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Frontier On Titanic Watch List  
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 767 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13477 times:

Planebusiness.com has put Frontier on its Titanic Watch list (bankruptcy watch) saying that due to its weak RASM numbers, the airline needs to do something drastic, such as a merger, acquisition, new management etc...

Thoughts?

115 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13477 times:

Well that have not made a profit in quite sometime, so it is possible.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13462 times:
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You might want to see this thread for some insight.

Frontier - Survivng Southwest

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2756375/



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13430 times:

I have never heard of Planebusiness.com before, although that doesn't have to mean anything of course...

They have been ordering a couple of A320s lately so I guess the management themselves are not really that worried about the future, although (again) that doesn't have to mean anything of course...

RASM means something like Revenue Average Seat Mile right, so if that number is decreasing, I assume that means less yields? If they decreased it themselves (by lowering fares, to increase the number of seats sold) in a way that the revenue created by these extra chairs is bigger then the decrease in revenue of the other chairs, then it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

If its caused by increased competition (healthier UA, WN entering DEN),or higher costs, or when they don't sell any extra seats, but just the same number for a lower price, then they could be in trouble.

Would replacing the (so far) reasonable successful management team really put them back on track (IF they are off). I think a merger would be more appropriate, since they might be to small to continue operating like a hub and spoke LCC in today's environment.



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13381 times:

Sorry - I've been laying off Airbus recently (enough is enough) but I can't resist commenting on the perfect timing of this EADS press release:-

"Toulouse, 02 May 2006 - Frontier Airlines, of Denver, Colorado, has finalized a contract for six A320s, the first time the low-cost carrier has selected the aircraft type. The incremental order comes less than one year after Frontier converted to an all-Airbus operator. Also as part of the agreement, Frontier is converting four of its existing A319 orders to A320s, and four other previously ordered A319s to four A318s. Frontier will receive its ten A320 aircraft starting in early 2008 through 2010 and the A318 aircraft in 2007. In addition to these new Airbus orders, Frontier anticipates obtaining three additional A319 aircraft through arrangements with leasing companies."

http://www.eads.com/web/lang/en/1024...F00000000400004/6/03/31000036.html

[Edited 2006-05-06 17:20:33]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13367 times:

F9's revenue growth last year was something like 1 percent compared to US's 20 percent. I'm not sure routes like SFO-LAX are going to cut it.

Planebusiness.com is a subscriber site that is well respected.

I love Frontier, from my days of living in Denver. I wish them well.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13367 times:

I don't believe Frontier's demise is any thing to worry about. If the sky did fall, think of what a nice addition to the New USAir the company would make. Good people, good equipment, overall good hub (DEN).


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13324 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 6):
Good people, good equipment, overall good hub (DEN).

Wouldn't a third western hub be a bit much for US?



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13309 times:

Frontier's RASM rose in April compared to April the previus year, Yields rose over the same period, Load Factor rose (actually it's been a very long time since LF hasn't risen), they've played a very conservative game and are now confident enough to order a larger fleet type...why would they be going Titanic?

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9209 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13261 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 7):
Wouldn't a third western hub be a bit much for US?

Maybe a focus city... They have a hub in PHX and a focus city in LAS. How many flights does F9 operate out of DEN?

Yeah, with the fall-out of F9 (which I DO NOT want to see...) US would get A319/A318 aircraft which would build up their fleet quite a bit. I was about to say that they could start to phase out their 733 and 734s but that is not necessary for them at this point I don't think...

I don't see US being the only beneficiary of such a thing though... What about UA? I was about to say B6 but they're downsizing their fleet last time I checked. That, and they don't fly A319s... UA I believe has A319s though.

Coming back to the US hub/focus city and the fact that UA has a considerable hub there, would US want another large operation where another star alliance carrier already has a hub?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13007 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 7):
Wouldn't a third western hub be a bit much for US?

Yeah, I think it would. That's why I think I said overall. It would give US a greater presence than now, but I imagine a hub would be hard to justify.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12935 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 6):
If the sky did fall, think of what a nice addition to the New USAir the company would make. Good people, good equipment, overall good hub (DEN).

It's hard enough to integrate two fleets, two sets of equipment, two technology systems, two groups of employees, two route networks, etc without adding an additional set. It's safe to say US Airways would have no interest whatsoever in aquring Frontier, or any other carrier.

AAndrew


User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12874 times:

Planebusiness.com used to be the place to get the dirt on all the airlines.
The message boards were pretty good too, but about 5-6 years ago,
they made it a subscription service. I don't know anyone that
has a subscription, so I don't know if it's any good or not.


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12847 times:

I used to read Holly's site before it went subscription, and even had a subscription for a little while. To paraphrase the joke about economists, she's correctly predicted 10 of the last 1 airline failures...

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 9):
Coming back to the US hub/focus city and the fact that UA has a considerable hub there, would US want another large operation where another star alliance carrier already has a hub?

Well, I don't see a F9-US merger in the cards, but if there was, it'd be a sure sign that US is looking forward and seeing that UA may want them out of Star in the long run...


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12847 times:

Just because an airline orders planes in bad times doesn't mean anything. NW converted its options for A330's in BK. Of course companies are going to plan for the fact that they will make it out just fine. It doesnt mean anything that they ordered or converted planes, or even taken delivery of them. Just because your not doing well doesnt mean you are going to stop taking planes and such. NW is still taking all of theirs on-time for example.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12786 times:

Oh man. How in the hell can someone compare F9 to the Titanic?

F9 has very little debt and loans. If F9 wanted to borrow, they have enough of a good credit rating to do so.

How many payments has F9 faulted on? How many vendors are requesting cash for service?

Was US put on the "Titanic" list? NW, DL, UA, B6, and TZ?

And one other thing..... It sure is hard to hit an iceberg at 35,000 feet.

Mariner!!! Give us some insight!  Smile

[Edited 2006-05-06 21:18:20]


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26495 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12727 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 6):
If the sky did fall, think of what a nice addition to the New USAir the company would make. Good people, good equipment, overall good hub (DEN).

And a quick exit from the Star Alliance

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 9):
What about UA? I was about to say B6 but they're downsizing their fleet last time I checked. That, and they don't fly A319s... UA I believe has A319s though.

United flies A319s and A320s but they use IAE V2500 engines, not CFM56 like F9. Also, they are in no position to buy anyone.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12699 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 6):
I don't believe Frontier's demise is any thing to worry about. If the sky did fall, think of what a nice addition to the New USAir the company would make.

Too much too soon for US, the fit is with Jetblue, it gives them the badly needed west coast ops.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12599 times:
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Quoting Seatback (Reply 5):
F9's revenue growth last year was something like 1 percent compared to US's 20 percent. I'm not sure routes like SFO-LAX are going to cut it.

Hmmmm? Yes, US Airways April RASM was up over 35%. Continental's was about 11%.

Frontier reprted a RASM increase of over 6%. A number of analysts are cheering this, because it is up at all, in spite of Southwest:

http://today.reuters.com/investing/f...IRLINES-FRONTIERAIRLINES-STOCK.xml

http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom....6721528704-872417075&alias=/ht/nw

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 17):
the fit is with Jetblue, it gives them the badly needed west coast ops.

Oh, please - I really don't want to see Frontier sacrificed to the ego of David Neeleman.

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2006-05-06 22:17:06]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineL1329II From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12511 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
Oh, please - I really don't want to see Frontier sacrificed to the ego of David Neeleman.

Oh come on hes not that bad... but I get your point. I doubt that will happen. Does B6 want the hassle of unions? Doesnt F9 have an FA union? What will they be willing to bear?

Also do they have the capital to do so? And with B6's losses this year it wouldnt make sense for anyone to invest in the aquisition or not make sense for B6 to get themselves involved with this if they have issues of thier own!

Although, unions aside, this would be a perfect matchup.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25260 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12471 times:
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Quoting L1329II (Reply 19):
Oh come on hes not that bad...

To start an airline? I think he is great, I'd want him on my team, he is a media darling.

To run an airline on an ongoing basis? I have a different opinion.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePSA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12313 times:

If Frontier were to merge, or be acquired by anybody, my money
would go to AirTran, even though they operate different fleets.

AirTran has experience going up against a goliath (DL in ATL), so
that would help them with UA in DEN. It also gives them a
much needed presence in the western states.

As for US...they already code-share with UA out of DEN and their
LAS and PHX hubs can basically cover the same region.

Or F9 can just shutter-up like Independence Air, but I still think that
is still a long ways off from now.



fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12238 times:

Frontier in trouble?

How bout a purchase by Southwest, run as a completely seperate entity?

Southwest could then get all the lovely A-concourse gates at DEN. All the Airbii could be moved to DFW and create a nice new little hub in the D and E concourses - eventually complete with a broadened Mexico schedule.. say, to CUN, CZM, MEX, BJX, GDL, MTY, SJD, MZT, PVR for starters (assuming there's availability in the 'slot'-controlled routes).. maybe even throw in a few Central America or Caribbean routes.

Eventually, the Airbii could be expanded to international flights from HOU, SAT, ELP, ABQ, and PHX.. effectively working as the south-of-the-border arm of WN..

Such a combination would:

* 'Take out' F9 as Boyd prognosticates without actually destroying the revenue F9 brings in

* Put the hurt on UA and AA simultaneously

* Give RapidRewards members access to international markets

* Compete with CO in US-Mexico markets

* Put the costly Wright fight on hold for the time being

* Keep DFW's E-gates out of someone else's hands (sure, no one wants them now, but that'll change)

* Shield the WN route system from the complications of international flying


I think the only downside would be consumer confusion with seat assignments and boarding a WN/F9 plane at DFW with different amenities than a WN 737. But, how long is it before WN has assigned seating anyway?

[Edited 2006-05-07 00:17:43]

User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12087 times:

Quoting L1329II (Reply 19):
Although, unions aside, this would be a perfect matchup

JetBlue has to face Union Labor sooner or later, they all do.

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 21):
If Frontier were to merge, or be acquired by anybody, my money
would go to AirTran, even though they operate different fleets.

Too different for the intelligence of Airtran management to consider for even a second. Airtran/Alaska, fleet and routes work

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 22):
think the only downside would be consumer confusion with seat assignments and boarding a WN/F9 plane at DFW with different amenities than a WN 737. But, how long is it before WN has assigned seating anyway?

The downside is thinking there's any part of this idea that works. WN may go forever without assigned seating. They study it closely, so far, they haven't felt the need. It's quicker to turn the plane without it. Remember, what isn't broke doesn't need a friggin fix.

Don't laugh, in 2002 I predicted the US/HP merger, long before even Doug Parker. Routes/Fleets and weaknesses strengthened through merger. Look it over. The success of the US merger is proving a new round of consolidations is coming soon, stay tuned.


User currently offlineL1329II From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11623 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
To start an airline? I think he is great, I'd want him on my team, he is a media darling.

To run an airline on an ongoing basis? I have a different opinion.

I absolutely agree. Time to rip him out of the right seat. Maybe he needs to do something like Bill Gates and "step aside as CEO thing..." and let someone else "run" the company.


25 Flashmeister : As much as I hate to say it (being a F9 shareholder), I sort of see where Holly is coming from with her prediction. I'm a PlaneBusiness subscriber, an
26 Post contains images Mariner : It's a valid opinion. But it is a very minor route. I doubt the airline stands or falls by that one route. I hope not. And, as I understand it, South
27 Brokenrecord : I've never thought about an F9-US merger before, but now that I do, I could some positive things about that. 1. Fleet commonality 2. The DEN hub could
28 Post contains images Flashmeister : Mariner- I never said that I agreed with all of her points, just laying them out for those who can't see the article. I do feel, however, that Frontie
29 Mariner : To suggest it is an iffy investment right now is absolutely okay. Several other - better - analysts have done it, why not she? The J P Morgan analyst
30 WesternA318 : Of course not, but then again, it would be better than a Don Burr perhaps?
31 TWAAF9 : I used to follow the forum on planebusiness, but haven't since they switched to the pay format. At any rate, what is Holly's track record? I haven't r
32 Steeler83 : And US also uses the CFM56 like F9 as well, and given the case with UA, I guess US would be the only beneficiary from a F9 fallout... But, I do have
33 JetCaptain : Around a week before Southwest announced they were moving into DEN, she recommended Frontier stock as one of her top picks. JC
34 Wjcandee : She has a great track record at being a shill for the views of the major carriers who kiss up to her. She purports to be an analyst, but I personally
35 We're Nuts : Since when does US keep the companies it buys? Besides, a DEN hub would be far too convenient.
36 Gregtx : They are trying to restructure their payment schedules for leased aircraft directly with the foreign banks to reduce costs and cycle payments more eve
37 We're Nuts : If you are willing to put money where your mouth is, I'd be happy to make a bet that there is nothing "suicidal" about Southwest's growth.
38 F9Animal : Wow, she is not a very faithful frequent flyer of Frontier obviously. I begin to wonder if she has ever flown on F9? I bet she would change her thoug
39 Post contains images GentFromAlaska : Frontier as long as I've been monitoring them (1996) has always been the little engine that could. Every once in a while they hit a pocket of turbulen
40 Post contains images Steeler83 : I wasn't saying that WN's growth is suicidal for "WN..." It would be, however, for F9, a much smaller airline that doesn't have the financial backgro
41 Antoniemey : Would be nice... except for the lack of baggage claim office space and the fact that the only available gates that are actually together and usable a
42 Post contains images We're Nuts : Thank you for clearing that up.
43 King : Would WN be saying "iceberg, right ahead" if they were paying current fuel prices? I wish I could see what's going to happen a few years from now when
44 We're Nuts : No, they would not. Don't be ridiculous. Even at current prices WN would be profitable. WN is a living, breathing company that adapts to market force
45 King : Not being ridiculous. Just been reading other threads. Quote "I wish you were correct, but in WN's 1Q results announced April 20, the company reported
46 Mariner : Why be rude? It is a perfectly valid question. There is considerable debate as to whether or not Southwest would be profitable absent the fuel hedges
47 Flashmeister : She has a great track record at being a shill for the views of the major carriers who kiss up to her. I somehwat agree... although in the interest of
48 Mariner : She has flown on Frontier a number of times. However, there is a history with the airline. She has profound respect for Sam Addoms, the Founder/CEO,
49 Flashmeister : However, there is a history with the airline. Yeah, I remember that -- something to do with Elise Eberwein, currently at US Airways and part of the Am
50 We're Nuts : That "numbers game" is, indeed, ridiculous. WN adapts to the world it lives in. They are wrong.
51 Mariner : Gosh. If you haven't read them, how do you know they are wrong? Is Flashmeister (in this thread) wrong: And in any case, there is no need to be rude,
52 Post contains images Steeler83 : No problem
53 LTBEWR : Perhaps she thinks WN will be taking over the LCC business originating at DEN at the expense of F9, although F9 has a very different style of business
54 TWAAF9 : I can't speak specifically for BNA, some (most) F9 outstations don't have separate baggage service offices (thus, using their ticket counter) simply
55 Positiverate : Ah good ol' Holly...rarely right, never in doubt.
56 Alphascan : Flash; No intention to kill the messenger. Just responding to Ms. Hegeman's assertions. If F9 were to sell seats with systemwide average LF at nothing
57 Atmx2000 : Their expectations on net fuel costs no doubt affects their pricing. Since Southwest has pricing power, they could increase prices to offset the effe
58 WN57787 : wn has no service to DFW excpt Code-share with TZ
59 Flashmeister : Since Southwest has pricing power, they could increase prices to offset the effect of rising fuel prices. They have pricing power, do they? Perhaps so
60 A330323X : Both US Airways and America West have fully repaid their ATSB loans.
61 Post contains links and images Mariner : Yes, it is. But let's keep a little perspective. In the space of a few months, Frontier had to cope with the (temporary) loss of a major portion (9%)
62 Alphascan : I stand corrected. Technically. I should have worded that statement better. The US and HP government backed loans were refinanced last fall at a prem
63 Post contains links and images A330323X : Yes. Way back on October 19. But I'm not sure what you mean by "at a premium"--the terms of the loans remained identical for US/HP; it was the govern
64 MaverickM11 : This was for ski packages and the ski season is obviously over. The weekly OAK trip stays in the schedule through the summer. Moreover in the first m
65 Post contains images Mariner : So - you are saying there is no summer vacation traffic from Denver to San Diego? Interesting position. Gee, I would hope so, for all the fuss and bo
66 MaverickM11 : Not when it's Saturday only service. You know of any routes operated once a week between domestic top twenty destinations that are run away successes
67 Mariner : I am confused. When did I mention "runaway success"? If there is enough ski traffic from SAN to DEN to operate Saturday only, I am mildly surprised t
68 Post contains images We're Nuts : 451, actually.
69 Post contains images Mariner : There you go. Almost exactly ten times the number. mariner
70 Alphascan : Mav; Where did you find this data? Links?
71 Post contains links MaverickM11 : You and another were trying to imply that by pulling a once weekly DEN/SAN service, WN had perhaps "failed" on DEN/SAN, when at the *very* least you
72 F9Animal : Did Holly fail to get on a lifeboat? Or did she get smacked in the head with an iceberg?[Edited 2006-05-09 06:27:00]
73 Mariner : I don't expect Southwest to "fail" anywhere. A statement of fact does not imply failure. or success. However, I still find the pulling of DEN-SAN cur
74 MaverickM11 : 'Cuz it is. Legacy carriers generally have a MUCH higher system load factor (like 80s) than LCCs, including WN. WN has a very low (like in the 60s) a
75 Post contains links Mariner : The load factor for all of 2005 was above 70%. http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.html I can only repeat what I said earlier. When yo
76 MaverickM11 : Ted just replaced existing UA flying with the exception of FLL in the beginning. And again, it's a legacy carrier, highly hubbed, leisure destination
77 Malpensasfo : If only the rumors of a B6/F9 tieup were true..
78 Post contains links Flashmeister : The point is that I am not exactly clear what you want Frontier to do. They can make some great expansive move, as JetBlue did, but look at what has h
79 Mariner : Yes, but if they are ever to have any significant west coast presence, it is a route they have to have. In that same interview, Mr. Potter talks abou
80 MaverickM11 : This is immaterial. If you booked a flight to LAS from DEN you'd end up on Ted no matter whether you booked it through ual.com, or travelocity, or te
81 Rdwelch : Hush your mouth!
82 Mariner : So if you booked a connecting flight on Southwest they would avoid routing you through DEN? I suspect - only suspect, no evidence - the reverse might
83 Post contains images MaverickM11 : But you still manage to argue with it Yes.
84 Mariner : Oh, I'm sorry - I thought it was a discussion, not an argument. I guess I should have known better. mariner[Edited 2006-05-09 21:46:54]
85 ScottB : Well, not exactly... Pulling an old cached version of her "Titanic Watch" list from Google, which probably dated from back in 2001, the airlines on t
86 Alphascan : Scott; Thanks for your input. A couple of clarifications: I included LF in my statement. The subject was new routes. Not ASMs. A great deal of F9's AS
87 F9Animal : Is WN supposed to be the bully of the industry? Come on now. An airline with 40+ aircraft has the heart and soul of an airline with 499 aircraft! GO F
88 F9fan : While WN may have better load factors, F9 had more passengers than any airline on the DEN-MDW route, with UA having more passengers on the DEN-PHX an
89 Goingboeing : Don't forget that F9 was having to compete, which I'll include "bill paying" as a part of competition, with an airline that spent 3 years deferring p
90 Mariner : I don't know anyone who is assuming that. mariner
91 Goingboeing : Basically, anyone who says that "Without the hedges, Southwest would have lost money". That is true only if their passenger load and income remained
92 SpazolaJBLULGB : Way before the US/HP cluster,my brother in law who is a Captain for F9 said word on the street is B6 is going to merge with F9!!!! Hey, if TWO BADD AI
93 MaverickM11 : You're assuming that WN has the pricing power to raise or lower industry wide fares by itself. WN would still be competing with everyone else, includ
94 Luv2fly : And George Bush said the conflict was over! Who are you going to believe!
95 Goingboeing : Hmmm...if that's your argument, then you're going to have to allow some hedging by Southwest in the equation. And while the bankrupt legacies have do
96 Steeler83 : CAK is also an hour and a half-2 hours from PIT as well; I guess F9 will overlook PIT and maybe add frequencies to CAK if/when they consider expansio
97 Luv2fly : CAK is a viable alternative to PIT, especially for those who are seeking a lower fare and are willing to drive to get it.
98 Flashmeister : Quite frankly? Yes. I don't like it any more than you do, but the legacies have learned from US, UA, and now DL and NW, that a trip through Chapter 1
99 Steeler83 : Yeah, and there were people from the Pittsburgh area who actually drove to CLE for WN flights before they even anounced PIT service... The Allegheny
100 Antoniemey : And why would you want to ruin two good airlines that way? That's as ridiculous an idea as having CO merge with DL or NW or UA.
101 ScottB : Uhhhh, but what's your point? I would certainly imagine that Frontier has quite a few passengers making connections beyond DEN from its MDW-DEN fligh
102 Flashmeister : Passenger connections, perhaps, but baggage and cargo connections wouldn't be pretty between A and C. Add to that the not-frequent but not-unheard-of
103 Post contains links and images Mariner : Flashmeister: If you're out there and read this, you should listen to the Bear Stearns conference - it's available on the website: http://www.frontier
104 L1329II : I cant listen to this at work but can you elaborate?
105 Post contains images Mariner : I don't know who the JetBlue guy is - I assume the CFO? - and I am off to a medical appointment and don't have time to check. Basically, in the Q&A b
106 ScottB : Well, probably not ideal for connecting baggage, but certainly not unworkable. I'm still baffled by the fact that there's no corridor alongside the t
107 Alphascan : Well I made a couple of errors in my original calculations. I used nautical miles and neglected to subtract the excise tax. Thanks for the lesson. F9
108 Post contains images Flashmeister : I see your point, and previously I would have agreed 100% with you, but I've been seeing it a little bit differently lately. Airlines pay rent and la
109 ScottB : Well, I don't think that the City has asked Frontier to actually front money (I could be mistaken); rather, I believe the City has asked Frontier to
110 Mariner : DIA says they cannot do this - that their charter demands otherwise. That they must have commitments before they can issue the bonds to pay for const
111 EA CO AS : It's worth noting, though, that at an 81% systemwide LF you have very little surplus capacity available with which to raise cash by discounting if yo
112 Alphascan : Your point is valid for carriers such as UA, NW and US that are shedding capacity or have stagnant growth. However, both B6 and F9 are growing and ad
113 DCAYOW : A note on the SAN-DEN discussion. This flight was never a permanent addition to the schedule. Southwest has a habit of testing markets when they have
114 TWAAF9 : I didn't want to start a completely new topic for this, but for those interested, F9 at DAY will retain one Airbus flight after the August 20 schedule
115 Mariner : I am sure Frontier is aware of this. It is a little while to do when Southwest has just added a bunch of capacity at your hub and is decimating yield
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