keep it to yourself or don't post. Yes, my statement on area was off,
44 INTENSS: I didn't fail to notice anything. Those other cities have MUCH larger numbers of foreigners and international tourists. You seem to be missing this k
45 Javomd88: Adriaticus, Source: AM Station Manager for ATL/at Skyteam monthly meeting Mid-March. He was told at that meeting that by September the flight would be
46 Adriaticus: Wow! Thanks... So there IS more to the SkyTeam alliance than codesharing and keeping up quality standards; it is a support network as well!! It must