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Lufthansa Not Satisfied With A350 And 787  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 18354 times:

It is also mentioned in the A350/787 pending orders thread but I wanted to post some excerpts article here:

According to the German news magazine Focus Lufthansa is not very satisfied with the latest products of its suppliers Airbus and Boeing.
Lufthansa demands further improvements on both aircrafts. According to Lufthansa´s fleet manager Nico Buchholz the A350 does not have enough range.
"We would like to have about 1000 or 2000 km more range ",said Buchholz to Focus magazine. He also critized the low number of seats offered on the 787.
"The 787 is smaller than our A340-300. We would like to have it about the same size for the same number of passengers."
.....
According to Scott Scarson, the sales manager of Boeing, he sees an increasing demand in the longer version of the 787-10.
"Emirates was the first customer that came to us regarding the 787, in between there are about 10 airlines that showed interest in it."

Link in German:

http://focus.msn.de/magazin/magazin/...assungen/meldung/xy_aid_21389.html


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 18110 times:

Where these comment made before or after Boeing announced the -10? And will the -10 be what Lufthansa is looking for?

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 18098 times:

It does seem that more and more customers are pushing for the 787 to have greater capacity. That being said, I wonder if the problem at Lufthansa is the fact that they don't like the A350 and Airbus isn't offering anything else right now!


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 18042 times:

Quoting CX747 (Reply 2):
That being said, I wonder if the problem at Lufthansa is the fact that they don't like the A350 and Airbus isn't offering anything else right now!

Or they are perhaps buying time until the next version of the A-350 makes it debut....



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 17493 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
According to the German news magazine Focus Lufthansa is not very satisfied with the latest products of its suppliers Airbus and Boeing.
Lufthansa demands further improvements on both aircrafts. According to Lufthansa´s fleet manager Nico Buchholz the A350 does not have enough range.
"We would like to have about 1000 or 2000 km more range ",said Buchholz to Focus magazine. He also critized the low number of seats offered on the 787.
"The 787 is smaller than our A340-300. We would like to have it about the same size for the same number of passengers."

Ever noticed that more and more "debate" is publicly floated (Clark EK Udvar hazy ILFC and even OS) rather than the traditional arena of manufacturer and the customer.

Quoting CX747 (Reply 2):
That being said, I wonder if the problem at Lufthansa is the fact that they don't like the A350 and Airbus isn't offering anything else right now!

 checkmark 

I think you are dead right here. LH does not like the A350. I am sure they will never order the 787 for political reasons.

I think Nico Buchholz should be moaning about the 10% extra fuel his A346s burn over the 77W but that won't likely happen.

There is too much of this 'public opinion' criticizing of mostly yet to be released products. I am refering to the constant doom and gloom of the A350 which will be closer to the 787 than is predicted. The main problem is the inferior aircraft is normally to the market two years before and not two years after and the same applies to the technology within the product.

That is the simple problem Airbus has with the A350. Reactionary, older technology, basically inferior and arriving in the market two years later than 787!!!

I prefer to let the sales do the talking and on that score there is clearly no debate.  thumbsup 


User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17324 times:

Looks like LH (like SQ,OS and EK) are crying for the Airbus-Solution.

Probably my statement some days ago about concerns about the B787 from these airlines was not soo wrong.


User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17324 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
According to the German news magazine Focus Lufthansa is not very satisfied with the latest products of its suppliers Airbus and Boeing.
Lufthansa demands further improvements on both aircrafts. According to Lufthansa´s fleet manager Nico Buchholz the A350 does not have enough range.
"We would like to have about 1000 or 2000 km more range ",said Buchholz to Focus magazine. He also critized the low number of seats offered on the 787.
"The 787 is smaller than our A340-300. We would like to have it about the same size for the same number of passengers."

Why not buy the 777LR? Seems like that is what LH wants.

M


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17303 times:

Well, LH, which is less satisfying...

The A350 and 787, or the 343s you will end up keeping if you don't order either?

They're bitching that the 787-9 isn't as big as the 343, but until the 787-10 was proposed, that was theoretically what the 772ER was for.

The A350-900 is the same size as the 343, but that doesn't suit them either.

So keep on flying those older jets around and see how competitive you are, LH.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 17219 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 4):
I think you are dead right here. LH does not like the A350. I am sure they will never order the 787 for political reasons.

What political issues? LH flies lots of Boeing planes. I could understand Iran or Iraq buying US planes, but Germany???



Heia Norge!
User currently offlineCargairMax50 From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 17063 times:

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 8):
What political issues? LH flies lots of Boeing planes. I could understand Iran or Iraq buying US planes, but Germany???

Lufthansa is German. Airbus is made of a European Consortium. Germany is part of this consortium as some Airbus planes are built in Germany. That's the political issue.


User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16999 times:

@ Ikramerica

Sorry, but you are wrong in one statement:

They say the B787-9 is not as big as the A343, which is true.

But you claim the A359 has the same size as the A343, that is wrong.It is around 3m longer.They only want more range.

Johnny   Smile

[Edited 2006-05-09 04:00:04]

User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16734 times:

Quoting CargairMax50 (Reply 9):
Lufthansa is German. Airbus is made of a European Consortium. Germany is part of this consortium as some Airbus planes are built in Germany. That's the political issue.

I am sure Boeing has some operations in Germany as Airbus does in the U.S. It's not really a valid argument for the government, though they may use it.

M

[Edited 2006-05-09 04:16:38]

User currently offlineLp0815 From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16539 times:

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 11):
I am sure Boeing has some operations in Germany as Airbus does in the U.S. It's not really a valid argument for the government, though they may use it.

The thing is just that no government is involved when LH makes decision what plane to buy.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
So keep on flying those older jets around and see how competitive you are, LH.

That is true indeed.
On the other hand, LH has no real pressure to buy soon, as their A343s and even also the A300s are fit to fly some more years.

Therefore, they can well afford to try and press their suppliers into delivering a product more suitable to LHs needs. Would do the same if I was in their shoes.



Time waits for nobody
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5157 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16419 times:

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 1):
Where these comment made before or after Boeing announced the -10? And will the -10 be what Lufthansa is looking for?

A mediocre (mine) translation from the actual German is:

""According to Scott Carson, Boeing sales boss for airliners, Boeing has seen an increasing demand for the long version of the "Dreamliner", the 787-10: "Emirates was the first customer that came to us for the 787-10. Since then, about ten airlines have shown interest." "" [Note that the version of the article in German refers expressly to the 787-10.]

""For the revised "jumbo jet", the B-747-8, the breakthrough in the market is expected to occur in 2006. "We expect that this year we will sign the first customer for the passenger version," said the manager of the US aircraft manufacturer.""

Also note the following:

""In view of Lufthansa's criticism, aviaiton expert Franc Skodzik of investment bank WestLB Panmure sees "serious problems" coming to Airbus. "The A350 is different from the rival Boeing 787, as it is not a newly-designed airplane, but rather an advancement of the A330. Therefore, the orders remain far behind expectations," said the Duesseldorf analyst.""

Hope this helps.


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16419 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 10):
But you claim the A359 has the same size as the A343, that is wrong.It is around 3m longer.They only want more range.

Try number of seats....


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16230 times:

Who else is there to buy from?

Lufthansa is in an enviable position - they are going to need aircraft in the near future, and they can put pressure on both Boeing and Airbus to create technologically advanced aircraft that suit their needs.

Eastern and United did the same with Boeing in the early 1960's. Eastern wanted a two-engined jet to fly LGA-Florida fully loaded off the shortest runway. United wanted a four-engine chat to use DEN fully loaded. Boeing made the 727 - a three engine jet with revolutionary high lift devices that satisfied both.

Sometimes results only come when pressure is applied - good for LH!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 16216 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 5):
Looks like LH (like SQ,OS and EK) are crying for the Airbus-Solution.

Probably my statement some days ago about concerns about the B787 from these airlines was not soo wrong.

care to share those "concerns" Johnny?  Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15678 times:

Where does LH want to fly this plane to that they need 1.000nm and even 2.000nm more?
The A358 has an AIRBUS stated range of 8.800nm, the A359 a tad shorter with 7.500nm
(Numbers straight from the company website....unless they are bogus? shhh 

What gives?

From Frankfurt 8.800 excludes New Zealand and the West Coast of Australia.
7.500 blanks out all of Australia and South Pacific and much of Antartica....
So where are they planning on flying these birds?

Unless it is saber rattling.

Lufthansa should just shut up and by some 77Ws, that's what they really want right?
It is this reality that tells me it is a political thing unfortunately...cause an aircraft out there exists, its just that their preferred vendor doesn't build it.
 tapedshut 



Delete this User
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15653 times:

Quoting CargairMax50 (Reply 9):

Lufthansa is German. Airbus is made of a European Consortium. Germany is part of this consortium as some Airbus planes are built in Germany. That's the political issue.

So what about all the 737s and 747s Lufthansa has? Lufthansa will buy the best aircraft for its needs, just as it has in the past.


User currently offline767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15380 times:

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 18):
So what about all the 737s and 747s Lufthansa has? Lufthansa will buy the best aircraft for its needs, just as it has in the past.

Purchasing the A340-300 and A340-600 does not back the last sentence in your statement.



Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
User currently offlineNASOCEANA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15286 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Well, LH, which is less satisfying...

The A350 and 787, or the 343s you will end up keeping if you don't order either?

They're bitching that the 787-9 isn't as big as the 343, but until the 787-10 was proposed, that was theoretically what the 772ER was for.

The A350-900 is the same size as the 343, but that doesn't suit them either.

So keep on flying those older jets around and see how competitive you are, LH.

Totally agreed. If you don't like it, don't order it!  checkmark 

It seems as if the airlines have been watching "MTV and Pimp my Plane (Ride)! Every airlines wants Boeing or Airbus to customize this and change that to fit their respective business model.

Boeing and Airbus can't please all!!!

Just my $.02



B777 greatest Airliner ever built!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15268 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 4):
I am sure they will never order the 787 for political reasons.

And why will the order be political? When will people realise that LH is a private company. The state gave up its ownership over 10 years ago, so politics will have nothing to do with it. LH will order what they want, when they want, with the money they can use for spendings. Neither Angie Merkel, the Transportation Minister or even Parliament have a say on what LH should order.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
Where does LH want to fly this plane to that they need 1.000nm and even 2.000nm more?

It's 1000 to 2000 kilometres, not nautical miles.

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 12):
On the other hand, LH has no real pressure to buy soon, as their A343s and even also the A300s are fit to fly some more years.

If the LH customer code is used on any future 787 order, then for the time being it will only be Condor using the aircraft. DE may be the ones in need of new aircraft, since their 767 fleet is getting old. The A350 might be a bit too big for DE, which makes the 787 a prime candidate for a one to one 767 replacement.

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 19):
Purchasing the A340-300 and A340-600 does not back the last sentence in your statement.

Actually it does. LH didn't buy the A340s out of political reasons (well, perhaps they did before they got privatised), it is because that's the aircraft type that suits their needs (and perhaps also because fuel prices were low back then, which didn't make the fuel burn advantage twins have over quads that evident). If LH however would have to make the order today, they would surely be evaluating things and it would be a hard decision.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
It is this reality that tells me it is a political thing unfortunately

See above, LH is private and politics has no influence on them.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6782 posts, RR: 77
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15176 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 4):
I am sure they will never order the 787 for political reasons.

LH is a private company, just in case you forgot. Second, LH have always ordered what suited their needs - if you check their order history you may realize that certain Boeing products didn't exist when LH placed an order.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 4):
I think Nico Buchholz should be moaning about the 10% extra fuel his A346s burn over the 77W but that won't likely happen.

That's a totally different issue - another size of aircraft. And even if it were an issue - probably they wouldn't moan after taking into consideration all the costs for replacing an entire A340 fleet? Is it so hard to realize LH's decision to order the A346 was just a logic one? A short check of their fleet of those days would help.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
but until the 787-10 was proposed, that was theoretically what the 772ER was for.

"WAS", that's correct.

Quoting CargairMax50 (Reply 9):
Lufthansa is German. Airbus is made of a European Consortium. Germany is part of this consortium as some Airbus planes are built in Germany. That's the political issue.

So what? Air France is one of the largest B777 operators. Get over these simplistic conclusions. LH is not like Aeroflot or Chinese airlines.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
Lufthansa should just shut up and by some 77Ws, that's what they really want right?

Really? How do you know that? Have their fleet planners told you that? It's really time to drop that permanent and tiring "LH wants B77W"-drivel - their fleet managers made a final decision not long ago and they have had their reasons.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
It is this reality that tells me it is a political thing unfortunately...cause an aircraft out there exists, its just that their preferred vendor doesn't build it.

This reality or YOUR reality? The latter one I guess...

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 19):
Purchasing the A340-300 and A340-600 does not back the last sentence in your statement.

Of course it does - both types were the most suitable aircraft at the time when LH ordered them.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15132 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 10):

They say the B787-9 is not as big as the A343, which is true.

The B787-9 has a cabin floor area of 257.4 sq meters. The A340-300 has a cabin floor area of 258.8 sq meters. At armrest height, the B787-9 is insignificantly larger than the A340-300.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 14954 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 10):
But you claim the A359 has the same size as the A343, that is wrong.It is around 3m longer.They only want more range.

So they want a plane SLIGHTLY larger than the 789, not as big as the 787-10, and half way between the 358 and 359, with 9000nm range.

Place and order for 50+50, and I'm sure either airline will build you one.

Otherwise, order what is available.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
Where does LH want to fly this plane to that they need 1.000nm and even 2.000nm more?

I think it says 1000-2000 km, not nm.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Johnnybgoode : not entirely correct. before LH ordered 7 additional A346s, they seriously considered the 777 (I believe the -300ER in particular). as a matter of fa
26 Post contains images Johnny : @ Ikramerica Why are you so sarcasm about LH and their wishes ? Any bad experiences from your side..? I see no difference in comparison to Mr. Clark o
27 Hirnie : It`s funny how some people on here react on LH`s statements. If EK or SQ would have done so everybody would have said Airbus must react, Boeing has to
28 Scouseflyer : 789.5!
29 Cure : Do you agree when Emirates is complaining about A350 asking for better specifics to match their needs (and puttig consequently the B787 in a better l
30 Post contains images Keesje : it looks like this "And 787" is touching some open nerves First they dare to ignore the 777 and now the 787 ain't good enough, who the f... do they t
31 Post contains links and images Brendows : Quoting Keesje (Reply 30): Fact is many real blue chip airlines are not convinced they had to step in. BA, LH, AF, KL, DL, AA, US, SQ, CX .. must I go
32 DAL767400ER : DL is in bankruptcy fighting for survival, AA is fighting to avoid CH11, US got some nice financing from Airbus to order A350s, KL only does what AF
33 Beaucaire : Once again it should be noticed that so far nobody has seen any tangible proof that the 787 is as fantastic as Boeing is trying to sell it... Maintena
34 Post contains images A342 : So go and tell that LH. I'm sure they didn't take this into account. They desperately need your expertise.
35 Dalecary : And fact is the 787 is the fastest selling widebody of all time, by a long way. BA, AA, DL are unlikely to be ready to order this year anyway because
36 Zkpilot : So true... As much as I'd love to see LH downunder, there is no need for them to do so as NZ is their *A partner in this part of the world, or they c
37 Post contains images CRJ900 : I find it amusing that LH seem to do the opposite of what so many armchair CEO's here on Airliners.net regard as wise and good decisions: 1) They oper
38 Wingman : Don't forget though, this is the one major airline in the industrialized world that suffers virtually zero competition on it's home turf. I can't reca
39 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Try telling that to Ryanair, DBA, Air Berlin, or HLX . LH is receiving some healthy competition these days, particularly at MUC, their second hub and
40 Post contains images Johnny : @Wingman Sorry to say that, but it is a little bit old fashined thinking that the home market of LH is Germany. The home-market for BA,LH, and AF is E
41 Revelation : LH is private, and like all airlines, politics has an influence on them, because politicians usually control airports, airspace, corporate regulation
42 ScottB : One of the largest, yes, but most profitable, not exactly. In 2005, the operating profit of Lufthansa Group's Passenger Transportation business segme
43 FLALEFTY : With a nice, young fleet of A340s, LH is not in any hurry. If LH is patient and persistent with BA and Airbus, they will get a fleet of 787s or A350s
44 767-332ER : So even if fuel was @ $1 per barrel, it would still be wiser to operate a more fuel-efficient aircraft. The only way I were to choose differently is
45 Post contains images OA412 : I am sick and tired of this argument resurfacing on this forum every so often when time and again it has been proven false. Everyone said that AF wou
46 PanHAM : I haven't read all the contributions here, but the same FOCUS article said that the A380's final assembly is in Hamburg XFW. FOCUS is not a bad magazi
47 LTU932 : Perhaps, but as far as aircraft orders go, nobody can persuade them to buy anything except for Airbus, Boeing, or others.
48 PlaneHunter : That's what I was talking about actually. Are you joking? No way... It seems you're talking about another Germany... FR did not start flights to and
49 A342 : This is wrong. Final assembly is in TLS. However, installing cabin interiors and painting is done in XFW.
50 PlaneHunter : You seriously compare today's LH to some failed carriers? Or if I already operate a large fleet of a similar type and probably get an attractive deal
51 LTU932 : If I'm not mistaken, XFW is also due to become the Airbus Delivery Centre. All deliveries will be done from XFW unless special circumstances require
52 Post contains images Jacobin777 : or the 777-200F....
53 A319XFW : XFW is going to be the delivery centre for the European and Middle Eastern A380's. TLS for the Asian and US (I think US) They had the same A350 range
54 PanHAM : Ecxactly, mate. That's why I said that we should not give too much credit to that article. Just read AND understand my posting, OK?
55 PanHAM : Probably, but in that FOCUS article there was a comparison about the varuous ranges, they completely left out the T7LR and compared the A350-800 with
56 Post contains images CRJ900 : Can one really compare Southwest to Lufthansa? WN is a low-cost carrier with a good but limited product offered on the same type of aircraft, flying
57 Keesje : Maybe it would be build in Germany. If the fuselage doesn´t fit in a Beluga and the German part of Airbus demands it´s fair share..
58 Aither : I always said the 787 was too small... After all it seems airlines are not too kind to open so many new long haul point to point thin routes... Boeing
59 ScottB : Would you prefer the snapshot to be of the U.S. network carriers in the late 1990's and 2000? They were turning in enormous profits -- considerably l
60 Atmx2000 : Right, and that is why Boeing has booked 268 787-8 orders and 43 787-3 orders.
61 Zvezda : Huh? What are you talking about? Boeing has been trying to sell newer JumboJets to the airlines since the mid-1990s. The problem was that until the B
62 PlanesNTrains : Johnny, I'm trying to figure this out still. Airlines don't like the 787 because there is "something" wrong with it. While that may very well be true
63 Post contains images Johnny : @PlanesNTrains probably because they are both not the optimum or should i say more than enough open questions and lots of promises. I guess that both
64 PlanesNTrains : Again, you may be right, but then why the general lack of criticism or even open questioning of the 787 by most airlines in the market? I'm just look
65 Post contains images Johnny : @ Dave I really like your way of thinking. You are right that the B787 is a big success with lots of customers, but there are also some customers whic
66 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : While perhaps accurate, I didn't really mention the success of the 787 per se - just the vocal criticism's, or lack thereof. Certainly it's been succ
67 11Bravo : The B787 has 350 firm orders more than a year in advance of first flight. It is entirely plausible that it may have 500 or more orders before EIS in
68 Post contains images Zvezda : Two years ago, there was tremendous technical risk in the B787 program. Most of that risk has since been overcome. Well said. Short term, Boeing are
69 Dhefty : But Airbus is in a good position because they don't even have one line open?
70 LTU932 : The only line they're due to close is the A300 line. And since I believe the A330s pretty much share the same line as the A340s, I don't think your r
71 Dhefty : But will the "new-all new" A350 share that line? It seems doubtful, since a wider fuselage would surely require new tooling and therefore a new line.
72 Ikramerica : No, it just seems that they are saying nothing is good enough and want a plane tailored to their needs. So do EK and SQ, except... Both of these carr
73 Leelaw : You may have a point, especially if the "new all-new" A350 will be assembled at XFW as some media reports have suggested.
74 11Bravo : I think you're probably right with regard to LH on this, but if we continue to see fuel costs increase, it's going to make those "agenda" purchases l
75 Abba : That is indeed strange I guess that you are right Airbus at this stage can still change (and might very likely do so) the 350. As to the 787 it is to
76 Zvezda : I wrote that, in the short term, until Boeing announce their decision on opening a 2nd line, that some airlines will hesitate to order in the hope of
77 PlanesNTrains : I agree completely. However, how does one take that simple fact and turn it into some sort of issue with the Dreamliner? I'm sorry, but I can't belie
78 Johnny : I think LH is a very difficult customer as they are facing the problem that they are in need to replace not less than 7 types within the next 10-15 ye
79 Molykote : Agreed - the airplane hasn't flown or produced flight test data to confirm its performance. However, the generally reliable Boeing promises and reput
80 Atmx2000 : My default position has been that LH would never order Boeing if it could get a model in the same category from Airbus. The rumors of the LH picking
81 Post contains images LTU932 : Well, now that 4 delivery slots for 2008 have opened up after NZ converted their orders to 787-9s, perhaps somebody (maybe even LH on behalf of DE) co
82 Atmx2000 : According to various Kiwi's, NZ always had 2010 slots.
83 LTU932 : Curious, I read somewhere else those slots were for 2008. Did NZ1 confirm anything on the slots?
84 Atmx2000 : I always thought they were a -8 launch customer and had early slots. But the ANZ official said they could get -8s also in 2009 (from a lessor?).
85 Zkpilot : thats right. 2009/10 NZ was looking at leasing some 787-8's early but always intended 2009/10. Yes NZ was the 2nd launch customer with NH. NZ got to
86 Zvezda : That means there are a few 2009 slots available. Exactly what SQ wanted.
87 Atmx2000 : They are going to get almost all the December 2010 787 slots?
88 Atmx2000 : Do they want the -8? I thought they were more interested in the -9.
89 Zvezda : I believe SQ want both the B787-8 and the B787-9. The B787-8 would be perfect for increasing frequency to daily on SQ's thinner european routes. Dail
90 Post contains images Johnnybgoode : This statement is so true! I would like to ask the moderators of this forum to have this message pop-up whenever the question of political influence
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