Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
LAX-SFO Is This The Busiest Corridor In The World?  
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17504 times:

Anybody agree/disagree?

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17493 times:

Are we talking airport pairs or metropolitan area pairs?

Tokyo-Osaka
London-New York

Those are the first 2 that come to mind.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17449 times:

Yeah, none of the LA-area-to-SF-area airport-pairs is near the top, so you have to decide how many airports you're going to include.

And you have to decide whether you're counting flights or passengers.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17449 times:

If we're talking

SJC/OAK/SJC to BUR/LAX/ONT/SNA

Then I've got to think that is (by both number of flights and total seats) the far and away winner.

Even just SJC/OAK to LAX/BUR (fair by any measure) Southwest alone puts over 15,000 seats a day (total of both ways). Not to count AA and UA and SJC, OAK, and SFO.

but if someone wants to numbers I'd love to see tham.

Steve


User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17449 times:

The airspace from New York to Washington DC is extremely crowded during any given day.

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17432 times:

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 3):
If we're talking

SJC/OAK/SJC to BUR/LAX/ONT/SNA

Then I've got to think that is (by both number of flights and total seats) the far and away winner.

Count up the seats Tokyo-Sapporo.


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17367 times:

I believe that SF Bay - Greater LA (counting all airports) would be the busiest air corridor in the world. Does anyone have any hard figures, comparing to intra-Japan markets?

NYC-Washington is a huge market too, but when you factor in total travel time city-centre to city-centre, Amtrak and driving are both very competitive. That's simply not true of SF Bay - LA.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17367 times:

SJC/OAK/SJC to BUR/LAX/ONT/SNA[/quote]

Yes, all these airports combined. Whenever I fly this route, ATC usually changes our route twice, sometimes even three times due to traffic.


I have to imagine Washington to New York is just as busy...


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17308 times:

Not with scheduled flights it isn't.

Further problem: when you say "corridor" one could say the Washington-NY "corridor" includes NY-Philadelphia and Phila-Washington flights. After all, they're in that same "corridor".


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17298 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 7):
Whenever I fly this route, ATC usually changes our route twice, sometimes even three times due to traffic.

Got an example?


User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4389 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17280 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 8):


Further problem: when you say "corridor" one could say the Washington-NY "corridor" includes NY-Philadelphia and Phila-Washington flights. After all, they're in that same "corridor".

I think the thread starter means to only be applying this in terms of civil air travel.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3402 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17258 times:

There are so many things to consider this is a rather broad statement. Like mentioned already you have to decide whether you are just including LAX and SFO or area airports.

Also is it the busiest corridor with regards to what, aircraft movements or number of paxs. Because for the most part flts between the LAX area and SFO area are narrowbodies. I'm sure there are some Asian markets in which several 747's and 777's fly each day in a domestic configuration. meaning it would take 3 or 4 737's to equal the number of paxs of 1 747.

[Edited 2006-05-06 04:51:27]

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17258 times:

"I think the thread starter means to only be applying this in terms of civil air travel."

Commercial scheduled flights, you mean? Sure-- but lots of schedules fly along the "corridor" short of the endpoints. Should we include them?

[Edited 2006-05-06 04:46:31]

User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 894 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17214 times:

SYD/MEL is very busy as well.

A quick count of a typical Monday shows 31 QF flights (a mix of 744, 330's, 763's and 737's) offering approx 7240 seats. Virgin Blue have some 20 737's offering approx 3600 seats, thats a total of 51 flights and 10840 seats.

There are also a few international connector flights such a UA and TG as well as 4 JQ flights to Avalon near Melbourne.

For just QF and VB at an 80% load factor (a coomon figure for OZ domestic flights) that would be 8384 per day, 58688 per week or 3 051 776 per year, on some 18615 flights.

While these figures are by no means accurate, they would not be to far off. Not to bad for a metropolitan market pair of approx 8 million people, especially when a lot of people can drive between the cities in approx 10-12 hours, and do, plus a few train services each day.

RL


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17206 times:

Those counts are each way, right? Not total of both ways?

User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17182 times:

Hmm, probably the biggest "hot spot" for air traffic, (if you will) is the NE United States, inside this polygon:

BWI/DCA/IAD/PHL/EWR/LGA/JFK/BOS/MHT/PVD/BDL

California may have lots of traffic, but not as much as this.


User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 894 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17165 times:

Yes, each way.

So for the year approx 6.1 to 6.2 million for the city pair.

RL


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17126 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 5):
Count up the seats Tokyo-Sapporo.

count up the seats from Osaka, Tokyo, Fukuoka, Nagoya, Hiroshima to Sapporo...



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17119 times:

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 3):
If we're talking

SJC/OAK/SJC to BUR/LAX/ONT/SNA

You left out OAK-LGB as well.

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 15):
Hmm, probably the biggest "hot spot" for air traffic, (if you will) is the NE United States, inside this polygon:

BWI/DCA/IAD/PHL/EWR/LGA/JFK/BOS/MHT/PVD/BDL

California may have lots of traffic, but not as much as this.

Off the top of my head, here are some California routes (plus LAS) with many dailies:

LAX-SFO
LAX-OAK
LAX-SJC
LAX-SMF
LAX-OXR
LAX-SBA
LAX-FAT
LAX-BFL
LAX-IYK
LAX-SAN
LAX-PSP
LAX-SNA
LAX-SBP
LAX-SMX
LAX-LAS
LAX-ONT
SFO-SMF
SFO-RDD
SFO-CEC
SFO-ACV
SFO-BUR
SFO-PSP
SFO-FAT
SFO-MOD
SFO-LAS
SFO-ONT
SFO-SAN
SFO-SNA
SAN-OAK
SAN-SJC
SAN-SMF
SAN-LAS
OAK-LAS
OAK-BUR
OAK-LGB
OAK-SNA
SJC-LAS
SJC-SNA
SJC-SAN
SNA-SMF
SNA-LAS
SMF-LAS

There are more in there, but those are off the top of my head and all have at least 3 dailies. Also, if you added PHX in there (only 3-4 hours from the CA border) you would add more than 60 flights to multiple destinations



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9197 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17071 times:

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 15):
Hmm, probably the biggest "hot spot" for air traffic, (if you will) is the NE United States, inside this polygon:

BWI/DCA/IAD/PHL/EWR/LGA/JFK/BOS/MHT/PVD/BDL

California may have lots of traffic, but not as much as this.

Definitely, the Northeast airspace is insanely busy, especially between BOS, JFK-EWR-LGA, PHL, BWI, DCA-IAD... I-95 is jammed, Amtrak is jammed, the air is jammed... damn, everything up there is jammed...  crazy 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3402 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17047 times:

You just added a bunch of cities that only receive RJ service from LAX, LAX, SFO and SAN

These are rough estimates but i can't be off by that much
Consider:
JFK-BOS at least 10 flts
LGA-BOS at least 20-30 flts
EWR-BOS at least 20 flts
PHL-BOS at least 20-25 flts
DCA-BOS at least 15-20 flts
BWI-BOS at least 10 flts
IAD-BOS at least 10 flts
PHL-LGA at least 10 flts
DCA-LGA at least 20 flts
IAD-LGA at least 5-10 flts
BWI-LGA at least 5-10 flts
DCA-PHL at least 10 flts
BWI-PHL at least 5-10 flts
IAD-EWR at least 10 flts
IAD-JFK at least 5 flts
IAD-PHL at least 5 flts

That's an estimate of 190 flts a day just between those 8 cities now double that for return trips and thats about 400 flts a day.

That's just flts from DCA, IAD, BWI, PHL, EWR, LGA, JFK, and BOS
now add PVD, MHT, BDL, ISP, ALB, MDT, ABE


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17047 times:

OAK-ONT: 12
OAK-LAX: 23
OAK-BUR: 17
OAK-SNA: 10
SJC-ONT: 11
SJC-LAX: 15
SJC-BUR: 9
SJC-SNA: 7

104 flights (one way) * 137 seats = 14248 for Southwest alone.

UA

SFO-LAX: 19 mainline with various equipment (757, 733, A319)
SFO-BUR: 7 half 70 seats and 733's
SFO-SNA: 6 half RJ half mainline
SFO-ONT: 3 (2rj 1 mainline)
SJC-LAX: 6 RJ
OAK-LAX 6 1 mainline 5 RJ

I'm gonna call it 4200 seats for UA

AA:

SFO-LAX: 7 mainline
SJC-LAX: 6 RJ
SJC-SNA: 5 RJ

call it 1200 for AA

...and some other small change that I got bored.

So a good 20,000 seats each day, one way.

Steve


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17025 times:

That's for Los Angeles Area to San Francisco Area.

For single airport to single airport - Hong Kong - Taipei ranks top in seat counts - 40 flightsa day, all widebodies with the smallest ones being A333/A343.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16986 times:

77 flights per day from mainland Japan to Sapporo of which 43 are from Tokyo with NH/JL, not including other domestic carriers.

the mix of 744, 773, 763 used from Tokyo and Osaka is staggering, i don't think you could count the seats because accurate info on JL/NH domestic configs is hard to find...i know the 744D with NH is configured to something like 600+, the 773 is 500+ also. not sure of the JL configs but it would be similar...just from Tokyo alone it would be about 18000 seats per day.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineAlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16986 times:

What about NYC to Florida? That route is quite dense with widebody service such as AA's A300s.

25 Mah584jr : I remember reading somewhere that the NYC and PHL were among the top most delayed airports in the country.
26 QANTAS077 : not quite, the Tokyo-Sapporo route is far bigger due to the high capacity 747D and 773...smallest used is the 737 on the route but the 747 and 773 ar
27 Lindy : I can add BWI-ISP at least 14 flights a day just WN each way. IAD-BOS is at 15 each way. Plus flights from DCA, IAD and BWI to White Plains, Hardford
28 Usairways85 : You are correct, PHL is consistantly at the bottom of the on-time list. Many people blame the layout of PHL which to an extent is true. PHL is limite
29 N1120A : A bunch of them don't even get RJs, they get turboprops. The point was service frequency not seats. The California Corridor is busier than the Northe
30 Mah584jr : There are many different ways to look at this(pax, freq), but in terms of aircraft per square mile I can think of no corridor that is busier than NYC-
31 N1120A : That depends if you are talking commercial or general aviation and military aviation as well. If you are talking the latter, Los Angeles-San Diego li
32 Jupiter2 : Had a quick look at Tokyo to Sapporo, courtesy of one of the excellent Japanes spotters sites which has full timetables for both HND and NRT. Haneda t
33 JBLUA320 : I remember reading that EWR/LGA/JFK - MIA/FLL/PBI was the most populus O&D market in the world... JBLU
34 Usairways85 : You seem to be forgetting that within the Northeast lies two very busy Military airbases at Dover in Delaware and McGuire in New Jersey as well as an
35 N1120A : Dude, between Miramar, North Island, Pt. Mugu, Edwards, Victorville and March in the San Diego and Los Angeles metro areas alone, you have significan
36 BA : The busiest air route in the world is indeed Tokyo to Sapporo in Japan. More than 8 million passengers are handled annually. There are several article
37 Usairways85 : Well that settles the initial question with regard to number of paxs, which i assumed would be an Asian route simply because they are operated by so
38 Jacobin777 : add SFO-SNA : 5 RJ
39 Planeboy : What about MAD-BCN? It could be 3rd, if not first or second.
40 Ikramerica : There's also an AS flight, a 739 LAX-SFO once a day. Every little flight counts. And F9 will be starting 5 flights IIRC.
41 Levent : If I'm correct Iberia alone operates about 60 flights per day on the Madrid-Barcelona Puente Aereo (air bridge) and then there's other airlines on thi
42 Post contains links and images UpperDeck79 : Not THAT hard to find. Here are all the JAL seatmaps, including domestic (you can see the number of seats, too): http://www.jal.co.jp/5971/seatmap/se
43 Scbriml : While there are quite a few flights London-Amsterdam, apart from 1 763 (soon to be A332) the rest are all A32x & 73x or smaller. Same for London-Pari
44 MAH4546 : South Florida to New York City is busier than WAS to NYC, since the latter has trains. LA to the Bay Area is the highest traveled US dometic corridor
45 Post contains images TxAgKuwait : I thought I had posted this earlier, but it apparently did not. The Southern California area (LAX,BUR,ONT,LGB,SNA) to the Bay Area (SFO,OAK,SJC): The
46 N1120A : And that doesn't include SMF, which is often included as the outermost part of the Bay Area.
47 TxAgKuwait : I can run it to SMF & SAN if you like.
48 N1120A : Sure, if you feel like it
49 Dmt52 : IIRC according to the Cleveland ATC Center website, the airspace they monitor is the busiest in the world. They are rignt in the middle of New York an
50 AviationAddict : Amen to that one! I get to experience the full wrath of I-95 this coming Tuesday when I drive from DC up to Boston, not looking forward to that one!
51 Cancidas : i'd have to day that the busiest corridor is between BOS and DCA, including LGA...
52 Planesarecool : MAD to BCN is pretty busy as well. Last time i looked which was about 2 months ago, there was little short of 80 flights between the two on one day (i
53 Gilesdavies : I thought London to Dublin was one of the busiest routes in the world... There is over 50 flights a day in each direction, as far as I am aware: LHR 2
54 MalpensaSFO : BAY AREA to SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA OAK-BUR WN OAK-LGB B6 OAK-ONT WN OAK-SAN WN OAK-SNA WN SFO-BUR UA SFO-LAX AA, UA, AS, F9 SFO-ONT UA SFO-PSP AS/QX SFO-
55 Timz : It's one of the busiest international routes. By no criterion is it one of the busiest of all routes.
56 B752OS : I believe the daily o&d figures between BOS and NYC is somewhere around 4,000 people. If you added in the amount of people that use Amtrak, any of th
57 Planesarecool : In terms of seats, i would have thought one of the busiest international (if you can call it that?) routes would be Hong Kong to Shanghai or Taipei? H
58 Saturn5 : London-Dublin is indeed the busiest international corridor in the world connecting two cities (note: two cities not two airports) in two different co
59 MalpensaSFO : BAY AREA to LOS ANGELES AREA OAKLAND _____________ Burbank Southwest Airlines x 16 Long Beach Jet Blue x 5 Los Angeles Southwest Airlines x 22 United
60 MalpensaSFO : SACRAMENTO to LOS ANGELES AREA ____________________________________ Burbank Southwest Airlines x 10 Long Beach Jet Blue x 3 Los Angeles Southwest Airl
61 B741 : All the answers are pretty good. I think the person from Sweden had the more accurate answer. LA basin-Bay area I say has the most daily scheduled com
62 Juventus : [quote=B741,reply=61]All the answers are pretty good. I think the person from Sweden had the more accurate answer. LA basin-Bay area I say has the mos
63 Post contains images UnitedTristar : No Mainline...Two Ted and one OO CRJ -m
64 Post contains links Dc1030guy : I know there are a lot of different ways to measure this and to how exactly you define "corridor". Below are two documents which break out IFR traffic
65 VV701 : How wide is a 'corridor'? And is it passengers or flights? If the corridor is wide I suspect the North Atlantic wins in terms of both passengers and f
66 Timz : Maybe so, but don't forget to check CGH-SDU.
67 LipeGIG : And include GIG-CGH and GIG-GRU. Rio-São Paulo has more than 110 fligths per day (including AA, CO, UA, LA and some non-daily like BA and AV). Felip
68 Hardiwv : Rio de Janeiro-Sao Paulo is the world's 5th busiest air corridor with more than 110 daily flights. TAM operates the greatest number of flights on thi
69 Timz : CGH-SDQ may be the #1 airport-pair, by flight count-- which presumably is what VV701 was referring to.
70 SeaTran : When I was in the Air Force stationed in New Jersey, the air traffic controllers gave us a briefing on the local airspace one day. They told us that t
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Is This The World's Longest NS 727 Flight? posted Thu Jan 31 2002 06:13:28 by Mah4546
A Little Humor. (Is This The Right Forum For It?) posted Fri Sep 8 2006 13:39:39 by BlazingCessna
Is This The Only Business Class IFE? posted Thu Apr 6 2006 21:03:16 by RootsAir
Is This The "New" 787 Tail Or Not? posted Sat Mar 18 2006 07:39:09 by Northwest717
Is This The NW Aircraft Graveyard? posted Thu Mar 2 2006 01:21:17 by BMIFlyer
Is This The Golden Age Of Charter Travel? posted Sun Jan 8 2006 00:12:51 by CalAir
Is This The SQ Raffles I Couldn't Wait To Fly On:( posted Fri Oct 14 2005 09:07:37 by Gokmengs
Independence Air- Is This The BIG News? posted Mon Sep 26 2005 19:32:49 by FLYiCRJ
Is This The A380? posted Mon Jun 13 2005 00:18:04 by AkjetBlue
Is This The Last Generation Of Pilots? posted Mon Apr 11 2005 00:08:32 by NorCal