Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Will ANA Ever Fly To Canada?  
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

I'm wondering why NH does not fly to Canada and why JL doesn't fly to Eastern Canada? The NRT-YYZ traffic seems to be very strong with high prices. I would have thought more interest from Japan's carriers particularly in the summer season. any thoughts from folks at NH and JL would be greatly appreciated.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUnitedFirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5747 times:

With regards to NH, I'm pretty confident that AC's service is enough for both of them. If there were more revenue potential there, I'm sure NH would jump right in because AC is under a bit of a capacity crunch right now and literally cannot increase service Canada-Japan, or anywhere else for that matter.

Can't say for JL, but it might have something to do with the Star Alliance lock-up of the market.

Derek


User currently offlineRicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

JL does have codeshare service into Toronto via ORD with AA. As per nonstop, I cant see it happening.

User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5688 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter):
why JL doesn't fly to Eastern Canada

Sure, I'll bet Halifax, Moncton and St. John's, who just announced the loss of AC LHR service, can't wait for direct service to Japan.  sarcastic 

As far as NH into YVR or YYZ, it looks more like a no-go since AC capacity on those routes will get even bigger with 773ERs, which NH already has.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5609 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 3):
Sure, I'll bet Halifax, Moncton and St. John's, who just announced the loss of AC LHR service, can't wait for direct service to Japan.

With all due respect and requisite sensitivity, The cities you mention don't figure on the agenda of International airlines. I was refering to YYZ with onward connections to PEI perhaps.

The NH codeshare with AC seems to be turning people off as I have heard numerous time passengers being deceived buying NH coded ticket and flying AC metal. Yes, I know that the itinerary says flight operated by so and so but I can see how codeshare could be misleading.

Thanks for the replies.


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5552 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4):
The cities you mention don't figure on the agenda of International airlines.

I was only joking as Halifax and St. John's never get anything larger than 763s and JL or NH would require a 777 to fly that distance.

Halifax does have two international carriers, Icelandic and Lufthansa subsidiary Condor.

[Edited 2006-05-05 20:38:13]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5404 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4):
The NH codeshare with AC seems to be turning people off as I have heard numerous time passengers being deceived buying NH coded ticket and flying AC metal. Yes, I know that the itinerary says flight operated by so and so but I can see how codeshare could be misleading.

That is just sad to think. If I were to think like many of the locals in my town, it is the scare of being on a plane where most of the crew doesn't speak Japanese. They want Japanese FA, Crew and Service. They buy the ticket and can't even read "flight operated by...". The Alliance system is not known among the common Japanese. It is either JL or NH not NHXXXX operated by Air Canada or Star Alliance Partner.

As for NH operating to Canada. 787 comes in and it will happen.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5308 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter):
I would have thought more interest from Japan's carriers particularly in the summer season

Well. Wasn't it last year that NH actually did those flights into YYC?

And for (who knows how long) Japan has been operating flights 15/16 during the summer months into YVR making it a 10x weekly service.

As for NH not entering Canada, it is probably because of AC and star alliance permitting them from doing it.

But again I read on a few posts that when AC receives their 777-300ER, some of the first routes that they will use it on is YVR-NRT. So I guess NH needs the capacity.

And is it because AC doesn't have enough planes that they are not flying YVR-NGO AC 9/10 this year? And probably flying double daily KIX flights can cost them a lot can't it?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineWolsingerjet From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5197 times:

Well if the success of the recently operated KIX-YEG charter flights has any impact we could very well see a seasonal sevice on this route.The airports authority says it expects to see more flights this winter by ANA for the aurora express flights.


Guess what???I dont like you either...
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Quoting Wolsingerjet (Reply 8):
The airports authority says it expects to see more flights this winter by ANA for the aurora express flights

To Edmonton or directly to Yellowknife or elsewhere?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineWolsingerjet From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

The flights will operate to YEG as YZF doesnt have a long enough strip to handle a full 744.Plus the tour companies have been marketing Jasper and West edmonton mall in the packages.


Guess what???I dont like you either...
User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4):
With all due respect and requisite sensitivity, The cities you mention don't figure on the agenda of International airlines. I was refering to YYZ with onward connections to PEI perhaps.

Pardon? Halifax, rated the best north american airport in its class last year, is only growing larger, what with a new international terminal under construction I believe. With the open skies agreement recently, I'm guessing more European carriers will stop there. Halifax is not an unimportant city in Canada and could do well with more international flights.

Frankly, if you wanted a weekly or bi-weekly flight from Japan to eastern Canada, I'd have it fly into Halifax and arrange for transportation into PEI. This is where I think a new low-cost regional carrier might do well. Canjet serves many cities on the east coast, but most are ____ to CYUL or CYOW or CYYZ. Only Jazz flies from say CYSJ or CYQY or CYYG to CYHZ. Someone could step in and fill this gap, at least during the summer months. Just a thought.

PS. I don't think ANYONE flies CYHZ to CYQB. There might be a route possibility there.


User currently offlineAlekToronto From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5054 times:

I gather simple economics. AC has YYZNRT and AC/JL have YVRNRT. This is probably enough capacity as AC flights to NRT are not that busy in the winter. Even in Spring local travel agents were selling the YYZNRT nonstop for $1000. Japanese carriers have high operating expenses compared to N Am airlines so they are probably more careful where they start service. JL and NH are not known for taking risks.

cheers
Alek


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

Quoting Wolsingerjet (Reply 10):
YZF doesnt have a long enough strip to handle a full 744

Thanks. Well I thought it would be YEG but when I flew on Canadian North to YZF this year, it felt like the plane took forever to stop on the rwy (due to the ice?) so I thought that they had a relatively long rwy. But again, there aren't customs or anything. Should have thought twice about that.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineWolsingerjet From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

Something else I thought would make great sense would be for ANA or JAL to operate a NRT-YEG-YYC-NRT or KIX-YEG-YYC-KIX routing you would get both the Banff and Jasper/aurora tourists on these flights.CP used to operate a YYC-NRT routing and prior to that a NRT-YEG-YYC routing using DC-10s in the early to mid 90s that seemed to do well...


Guess what???I dont like you either...
User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 5):
I was only joking as Halifax and St. John's never get anything larger than 763s and JL or NH would require a 777 to fly that distance.

Sorry to be picking at an older post here, but this isn't entirely accurate. KLM used to fly 747-400s in during the 90s, and BA and AF used to use Halifax as a diversion base for their Concordes regularly, which I was lucky to witness once. Currently, I think you're right in that 767s are the largest pax aircraft to service Halifax but 747 cargo planes regularly pass through. It was, after all, an MK Airlines 747 that crashed on takeoff last year(?).

Halifax is more than well enough equipped to allow a few more heavies. The problem is that if tourists arriving from Asia wanted to go to, say, PEI, their only option IIRC is Jazz, and that's not a cheap connection. If Halifax were to ever expand significantly enough to allow more medium and heavy gates, a good LCC would do well to move in and offer regional service to these other atlantic airports and boost the tourism.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4737 times:

Quoting AlekToronto (Reply 12):
This is probably enough capacity as AC flights to NRT are not that busy in the winter

I operated YYZ-NRT right through the winter, and most flights were operating at 100% load factors. I figured most of the booked load would be for through connections to/from South America, but there were huge numbers of YYZ terminating customers of Japanese origin. YYZ in the dead of winter (from Japan)...go figure. Flights were operating generally 5 times per week, but based on loads, should have been daily.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4644 times:

Generally, until NRT becomes a much less slot restricted airfield NH & JL will not establish new long-haul int'l routes. When was the last time NH started a totally new flight. NH tried NRT-ORD in around 2000 and gave up after a year.
I can't guess when JL last put a new long-haul destination up. LAS in ithe 90s?
Even it is going the wayside this fall. They even have dropped many cities all together from the 1990s like HAM, MAD, CPH, DUS, ATL, & DFW.
With the advent of alliances it makes much more sense to run a daily large aircraft flights to a hub and funnel pax thru it than to run two or three weeklies.
Thus rather than run a few weeklies to YUL or YYC, it's much better to channel pax thru YVR or YYZ.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 16):
Flights were operating generally 5 times per week

AC 1/2/3/4 are all daily. Most likely one or both flights will likely see the 773ER when they get them.

Quoting Wolsingerjet (Reply 14):
Something else I thought would make great sense would be for ANA or JAL to operate a NRT-YEG-YYC-NRT or KIX-YEG-YYC-KIX routing you would get both the Banff and Jasper/aurora tourists on these flights.CP used to operate a YYC-NRT routing and prior to that a NRT-YEG-YYC routing using DC-10s in the early to mid 90s that seemed to do well...

Sign that says: let the red-ink flow. Though definitely a charter run that can be and has been run at certain times of the year.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 17):
AC 1/2/3/4 are all daily. Most likely one or both flights will likely see the 773ER when they get them

AC 1 & 2 were not operating daily through Jan/Feb/Mar as evidenced by some of our 48 hour layovers downtown.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4595 times:

Thanks for all your thoughts. I think that Montreal and Quebec City are underrated as destinations but could be discovered by Japanese people if nonstop flights were introduced. Not to YQB but to Montreal perhaps as I'm sure young Japanese people would really like that city. I agree that with the 787 more new destinations might be introduced. I fly the YYZ-NRT periodically and the flight always seems full even in winter.

User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4595 times:

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 15):
but 747 cargo planes regularly pass through.

Sorry, Polar Cargo stopped flying 747s to YHZ last year after Icelandic started YHZ cargo (mainly seafood) operations to Europe (757s).



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 20):
Sorry, Polar Cargo stopped flying 747s to YHZ last year after Icelandic started YHZ cargo (mainly seafood) operations to Europe (757s).

Thanks for the info, wasn't aware of that. Haven't been home in a while.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

If AC doesn't have the equipment, wonder why NH hasn't picked up on YYZ-KIX--at least seasonally. Pre 9/11 AC operated 3 weekly flights on the route which were packed with Japanese tourists. Similarly, for Canadians heading to KIX--great city, and great jumping off point for Nara, Kyoto, Hiroshima, etc.


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4439 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 22):
packed with Japanese tourists

Doesn't necessarily translate into high revenue or profits.
NH has no desire to set up long-haul flights from KIX because of this reason. Too much leisure traffic and not enough premium traffic.
Just see JL's decision to end KIX-LAX. High load factors but no profits.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8045 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4415 times:

Maybe we'll see Air Transat or Zoom extend eastwards? I haven't been to Vancouver but I think Toronto and Montreal are incredibly underrated as destination cities. I would say they are rivals of New York, San Francisco etc. Bearing in mind Canada's recent surge in both arts (tonnes of great music) and energy (Canadian oil sands will save us!) and the government's willingness to spend loads of cash promoting Canada abroad, we could soon see a major rise in tourism to Canada, so I wouldn't be surprised if Air Transat bought some secondhand A340-300s for Asia. Zoom could lease some 777s. Air Canada have a lot of longhaul markets to themselves right now, I bet they're doing well on YYZ-NRT, I'll be flying it myself next month. If oil doesn't do something weird like $200 / barrel, I predict in 2007 we'll have JAL or ANA doing 747s to YYZ and one of Canada's leisure airlines will be flying to Asia.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Will SWA Ever Fly To ANC? posted Sun Oct 29 2006 19:59:02 by Boeingfever777
Will US Ever Fly To OKC/KOKC posted Fri Sep 23 2005 06:48:06 by Jetmatt777
Will EK Ever Fly To Washington DC? posted Thu Jun 2 2005 15:13:27 by IADBGO
Will BMI Ever Fly To Toronto? posted Thu Nov 22 2001 00:18:08 by Spotter
Will Lufthansa Ever Fly To Yul? posted Sat Sep 9 2000 14:02:56 by Noise
Will CO Ever Fly To Europe From The West Coast? posted Thu Aug 31 2000 05:21:32 by Ben88
Will TWA Ever Fly To Rome Again? posted Fri Jul 28 2000 15:17:21 by ContinentalEWR
Will Jet Airways Ever Fly To EWR? posted Sun Nov 20 2005 18:09:33 by Aseem
Will JetBlue Fly To Canada, Maybe Partner With WJ posted Thu Sep 15 2005 02:13:17 by Ppostro
Will Air Mauritius Ever Fly To The USA? posted Sun Aug 21 2005 04:11:31 by Juventus