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Flight Degress From Colleges. Are They Worth It?  
User currently offlineBWOOD From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 32 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8664 times:

I want to know what everybody thinks about this idea. I am going to Saint Louis University's Parks College in the fall. My major is going to be aviation science. I will leave the school with my private, commercial, insturment and multi engine ratings. Also I will get my CFI and CFII. I figure that I can get hired on as an instructor or work for a regional airline after I get out of school and build up time so that I can eventually get a job with a major airline. I want to know first off if anyone who is a graduate of Parks can give me their opinion on the experience. I also want to know what people have heard about Parks College good or bad.

I also want to know if in general people who graduate from public or private univesities that are not totally aviation oriented are getting hired and respected by the aviation community.

I know that Embry-Riddle is the Harvard of flight schools and that those students I am sure get hired but what about the other schools. University of North Dakota, Central Missouri State and other smaller and less know schools all have graduates who want to be professional pilots. How do these graduates fair in the process of getting a good job and keeping it.

I am refering to the pilot degress and not the mechanics or air traffic control jobs. Please give me your opinions and be honest. Even if I might not want to hear it I am looking for all kinds of input on this idea.

I know that in aviation the experince is what matters and not the degree but is it a good idea to go to a lesser known aviation program that is not the main focus of the college and is that a good way to start. You have to get the experience from somewhere so why not an accredited flight school even if it is not Embry-Riddle and is Arizona State instead. (No offense to ASU grads just an example). How does it compare to just going through an instructor and getting everything up to your ATP. Do airlines smile or frown on these lesser known schools of flight and do these people get hired?

Your help with this topic is greatly appreciated!

102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8620 times:

Quoting BWOOD (Thread starter):
I also want to know if in general people who graduate from public or private univesities that are not totally aviation oriented are getting hired and respected by the aviation community.

Last year, I graduated from UCLA with a bachelor of science in mechanical engineering. I just got hired by a regional carrier.

Am I respected by the aviation community? I hope so!

Did I get hired? Yes.

After college, I went to ATP flight school and got all my ratings and then instructed for them. It all worked out very well and if I had to do it again, I wouldn't change a thing. I wanted a well-rounded college experience with rigorous academics and many social opportunities. However, I also wanted to be a pilot. So, I took full advantage of my amazing college experience and then learned to fly afterwards.

My attitude? I can learn to fly at any point in my life. But my college experience can only be completely embraced at a specific age and time. While in college, I participated in organizations and activities that I could not experience post-graduation. Conversely, aviation and flying will be available for an extended period of time. That's my approach but it may not work for others. Good luck!


User currently offlineAv8rPHX From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 713 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8614 times:

Get your degree in basket weaving if you have to, but do not get an aviation degree... you'll want something to fall back on after your first furlough.

User currently offlineBwood From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8518 times:

Come on guys. Let me know what you think. I also am not refering to engineering degrees but thanks Modesto2 for your post. I have also heard of someone getting their engineering degree and flying for the airlines. I know that this forum can talk so lets hear what everybody thinks.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8509 times:

Quoting Av8rPHX (Reply 2):
Get your degree in basket weaving if you have to, but do not get an aviation degree... you'll want something to fall back on after your first furlough.

I hear that basket weaving isn't going to get you many places either.....

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9701 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8504 times:

Quoting Bwood (Reply 3):
I also am not refering to engineering degrees but thanks Modesto2 for your post. I have also heard of someone getting their engineering degree and flying for the airlines.

I know you are not referring to engineering degrees, but they are a good decision if you want to be a pilot. Getting a degree in mechanical or aeronautical engineering will require you to work hard in college, but it is an impressive thing to have on a resume. Additionally you have a career that pays well to fall back on. Getting a job as a pilot is mostly about how many hours you have, but a good education will not hurt you at all. And when I say good education, I suggest getting a major rather than just a minor in another field. It can pay off in the end. Also if you get a degree in something like mechanical engineering, you can get a job out of college to pay off your debt while simutaneously working on your flight training. It will help your cash flow work out a lot better since so many pilots get deeply in debt during their initial flight training and college that they struggle to get out with today's low salaries.

In summary, don't rule out a major like engineering if it interests you. However the most important thing you do in life is enjoy it. If you like figuring out how all the different systems involved in planes and the world around you function, then an engineering degree is good, but if not, then don't wast your time with it. No one can tell you what to do, but they can and always will offer advice.

[Edited 2006-05-08 21:21:48]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8494 times:

Quoting Av8rPHX (Reply 2):
Get your degree in basket weaving if you have to, but do not get an aviation degree... you'll want something to fall back on after your first furlough.

True, my mistake, I cannot fallback with my Aviation Management Degree and
sometimes it makes me look like the idiot at the airport. Many airport workers even make fun of my degree and ask stupid questions like "why are you still here? why are you working at the airport? should you be doing something better? Why are you not my manager? Why are you not the boss? Why do you still touch a bag?"

It makes me upset once in a while, but it was not a ticket out.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8480 times:

As I get to the end of my time at the University of North Dakota (commercial aviation/aviation management double major), I don't think I would change a thing. I take Modesto2's attitude of "I only have one chance at having a good time in college" as "Sweet, I can fly planes for class and get a degree (or 2) doing it." Is there anything wrong with going someplace else and getting a degree in, say, Biology or Engineering or Music and then getting flight training? No, of course not. That said, if I am going to school for 4 years and spending as much as it is to get a college education, I want to be doing something in class that interests me. Engineering or Biology classes aren't what I am passionate about. International and Long Range Navigation or Airline Management or Flight Physiology classes are what interest me, and I get to go to class and learn about that stuff. In addition, I can be a much more informed professional pilot with the knowledge that I get from that stuff. Can you read a book and get a good idea about hypoxia? Of course. I get what I consider to be much better training(making me a safer pilot) from an ex-NASA Aeromedical Physician, in class and through altitude chamber 'flights' that are mandatory for the completion of the class.

So do what you want, and go to school for what you want. If you are really motivated to learn engineering, then go to engineering school and get your flight training after you graduate. If aviation is really what interests you, I can't imagine what would be a more rewarding college experience than going to school where you can fly airplanes for class and in a town where you are more apt to hear people discussing ILS minimums than American Idol in the checkout line at the grocery store.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8443 times:

Quoting BWOOD (Thread starter):
I want to know first off if anyone who is a graduate of Parks can give me their opinion on the experience. I also want to know what people have heard about Parks College good or bad.

Congratulations! I'm graduating on the 20th and I don't want to leave. Overall, I've had a good experience. Although, I have worked very hard to take full advantage of every opportunity I've been offered.

Stick with the flying, be prepared to work HARD, don't slack off, and you will do fine. Students who get in trouble here are the ones who aren't willing to put in the required time into flying.

If you won't, don't worry, the school is still open over the summer.  Smile

My advice, do the Aviation Science AND double major in something like finance, accounting, engineering (if you really want to), anything really, just something tangible that can lead to other jobs.

You are lucky, Saint Louis University has over 80 majors to choose from.

That way you can still do all the Av Sci internships that lead to jobs (VERY important) and you will have something substantial to fall back on. The Av Sci degree does give you some good education into aviation and how to be a safe pilot.

As for name, I haven't heard anyone not liking our grads. That's not something I can say about other schools.

However, most people know us as Parks College not Saint Louis University, so make sure that's on the resume.

PM if you have anything specific you want to know, I'd be more than happy to help you out.

Quoting BWOOD (Thread starter):
I know that Embry-Riddle is the Harvard of flight schools

I kinda want to laugh at that one....flame away, but I've heard some, lets say interesting things from Riddle grads.

However, to be be fair, one of the best pilots I know graduated from there as well.

Quoting Meister808 (Reply 7):
So do what you want, and go to school for what you want.

Very well said! I agree wholeheartedly. Enjoy and take advantage of your college years. Don't study something because its the "right" thing to study or will "get you a job." More than likely, you will hate that job when you get it and will be looking for something else to do the moment you start.

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 6):
I cannot fallback with my Aviation Management Degree

Could you please explain this further? Yes, on face value its not worth much, but aviation like anything else is about who you know not what you know.

My advice, use the "management" end of the degree and get an MBA, thats really the only reason I did it. The only thing I need now is a chance and the time to get one (once I graduate). Then you will have a "real" degree as some here might think.

GreatChecko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8443 times:

Double Post - Ignore Me

[Edited 2006-05-08 22:10:32]


"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineDb373 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8400 times:

I was offered a full scholarship into ERAU, but was forced to turn them down after finding out that the only way to pursue a dual major would be to attend both ERAU and a junior college in the area.

After speaking with many pilots, I have been informed that this was the right decision. ERAU is awesome if you want to fly, but from a career standpoint it will do nothing for you if you can't find a job in the aviation world.

I still keep in touch with an advisor at the college, however. He has informed me that as long as I keep my grades up, I'd be a shoe in for the distance learning program or the fast-track program that they offer. These are my plans for the future.



Keep Delta My Delta
User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8385 times:

Well said Meister808. I'm happy with my decision to get an aviation degree as well. I came to UND to become a pilot but I found out its not the career I wanted. At the same time, however, I feel in love with Air Traffic Control and now I'm extremely happy with my new major in ATC.

I love learning about aviation in my classes. Its easy to motivate yourself when you're interested in the subject and you know you will use the information after you graduate. If you've got another subject area that you love, go for a degree in that subject.

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineBwood From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8345 times:

Hey TheGreatChecko thanks for the advice and input. I have heard mixed things about Parks so its good to hear from a soon to be graduate who loved the program. I think that the problem with Parks is that some of the students pick av science because it is interesting but don't know the whole story of the aviation world and how it works. This can be intimidating when you find out. For example hearing about all of the pilots that have been laid off and stuggling airlines. Also flying is not for everyone and some people get tired of it. This can make people bitter if they end up with something that they did not expect.

I love aviation and want to make a career out of it. I have been around the airlines for a while since my dad worked for TWA/AA here in St. Louis as a mechanic for seven years. I wish TWA was still around so I could have a solid airline job in town but o'well. He got laidoff so I know what the industry is like but there is always going to be a need for pilots. I know off two recent Parks grads who are working for regional carriers and so it is obvious that the jobs are out there.

I am transfering in from a community college so I will be there three years and won't do the practicum program to avoid a fourth. It is really expensive but my dad has a plane so I know why they charge what they do. I am not interested in the engineering as a major but if I could do another major I would not rule out business or something that ties into the av science degree. TheGreatChecko I would like to know more about the program from a current student so any more info or advice you could give would be awesome.


Thanks to all who posted and keep the comments coming.


User currently offlineMikkel777 From Norway, joined Oct 2002, 370 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8336 times:

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 8):
Quoting BWOOD (Thread starter):
I know that Embry-Riddle is the Harvard of flight schools

I kinda want to laugh at that one....flame away, but I've heard some, lets say interesting things from Riddle grads.

I'd stay far away from ERAU. It is by far the most overrated university institution I've ever come across. I've seen so many stupid things done by students and instructors there, it actually maked me worried.

Get a degree in something that you like, and take flight training at a place that gives you a lot more for your money than ERAU.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8314 times:

Quoting Bwood (Reply 12):
I love aviation and want to make a career out of it.

Then do an aviation degree.

Quoting Av8rPHX (Reply 2):
but do not get an aviation degree... you'll want something to fall back on after your first furlough.

Well, how many of you with degrees actually do work related to the subject?
You can fall back on an aviation management degree just as easy as you can become a pilot with a biology degree.

I'm working with people that did a degree just for the heck of it ... nothing personal, but I'd rather have an aviation degree that I worked hard for and enjoyed, rather than a psychology degree that I'd never use if I lived to be 200 years old....and had no intention of using.

I say do a degree with a subject that you enjoy, and will study, and will interest you.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineBwood From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8248 times:

I guess my biggest concern is the cost of the degree. It is going to take over $50,000 in loans to pay off my schooling. I know that jobs in aviation are limited and it takes a few years to make good money when you find a job. Do you think that its worth spending that kind of money given the situation with the industry? Can I pay it back on a first officer or part time instuctor pay scale?

That is what worries me the most, the financial side of it. I also have heard that Parks has lost its reputation in the airline business due to restructuring of the program and cuts in the degrees offered by the school. I know that Saint Louis University's name is attached but will I be respected. I guess I should not be any worse off than someone with a non-aviation degree and their ratings. Despite the money and industry issues I would have a degree in the field that I want to study, and that is the best way to go I think.


User currently offlineVisakow From United States of America, joined May 2006, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8240 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 14):
Well, how many of you with degrees actually do work related to the subject?
You can fall back on an aviation management degree just as easy as you can become a pilot with a biology degree.

I'm working with people that did a degree just for the heck of it ... nothing personal, but I'd rather have an aviation degree that I worked hard for and enjoyed, rather than a psychology degree that I'd never use if I lived to be 200 years old....and had no intention of using.

I say do a degree with a subject that you enjoy, and will study, and will
interest you.

.

I have to agree with this one. Granted I will also have a ton of avionics experience and could just as readily work for a major defense contractor/sub-contracter like Lockmart, Boeing or Raytheon if I decide not to go the airline route.


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8224 times:

Quoting Bwood (Reply 15):
Do you think that its worth spending that kind of money given the situation with the industry?

Its either that or the Air Force. One way or another you will pay with money or time.

Quoting Bwood (Reply 15):
Can I pay it back on a first officer or part time instuctor pay scale?

Not entirely, but you wouldn't be the first person to have to do it.

GreatChecko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineEssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8211 times:

Any degree with "Aviation" in the name is fairly worthless...Why?

-From an academic standpoint, it doesn't provide any advantage in pilot hiring, as anyone will tell you that any 4 year degree is sufficient.

-A "BS in Aviation Science" from the typical aviation school has about as much science to it as a home economics or communication degree, so it's not a technical degree in terms of how ExxonMobil, WalMart or Citibank would view it.

-The typically strong aviation schools do have a good informal network within most airlines, so that helps, but when the furloughs come...you will be cashing people out at Home Depot with that degree.

-Dont consider the military unless you are willing to serve and be an officer first, and a pilot (maybe...) second.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3746 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8180 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 14):

I'm working with people that did a degree just for the heck of it ... nothing personal, but I'd rather have an aviation degree that I worked hard for and enjoyed, rather than a psychology degree that I'd never use if I lived to be 200 years old....and had no intention of using.

You're comparing two rather worthless degrees though, psychology and aviation science. Kind of a meaningless comparison.

I recommend a degree in something that actually has a future, business possibly, or engineering, though that may be a pain in the ass with flight training as well.

Look at it this way, say you get an aviation science degree.....

You make it out into the regionals, maybe to a major and the economy takes a dump and you lose your job. Just as in 2001 and 2002, no major airlines are hiring and the economy is in a recession. Now, do you really want a piece of paper that says you're only qualified to fly airplanes, or do you want a piece of paper that has you qualified in something else entirely?

Major airlines don't give two shits what your degree is in, having a degree in aviation science isn't going to give you a leg up over someone with a degree in accounting, for example. The main idea is that you have a degree, thereby proving that you know how to study, focus, and have motivation and resolve.



PHX based
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8134 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 19):
You're comparing two rather worthless degrees though, psychology and aviation science.

I guess we'll agree to disagree  Smile

An Aviation degree is hardly worthless. The chances are he will try and use it for an aviation job....he's never gonna use a psychology degree for anything relevant to psychology.

Quoting EssentialPowr (Reply 18):
Any degree with "Aviation" in the name is fairly worthless...Why?

-From an academic standpoint, it doesn't provide any advantage in pilot hiring, as anyone will tell you that any 4 year degree is sufficient.

So it's not worthless - it's the same as any other degree except he did it because he enjoyed it, rather than the heck of it.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 19):
Now, do you really want a piece of paper that says you're only qualified to fly airplanes, or do you want a piece of paper that has you qualified in something else entirely?

It doesn't only say that. It's a degree and for the same reason some airlines don't care what degree it is - most other industries don't care either.

I'd also challenge those that say it doesn't make a difference in the aviation world. When times are tough, and/if you are a borderline candidate up against another guy - you bet many companies will look at your aviation degree. Maybe not the airlines, but since I hire people myself, I can tell you it does matter. If 2 guys are similar in resumes, and one has an aviation degree ...who am I gonna hire?

In the non-aviation world, in most cases a degree is also a degree ....it works both ways.



Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8100 times:

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 8):
My advice, use the "management" end of the degree and get an MBA, thats really the only reason I did it. The only thing I need now is a chance and the time to get one (once I graduate). Then you will have a "real" degree as some here might think.

Ill only see if an MBA is worth it if an Airline pays for my tuition for it like those big International Carriers that send people off to get MBAs.

wasting more dollars on an MBA will not prove me anything. I am taking Accounting now, cause so many new aviation management jobs require something in Finance, Accounting, Auditing, SAP, etc all the stuff you dont get in Aviation Management School.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8083 times:

Quoting Mikkel777 (Reply 13):
I'd stay far away from ERAU. It is by far the most overrated university institution I've ever come across

A few nitwits doesn't make a great name like ERAU bad at all. I graduated from ERAU and it makes a hell of a difference, especially with airline ops. Aeronautical Science, if you pay attention, puts you ahead of many experienced airline pilots, as shown by the 8 of us flying for Turkish Airlines, we always receieve compliments on our procedures, our general knowledge of aviation and our background knowledge of what's going on in the community, all of those things developed at ERAU for us. Sure it may be expensive and it may not work out for some people, but I am strongly against people just learning to fly at any old place then jumping into airline ops...we got extensive aerodynamics, weather, airline ops and performance training and the MOST important training i got at ERAU was about aviation safety, you don't find that kind of high quality lecture so whether you go to ERAU or UND or anywhere, you should go to a place that offers it all, you owe it to your passengers in an emergency to be a top notch aviator.

I am not dissing FBOs, i used to work at one, but i would recommend FBO flying for people who don't want to go airline...

flame away...



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8075 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 22):
Aeronautical Science, if you pay attention, puts you ahead of many experienced airline pilots,

That's the key point that many are missing. Especially in management, you are way ahead of someone who has an accounting degree, when it comes to aviation knowledge. They'll be learning much of the stuff that you already know!

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 21):
Finance, Accounting, Auditing, SAP, etc all the stuff you dont get in Aviation Management School.

Actually, of course the aviation colleges know this. That's why a business core often takes up 30-40% of an aviation management degree.

From Embry-riddle:

Business Core
BA 311 Marketing 3
BA 312 Managerial Accounting 3
BA 314 Human Resource Management 3
BA 317 Organizational Behavior 3
BA 320 Business Information Systems 3
BA 325 Social Responsibility and Ethics
in Management 3
BA 332 Corporate Finance I 3
BA 335 International Business 3
BA 390 Business Law 3
BA 420 Management of Production
and Operations 3
BA 436 Strategic Management 3
EC 315 Managerial Economics


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 23):
Actually, of course the aviation colleges know this. That's why a business core often takes up 30-40% of an aviation management degree.

Thats the problem! The Opening and Human Resources wants 30 to 40% in FULL ACCOUNTING or FINANCE, not broad orientation courses about Finance or Accounting. They want over 20-40 credits in a specific business field to prove that you can do the job, not just some peachtree accounting for a small FBO.

What would have to happen would be a Airline Accounting Degree, which is Aviation and complete Accounting to let you sit for a CPA exam. If your accounting and finance load in the aviation degree is not enough for a CPA sit in, then it means you have to go back to school again.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
25 Post contains images Bond007 : Hmmm..I don't see Peachtree accounting in my list of the core business subjects?? If you want to be a CPA, then take an accounting degree....although
26 Bwood : How can anyone say that aviation science is not a real degree. I have seen the cirriculum and heard from people who took the classes say that it is ha
27 777STL : I didn't say it wasn't a "real" degree, but it's rather useless for anything other than flying. That's my opinion, before any rabid ERAU students att
28 Post contains images Bond007 : I don't necessarily disagree, but the initial question is about someone who WANTS a career in the aviation industry. Personally, if I own a business,
29 EssentialPowr : You should have copied the rest of my quote. The aviation degree is great as long the (pilot) who has it is still in the airline business. The point
30 Bond007 : OK, I guess we'll disagree on that one! IMO no 3-4 year degree is worthless in any industry. In reality, it's the 'business degrees' that are worth l
31 Bwood : I really disagree with you EssentialPowr. An aviation degree is just as worthless outside of aviation as a communications degree is worhtless outside
32 Pilottim747 : I agree. Most employees in the workforce are not working in the field that they got a degree in. Employers want to see and 4 year degree but many job
33 Tugger : All I know is that my B.S.ABA from Embry-Riddle helped me get my job. My boss said that when he reviewed the many resumes for the job, mine stood spec
34 Post contains images CXB744 : I have to agree. The last time I was flying around PRC their calls to Tower were lacking that polished touch of old. Well said! BWOOD, If there is a
35 Malaysia : Its not a course. Peachtree is just some simple accounting software that most people can do without an accounting degree, but what I am saying is you
36 Bond007 : Yes, I am aware of Peachtree. I was saying, with some sarcasm, that I didn't see it in a list that included such subjects as Business Information Sys
37 Tugger : Thank you~ I have a definite passion for my education/school/field and this thread definitely hit on that. I too had wondered in the past about just
38 Post contains images Db373 : Pilots are largely hired on experience, not on what degree they have. If you have two qualified applicants sitting in front of you, both with similar
39 LOT767-300ER : I am actually majoring in the same thing @ ERAU right now. I was already offered jobs with Bombardier and Gulfstream aerospace when they heard I go t
40 CXB744 : Just remember "1 in 5." That's the ratio of us (Riddle pilots) flying for airlines.
41 Malaysia : On the other hand you have to deal with especially the Dumb Human Resources Rep who you must go through before even getting a direct interview with th
42 SX36 : Actually in a talk with AS Chief Pilot Paul Major, he said a 4 year degree is a must. AS will NOT hire a person lacking a 4 year degree regardless of
43 Bond007 : I was commenting on the aviation industry in general, not just pilots ... I agree it's a little different. But, since I do work in the aviation indus
44 EssentialPowr : During the post 9/11 times, many pilots off our seniority list that had solid degrees went on to post graduate studies in business, law, and medicine
45 Bond007 : I've been in the industry a little longer (yes, since leaving college), and from my experience it's fact ...not incorrect. It might be different from
46 Visakow : GI- Don't know here how many are prior service but in the next few years even the Navy is requiring at least an associates degree to be advanced to E-
47 BWOOD : EssentialPowr I am amazed that you think an av science degree is so worthless. When I said that if an av science degree is as worhtless outside of avi
48 EssentialPowr : Bond007, that comment was directed at Bwood, 2nd paragraph of reply 44 that starts "I note your age group..." . No, that's not what I'm saying, thank
49 EssentialPowr : Choose not to believe me...that is certainly your right. I type my thoughts purely as an exercise for myself; if I wanted credibility on this forum I
50 EZYman : If the aviation industry was more stable, an Aviation Science degree would be worth a lot more than its perceived by some people on this forum. People
51 Post contains images Bond007 : Well, then they weren't looking were they! 90% of the jobs out there that require a degree, don't specify and don't care what that degree is! Please
52 Bwood : EssentialPowr it is not that I don't value your opinion it is just that how can you say those things about people who have av science degrees. I know
53 Post contains images Tozairport : OK, that's got to be the most arrogant statement I have heard in a long time. My aviation maintenance degree coursework was every bit invloved and te
54 KabAir : Hi BWOOD- First of all, congrats on your school plans and I'm sure you'll do very well! I would personally say don't get a degree you don't want to ge
55 EssentialPowr : . Did it have differential equations? thermodynamics? Of course you know what a Reynolds number is...There is no comparison in academic rigor b/t an
56 Bwood : Thanks KabAir for the post. I know what you are saying about the industry and its weaknesses. I agree that business degrees are dime a dozen and reall
57 Post contains images Bond007 : You know, It's amazing how I got to my current position without knowing thermodynamics, Reynolds numbers (sure it isn't Reynold's ???), or having an
58 Post contains images Tozairport : Yes, yes, and yes. Contradicting statements. On one hand you are professing to be an expert on all other degrees by saying that there is nothing comp
59 EssentialPowr : Outstanding; then when techcial questions arise that are beyond your capabilities, you can simply defer the question. There'n no reason for hostility
60 Tod : Part of my job entails reviewing the resumes of aerospace engineers. I value aerospace specific knowledge over degrees and would rather have someone t
61 Tozairport : OK, you're crazy. My exact point is that you are the one saying that an engineering degree is above all others in terms of academic rigor, so you are
62 Mikkel777 : I must admit I do agree with ESSPWR here. After completing my master of science, everything else became a piece of cake. FAA CPL/CFI's and JAA ATPL wa
63 Cancidas : i have to say no. i've been through riddle, all that gave me was a huge debt to pay off. i learned more from better teachers at a community college th
64 Post contains images Tozairport : First of all, thank you for the lucid points. It is nice to be able to have a discussion. I understand where you are coming from, but an aviation deg
65 AirRyan : Try Embry-Riddle online - it's significantly cheaper, your dimploma looks the same, and you can otherwise enroll in the aviation flying at your local
66 Post contains images Bond007 : I don't need to, because as far as I know, nobody in my company, including myself, have (or is it 'has') ever needed to know what a Reynolds number i
67 Post contains images Tozairport : OK dude, you're cracking me up. I don't think we'll see nonessential power on this thread anymore... P.S. Your reading is coming along well... in cas
68 HighFlyer9790 : Are we saying that ERAU is a very focused university, almost like a vocational? i mean would people outside the aviation world not really think its a
69 Pilotaydin : well, i think i understand your question...here is what i think. It's surprizing to see that people who finished riddle have no problems with the sch
70 Malaysia : I have even a bigger debt to pay off from ASU than ERAU, cause ASU is more expensive anyway.
71 777STL : And someone with an FBO or other flight academy background wouldn't be able to perform? This smells like Riddle marketing BS to me. Anyone can get lo
72 Pilotaydin : I don't need to market for Riddle, the airline that hired me did their research and they interviewed people from all sorts of academies and schools a
73 777STL : I have nothing against Riddle, just its graduates who by and large think their shit doesn't stink. Time and time again, FBO grads have proven they do
74 Pilotaydin : You can't know something is neccessary if you don't even know about it...there are many fine details in aviation that you do not get in an FBO enviro
75 HighFlyer9790 : lets say someone goes to riddle for aeronautical science, etc. and they already have their private pilot license and IFR rating. could you graduate f
76 TheGreatChecko : Why would you pay for a type-rating? Reputable companies will pay for that and with the experience you will have coming out of school you won't be ab
77 Joness0154 : Good luck getting that turbine time from Riddle. I for one attended Riddle, and then got tired of their attitude of "give me your money and we might
78 Pilotaydin : im glad that you found what worked for you, however the topic is about flight colleges yes or no...not a comparison amongst the flight colleges thems
79 Joness0154 : Well then I'd say no to a flight degree. When you lose your medical because you were playing catch with a kitchen knife while drunk on the beach tell
80 Pilotaydin : Well, i don't know what you're talking about with knives and comparing it to degrees that people take, what other people do is their own demise, I we
81 Bwood : You know guys I find all of this quite interesting. People who have gone to Riddle vs. non riddle. Av degrees vs. non av degrees. I think it is about
82 United Airline : While academic qualifications are important, it's not everything. Hardwork, intelligence, creativity must be taken into account too. Plenty of success
83 EssentialPowr : I doubt your answers; where is your degree from, and what degree is it? ??? A personal, hypothetical comment such as this does not deserve a response
84 EssentialPowr : Please provide a reference for this "statistic"
85 RiddlePilot215 : I go to Riddle, and even I know that's not a given. Riddle wishes the days of 'exclusive' hiring, or reduced hour criteria from IP's with most of the
86 EssentialPowr : Bingo!! Thanks for not taking offense at my comments, as some obviously have...
87 Bwood : EssentialPowr you just amaze me with these comments. I like to hear constructive criticism but I have no choice but to take offense to your comments.
88 Essentialpowr : Wow back, pal. Have you not read what I've been writing? I've never claimed that I was superior, or gotten personal. I've merely stated that technica
89 EssentialPowr : Uhh...I meant "whoa back"!
90 Post contains images Bond007 : LOL...if you only you knew ... LOL again ...we were making fun of the fact that you insisted on correcting other's mistakes (when it was hardly neces
91 Post contains images Tozairport : Umm, OK.... I guess this liitle diddy wasn't written by you then... What points? So far as I can tell all you have done is be a grammar teacher in th
92 EssentialPowr : The point I have made is that one should consider a degree outside of aviation; the industry is too volatile to limit one's options when times are dif
93 BWOOD : You know that you were putting down people's degrees EssentialPowr. You made it quite clear with the comment "those that can, engineer, and those that
94 EssentialPowr : Young boy, Bwood, please quit whining. Please. This quote is still one of the most juevenille and funniest I've read, to date, on these forums. Good
95 Visakow : From my experience it has been about diversity and knowledge not just what school one went to. I will probably end up finishing with Riddle (Proffessi
96 Bwood : Once again you are quoting only part of what I write to make me sound bad. Funny how you quote only the parts that you want to and not the whole thing
97 EssentialPowr : Are you sure you don't make you sound bad? Oh, LATER you learned how ridiculous this sounds: Hank Azzaria couldn't have written that better. Yeah, yo
98 Post contains images Tod : What on earth does Autocad have to do with airplanes? That would be a poor choice of tools. Try something Catia, UG, Pro E, etc. Tod
99 Goingboeing : You might want to read Les Abend's column in this months Flying magazine. He addresses if the return on investment to become an airline pilot is that
100 BWOOD : EssentialPowr lets agree to disagree on this topic. It is obvious that we do not share the same opinion and that is fine but lets put an end to the ba
101 Post contains images LOT767-300ER : I don't know how old you are, but to me it is pretty damn funny that your trying to argue your degree and cannot even spell the word "juvenile," even
102 EssentialPowr : I'm busted; great job Jeeves! It's not a misspelling, I just really wanted to sound like a 30 something year old from France!
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