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Chilean Presidential Aircraft :A330 Or 767?  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

After experiencing a window failure on the actual Chile AF1 (737-500) , during a trip to Paraguay , the new Chilean President want a new AF1.
No way for a BBJ as it seems she doesn't like the 737 anymore.........
No A319CJ as well.
The choice will be between one A330-200 or a 767-300 , depending of the funds available.
In any case will be a new presidential aircraft type , as up to now , no head of state flies with one of the types above.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
No A319CJ as well

Why not?



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3957 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
The choice will be between one A330-200 or a 767-300

767-300ER, I assume?

With LAN operating a large fleet of 767s I'd assume that it would have the advantage.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4870 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

This is ridiculous, all planes go through equipment failures from time to time. Frankly I think the minister of transport should decide what she needs and that should be that. Besides what does she know about planes anyway? If you put a dirty 777 right next to a well groomed DC8 she would likely pick the clean plane  Yeah sure

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Besides what does she know about planes anyway?

Good one! I was thinking about the same.  Wink



Tom from Cologne
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
With LAN operating a large fleet of 767s I'd assume that it would have the advantage

Not necessarily, AFAIK LAN is 100% private and has nothing to do with the Chilean Air Force.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
After experiencing a window failure on the actual Chile AF1 (737-500) , during a trip to Paraguay , the new Chilean President want a new AF1.
No way for a BBJ as it seems she doesn't like the 737 anymore.........



Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
This is ridiculous, all planes go through equipment failures from time to time. Frankly I think the minister of transport should decide what she needs and that should be that. Besides what does she know about planes anyway? If you put a dirty 777 right next to a well groomed DC8 she would likely pick the clean plane

Please.. It was the Chilean Air Force who made that decision due to the fact that they need more range and capacity (I guess I answered my own post about why not the A319  Wink ) and more modern with new safety measures required for a Presidential Plane.
The agenda of President Bachellet will require extensive trips to Asia-Pacific region and the stops are always a safety issue when transporting a President.

President Bachellet is not ignorant to consider a change of planes just because this minor incident (as she called it).

BTW, I am pretty sure she would have picked the 777 in the idiotic example but again, she is not the one in charge or deciding the plane change, but the Chilean Air Force.

Have you guys ever been to Chile? Do you know how well organized is that country and its Air Force and how well cultured is President Bachellet?



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

PM , of course a 767-300ER

RICAZIRA

Probably the choice will be made by the Chilean AF.
The actual 737-500 needs 2 stops to come in Europe (4600 kms range) and 3 stops to go to Asia Pacific.
As you said trips to Asia Pacific being planned a new great range plane is needed.
I guess an A319CJ has a great range , but probably less than a 330-200 . or a 767-300ER.
A second hand 767-300ER coming from LAN or another source would be the cheapest solution , but A 330-200 sporting the Chilean AF colors .....WOW............

I guess the Chilean AF is well structured , and having heard President Bachelet at the French TV , speaking in French , she is well cultured.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Well I think a 762ER would also have some chances as it has more range than the 763ER. LA could also maintain those and there are some offered for sale.


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4745 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3720 times:
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why would the head of state of a nation the size of Chile need a large VIP plane for occasional trips overseas??? Is the price of copper that high these days???

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3701 times:

I can't help thinking what a superb VIP plane the A340-500 would be - provided you have the $$$.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3676 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
Quoting PM (Reply 2):
With LAN operating a large fleet of 767s I'd assume that it would have the advantage

Not necessarily, AFAIK LAN is 100% private and has nothing to do with the Chilean Air Force.

LAN can maintain the aircraft for the FACh.

The B762 is a good choice too, but what about A340-200s? Longer range than the A332s and 762ERs, about the same size, plus the "peace of mind" of four engines... I don't believe in the four engines for long haul theory, but considering it's a VIP aircraft, i bet Airbus can play that game with the FACh.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineWhiteBirdFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Besides what does she know about planes anyway? If you put a dirty 777 right next to a well groomed DC8 she would likely pick the clean plane

Since her father was a rather well-respected Chilean Air Force General, I'd guess she might know at least as much as some of the A.net posters.  Wink

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
Have you guys ever been to Chile? Do you know how well organized is that country and its Air Force and how well cultured is President Bachellet?

Dr. Bachellet is a Medical Doctor and was Minister of Defence, which presumes a rather high degree of education in the first instance in a country like Chile and in the second instance at least a working knowledge of military aircraft. I'd say she's an extremely well-qualified head of state.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 8):
why would the head of state of a nation the size of Chile need a large VIP plane for occasional trips overseas??? Is the price of copper that high these days???

Yes it is. But it's not the size of the plane, it's the range that the Chilean Government is interested in, as already noted. The new President is going to be going on more than "occasional" trips. Besides, as the model economy of South America, Chile's prestige might occasion such a purchase. In point of fact and as an example, in the USA the old 707 was a fine Air Force One - the absolute necessity of having a 747 for the US President isn't quite grounded in service as much as it is in evidence.

Cordially,
WhiteBirdFlyer


User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting FCKC (Reply 6):
I guess the Chilean AF is well structured , and having heard President Bachelet at the French TV , speaking in French , she is well cultured.



Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 11):
Dr. Bachellet is a Medical Doctor and was Minister of Defence, which presumes a rather high degree of education in the first instance in a country like Chile and in the second instance at least a working knowledge of military aircraft. I'd say she's an extremely well-qualified head of state

Exactly my point...!  Wink



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4870 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
Have you guys ever been to Chile? Do you know how well organized is that country and its Air Force and how well cultured is President Bachellet?

I wasn't knocking the president, relax.  Yeah sure

Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 11):
Since her father was a rather well-respected Chilean Air Force General, I'd guess she might know at least as much as some of the A.net posters.

Well my Dad has a Medical background but I'll bet that doesn't qaulify me to equip a hospital or perform a surgery.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Why 330/767 when there´s BBJ and ACJ?

Micke//SWE  Confused



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4745 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3519 times:
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Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 11):
Yes it is. But it's not the size of the plane, it's the range that the Chilean Government is interested in, as already noted. The new President is going to be going on more than "occasional" trips. Besides, as the model economy of South America, Chile's prestige might occasion such a purchase. In point of fact and as an example, in the USA the old 707 was a fine Air Force One - the absolute necessity of having a 747 for the US President isn't quite grounded in service as much as it is in evidence.

If Tony Blair can charter a BA plane for state visits, the President of Chile does not need something owned by the state for these overseas visits. Unless you are saying a LAN 767 is woefully inadequate for intercontinental trips. You don't see the President of S. Korea or Taiwan or Singapore flying around in a large plane with intercontinental range owned by the state! But then maybe the reason those 3 nations have some of the strongest economies in the world and some of the largest forex reserves is because they don't waste state money on what is truely nothing more than an extravagance and exercise in showing off. Which is why many economies in the southern hemisphere are in the predicament they are in.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3482 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
Which is why many economies in the southern hemisphere are in the predicament they are in.

That is, without a doubt, one of the most ignorant comments I have heard or read in a long time. I've heard many words used to describe the Chilean economy both in Chile and in this country, and predicament is certainly not one of them. I'd say 6+% growth last year was pretty darn good. Is it perfect? No, but it's certainly not an economic failure.

You should ask some of the Argentine members here if the Argentine economy is a failure. Last time I checked, Argentina was in the Southern hemisphere too.

[Edited 2006-05-06 06:15:29]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineWhiteBirdFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3446 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
the President of Chile does not need something owned by the state for these overseas visits.

I suppose that would be up to the Chilean Government, and by extension, the Chileans that elected it, to decide. I was simply commenting on possible motivations given their current ascendancy in all areas of economic output and coming role in Latin American politics. More that a few observers, much more knowledgeable and astute than I am to be sure, predict quite a few Santiago-Bejing flights in the coming years. Chile has a lot of resources emerging super-economies like China are interested in.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 14):
Unless you are saying a LAN 767 is woefully inadequate for intercontinental trips

I never addressed the possibility of a LAN charter or even came close to that. LAN seems to have a modern and stately fleet. Again, it seems to be up to the Chileans.

Does sort of beg the question given the USA's huge amount of adequate planes, why the President simply doesn't charter one of the many aircraft privately owned or parked in MHV or didn't continue to use the 707's. Sure, certainly it's a matter of prestige, showing off and all that. The USA has been rather good with Air Force One in that area, not to mention Marine One, etc. However, if Chile wants a new intercontinental-capable official plane, let them get one. I just hope they buy it from Boeing.  Wink

Quoting YOWza (Reply 13):
Well my Dad has a Medical background but I'll bet that doesn't qaulify me to equip a hospital or perform a surgery.

Well, no, but it would likely give you a leg up if you were presented with a choice between a dirty and unclean yet brand-new CAT scanner and a spiffy, highly-polished yet ancient Fluoroscope.  Wink

Cordially,
WhiteBirdFlyer


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4745 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3366 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
You should ask some of the Argentine members here if the Argentine economy is a failure. Last time I checked, Argentina was in the Southern hemisphere too.

so 2or 3 out of many more makes a majority or even a trend???
more to the point, why is it that of many nations, many of whom were at economic parity after WW2, some developed and took off a few deacdes before the others? poor management and wanting to buy fancy toys for their government leaders and frittering away resources may certainly be near the top of the list of reasons. Not saying thats necessarily going on in Chile now but their economy while outstanding by S American standards is debatable as to being major league by world standards.

Quoting WhiteBirdFlyer (Reply 17):
More that a few observers, much more knowledgeable and astute than I am to be sure, predict quite a few Santiago-Bejing flights in the coming years. Chile has a lot of resources emerging super-economies like China are interested in.

I'm sure she is going to be travelling far more across oceans than the UK PM or Queen and so needs a personal plane and an expensive one at that. Now in some instances for security, I could see that you need it, especially if the person on the plane perhaps had a nuke key to control or were likely target to get blown out of the sky, or did I miss Chile joining the nuclear club or having major enemies??? Must have happened sometime between the N Koreans saying they had nukes and the Iranians saying they want it.
Fact is, Chile is not Saudi or Japan economically where they literally have money from petty cash account to flush down the john, it is not diplomatically or militarily in the category of the UK either. So why does she need a A330/777 or whatever. For hemispheric trips which would be far more common, a BBJ would be more than adequate. Anything more is pure excess. If the Chilean people want her to have it so be it. But for a nation whose military capital budget expenditure varies depending on royalties from natural resources doesn't seem like the wisest business decision to me.Which is why that part of the world is about a quarter century behind in its development compared to some other parts.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 18):
more to the point, why is it that of many nations, many of whom were at economic parity after WW2, some developed and took off a few deacdes before the others? poor management and wanting to buy fancy toys for their government leaders and frittering away resources may certainly be near the top of the list of reasons.

I would argue that prevailing economic theory in the post-WWII time period which turned out to be wrong was most of the problem. Heck, Argentina had the seventh largest GDP in the world in 1940. Argentina incurred massive debt and also attempted a policy of ISI which (basically) failed. Still, to lump most economies in the southern hemisphere together seems flawed to me. Ever fly on an Embraer?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAviationAddict From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3319 times:
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Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Besides what does she know about planes anyway?

A little judgmental don't you think? Maybe she knows a lot about planes, hell, maybe she's even an A.net member!


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4745 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3284 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
Ever fly on an Embraer?

yeah, they're as bad as Canadairs except for the Ejets, so whats your point, ever drived a Hyundai or used a Lenovo??

my point is given where some of those economies started from, as you yourself say Argentina was 7th largest GDP in 1940, they have done a less than spectacular job (in fact it can be reasonably argued they have done appalingly) and it still remains the case that the Chiles, Argentinas and Brazils are the exception rather than the rule on that continent.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

How about Australia and NZ? Both are in the Southern Hemisphere.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4745 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3263 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
How about Australia and NZ? Both are in the Southern Hemisphere.

ok, let me rephrase that, how about in Latin America, and subsaharan Africa


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Solnabo

The Chile AF doesn't want 737s anymore , and A319CJ seems to be too small.


25 PPVRA : If the aircraft is going to be operated by the Airforce, that means the expenses are going to be paid from Chile's military budget, no? Meaning there
26 Cubsrule : Yes, and FACh (along with the rest of the armed forces) is extraordiarily well-funded (10% of CODELCO reveunes go to the armed forces by law ... $378
27 WhiteBirdFlyer : Is there any sort of purchasing rule in Chile that says they have to buy new, so to speak? I'd guess there is at least one 767-300ER sitting unused at
28 AR385 : Wo, wow, wow Yes, been there, and I profoundly respect Ms. Bachellet. About the country being well organized, well beyond Santiago (and certain areas
29 Cubsrule : As long as China keeps growing, the price of copper is safe. Your statement is relatively misleading too, in that less than primary products only acc
30 RICARIZA : Well, first of all, you just described every country in the world, including the United States. Second, stop reading the exaggerated countries descri
31 Cubsrule : As Chile's ties with Asia strengthen, I wonder if a 757 would have the range. SCL-SFO-PEK is 2 5900 mile segments. How far can souped up 752s go?
32 AR385 : Instead of a personal attack, like "You have no idea what you are saying" let me tell you that I do not read the US State Department web page. What I
33 Post contains images Scbriml : What difference does it actually make? Or does only the self-proclaimed "war president" leader of the Free World need a fleet of 747s to fly around i
34 Cubsrule : Therein lies our disagreement... Not up to U.S. standards, to me at least, certainly does not imply third world. Having travelled extensively in Chil
35 Trex8 : if you are dripping in $$ you can go fly around in the Space Shuttle or a stealthy UAV if you desire. If you have an entourage with a security detail
36 Post contains images MD11junkie : Who are you to say they don't need it? Are you in some case an expert on chilean presidents? I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with y
37 Trex8 : while since my favorite ride is a 747, those things aren't designed for anyone over 5 feet tall, they are way too small and an ATR or Fokker prop is
38 Cubsrule : You appear to have defined "Southern Hemisphere" as Latin America and sub-Saharan Africa. The only 2 countries in those 2 regions with negative real
39 Post contains images EZEIZA : yeah, the difference of getting a bigger plane is what makes nations poor or not ... If the Chilenean AF feels it needs an aircraft that has a longer
40 RICARIZA : I agree that LatAm still have many (many) economical/social problems, but just because we don't operate the same way as the "developed" countries doe
41 Arcano : OK, let's stay cold for a while and make some comments: Facts: 1. We do have a 735, which was highly criticized when purchased in 97; some people thou
42 WhiteBirdFlyer : That does seem to add some light to the intellectual question, whether or not anyone inside Chile, as you rightly point out, is actively considering
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