Naritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 545 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3699 times:
I'm wondering why NH does not fly to Canada and why JL doesn't fly to Eastern Canada? The NRT-YYZ traffic seems to be very strong with high prices. I would have thought more interest from Japan's carriers particularly in the summer season. any thoughts from folks at NH and JL would be greatly appreciated.
UnitedFirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3671 times:
With regards to NH, I'm pretty confident that AC's service is enough for both of them. If there were more revenue potential there, I'm sure NH would jump right in because AC is under a bit of a capacity crunch right now and literally cannot increase service Canada-Japan, or anywhere else for that matter.
Can't say for JL, but it might have something to do with the Star Alliance lock-up of the market.
Naritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 3): Sure, I'll bet Halifax, Moncton and St. John's, who just announced the loss of AC LHR service, can't wait for direct service to Japan.
With all due respect and requisite sensitivity, The cities you mention don't figure on the agenda of International airlines. I was refering to YYZ with onward connections to PEI perhaps.
The NH codeshare with AC seems to be turning people off as I have heard numerous time passengers being deceived buying NH coded ticket and flying AC metal. Yes, I know that the itinerary says flight operated by so and so but I can see how codeshare could be misleading.
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3328 times:
Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4): The NH codeshare with AC seems to be turning people off as I have heard numerous time passengers being deceived buying NH coded ticket and flying AC metal. Yes, I know that the itinerary says flight operated by so and so but I can see how codeshare could be misleading.
That is just sad to think. If I were to think like many of the locals in my town, it is the scare of being on a plane where most of the crew doesn't speak Japanese. They want Japanese FA, Crew and Service. They buy the ticket and can't even read "flight operated by...". The Alliance system is not known among the common Japanese. It is either JL or NH not NHXXXX operated by Air Canada or Star Alliance Partner.
As for NH operating to Canada. 787 comes in and it will happen.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Ktachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1729 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3232 times:
Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter): I would have thought more interest from Japan's carriers particularly in the summer season
Well. Wasn't it last year that NH actually did those flights into YYC?
And for (who knows how long) Japan has been operating flights 15/16 during the summer months into YVR making it a 10x weekly service.
As for NH not entering Canada, it is probably because of AC and star alliance permitting them from doing it.
But again I read on a few posts that when AC receives their 777-300ER, some of the first routes that they will use it on is YVR-NRT. So I guess NH needs the capacity.
And is it because AC doesn't have enough planes that they are not flying YVR-NGO AC 9/10 this year? And probably flying double daily KIX flights can cost them a lot can't it?
Wolsingerjet From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3121 times:
Well if the success of the recently operated KIX-YEG charter flights has any impact we could very well see a seasonal sevice on this route.The airports authority says it expects to see more flights this winter by ANA for the aurora express flights.
Wolsingerjet From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3046 times:
The flights will operate to YEG as YZF doesnt have a long enough strip to handle a full 744.Plus the tour companies have been marketing Jasper and West edmonton mall in the packages.
Irobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2991 times:
Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4): With all due respect and requisite sensitivity, The cities you mention don't figure on the agenda of International airlines. I was refering to YYZ with onward connections to PEI perhaps.
Pardon? Halifax, rated the best north american airport in its class last year, is only growing larger, what with a new international terminal under construction I believe. With the open skies agreement recently, I'm guessing more European carriers will stop there. Halifax is not an unimportant city in Canada and could do well with more international flights.
Frankly, if you wanted a weekly or bi-weekly flight from Japan to eastern Canada, I'd have it fly into Halifax and arrange for transportation into PEI. This is where I think a new low-cost regional carrier might do well. Canjet serves many cities on the east coast, but most are ____ to CYUL or CYOW or CYYZ. Only Jazz flies from say CYSJ or CYQY or CYYG to CYHZ. Someone could step in and fill this gap, at least during the summer months. Just a thought.
PS. I don't think ANYONE flies CYHZ to CYQB. There might be a route possibility there.
AlekToronto From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 328 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2978 times:
I gather simple economics. AC has YYZNRT and AC/JL have YVRNRT. This is probably enough capacity as AC flights to NRT are not that busy in the winter. Even in Spring local travel agents were selling the YYZNRT nonstop for $1000. Japanese carriers have high operating expenses compared to N Am airlines so they are probably more careful where they start service. JL and NH are not known for taking risks.
Ktachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1729 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2950 times:
Quoting Wolsingerjet (Reply 10): YZF doesnt have a long enough strip to handle a full 744
Thanks. Well I thought it would be YEG but when I flew on Canadian North to YZF this year, it felt like the plane took forever to stop on the rwy (due to the ice?) so I thought that they had a relatively long rwy. But again, there aren't customs or anything. Should have thought twice about that.
Wolsingerjet From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2889 times:
Something else I thought would make great sense would be for ANA or JAL to operate a NRT-YEG-YYC-NRT or KIX-YEG-YYC-KIX routing you would get both the Banff and Jasper/aurora tourists on these flights.CP used to operate a YYC-NRT routing and prior to that a NRT-YEG-YYC routing using DC-10s in the early to mid 90s that seemed to do well...
Irobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2735 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 5): I was only joking as Halifax and St. John's never get anything larger than 763s and JL or NH would require a 777 to fly that distance.
Sorry to be picking at an older post here, but this isn't entirely accurate. KLM used to fly 747-400s in during the 90s, and BA and AF used to use Halifax as a diversion base for their Concordes regularly, which I was lucky to witness once. Currently, I think you're right in that 767s are the largest pax aircraft to service Halifax but 747 cargo planes regularly pass through. It was, after all, an MK Airlines 747 that crashed on takeoff last year(?).
Halifax is more than well enough equipped to allow a few more heavies. The problem is that if tourists arriving from Asia wanted to go to, say, PEI, their only option IIRC is Jazz, and that's not a cheap connection. If Halifax were to ever expand significantly enough to allow more medium and heavy gates, a good LCC would do well to move in and offer regional service to these other atlantic airports and boost the tourism.
FLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2661 times:
Quoting AlekToronto (Reply 12): This is probably enough capacity as AC flights to NRT are not that busy in the winter
I operated YYZ-NRT right through the winter, and most flights were operating at 100% load factors. I figured most of the booked load would be for through connections to/from South America, but there were huge numbers of YYZ terminating customers of Japanese origin. YYZ in the dead of winter (from Japan)...go figure. Flights were operating generally 5 times per week, but based on loads, should have been daily.
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2771 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2568 times:
Generally, until NRT becomes a much less slot restricted airfield NH & JL will not establish new long-haul int'l routes. When was the last time NH started a totally new flight. NH tried NRT-ORD in around 2000 and gave up after a year.
I can't guess when JL last put a new long-haul destination up. LAS in ithe 90s?
Even it is going the wayside this fall. They even have dropped many cities all together from the 1990s like HAM, MAD, CPH, DUS, ATL, & DFW.
With the advent of alliances it makes much more sense to run a daily large aircraft flights to a hub and funnel pax thru it than to run two or three weeklies.
Thus rather than run a few weeklies to YUL or YYC, it's much better to channel pax thru YVR or YYZ.
Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 16): Flights were operating generally 5 times per week
AC 1/2/3/4 are all daily. Most likely one or both flights will likely see the 773ER when they get them.
Quoting Wolsingerjet (Reply 14): Something else I thought would make great sense would be for ANA or JAL to operate a NRT-YEG-YYC-NRT or KIX-YEG-YYC-KIX routing you would get both the Banff and Jasper/aurora tourists on these flights.CP used to operate a YYC-NRT routing and prior to that a NRT-YEG-YYC routing using DC-10s in the early to mid 90s that seemed to do well...
Sign that says: let the red-ink flow. Though definitely a charter run that can be and has been run at certain times of the year.
Naritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 545 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2519 times:
Thanks for all your thoughts. I think that Montreal and Quebec City are underrated as destinations but could be discovered by Japanese people if nonstop flights were introduced. Not to YQB but to Montreal perhaps as I'm sure young Japanese people would really like that city. I agree that with the 787 more new destinations might be introduced. I fly the YYZ-NRT periodically and the flight always seems full even in winter.
Irobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2513 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 20): Sorry, Polar Cargo stopped flying 747s to YHZ last year after Icelandic started YHZ cargo (mainly seafood) operations to Europe (757s).
Thanks for the info, wasn't aware of that. Haven't been home in a while.
FLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2495 times:
If AC doesn't have the equipment, wonder why NH hasn't picked up on YYZ-KIX--at least seasonally. Pre 9/11 AC operated 3 weekly flights on the route which were packed with Japanese tourists. Similarly, for Canadians heading to KIX--great city, and great jumping off point for Nara, Kyoto, Hiroshima, etc.
Doesn't necessarily translate into high revenue or profits.
NH has no desire to set up long-haul flights from KIX because of this reason. Too much leisure traffic and not enough premium traffic.
Just see JL's decision to end KIX-LAX. High load factors but no profits.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 7703 posts, RR: 55 Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2339 times:
Maybe we'll see Air Transat or Zoom extend eastwards? I haven't been to Vancouver but I think Toronto and Montreal are incredibly underrated as destination cities. I would say they are rivals of New York, San Francisco etc. Bearing in mind Canada's recent surge in both arts (tonnes of great music) and energy (Canadian oil sands will save us!) and the government's willingness to spend loads of cash promoting Canada abroad, we could soon see a major rise in tourism to Canada, so I wouldn't be surprised if Air Transat bought some secondhand A340-300s for Asia. Zoom could lease some 777s. Air Canada have a lot of longhaul markets to themselves right now, I bet they're doing well on YYZ-NRT, I'll be flying it myself next month. If oil doesn't do something weird like $200 / barrel, I predict in 2007 we'll have JAL or ANA doing 747s to YYZ and one of Canada's leisure airlines will be flying to Asia.
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