Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
787 Interior - Which Is It?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5483 times:

Which is the real 787 interior? These photos are both nice interiors, but I do not know which is the official one. At Planepictures.net, this demo is shown:
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=430109

However, at Boeing's website, the original concept interiors are still shown:
http://boeing.com/commercial/787family/gallery/k63450-02.html
http://boeing.com/commercial/787family/gallery/k63450-06.html

I'm confused about this.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGrantcv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Uh, they look like the same interiors to me. There are subtle differences in the detailing, but that is to be expected as a real one has not been built yet. Other variations will have to do with the class of seating and the customer airline's choices, but I don't see any reason to be confused.

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

Differences include the world image up front, and the upper portion of the bins are styled differently. Also, the handles on the bins on the Planepictures image are vertical.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

well that could be the difference in bins in business vs coach. they look like same mockups. u can see coach behind businees class in theb pic. looks same.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1219 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

Is it just me, or does it look like neither one of those mockups affords much privacy to the passenger. I am strating to think I am the only person in the world who wants the manufacturers to find a way to make the cabin feel spacious without making the passengers feel exposed. No one really likes the feeling of sleeping, when they feel like every passenger, from every cabin or class of service can see you as soon as they stand up. I realize these are just manufacturers mockups and each plane will look very similar to its operators other planes, but it seems like Boeing is making it diffficult to allow the airlines their personal style in the design. Opinions welcomed! (gently please!)


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineSaturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 4):
, but it seems like Boeing is making it diffficult to allow the airlines their personal style in the design.

How is it making it difficult? How is this 787 any different from any other previous Boeing/Airbus offering in terms of interior. Please explain because I don't follow. Aircraft manufacturers really give you a "green" aircraft. They only try to suggest a way to organize interior. Buy offering certain standards you save money. You can buy a "green" aircraft and put inside whatever you want - a barn with saddles if it fits your fancy.

[Edited 2006-05-10 07:47:36]

User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1219 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

it just seems as if all these "signature" elements, like the open entrance etc. are very different from the previous boeing or airbus interiors. I can appreciate the "green" nature of the aircraft, i just think the interior looks very very open.


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

Remember, a certain amount of openness is the name of the game after 9/11. If it's a regulation, they might as well build it into the design. We'll get used to it after awhile, and it won't look as if a curtain belongs there.

User currently offlineSaturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 6):
i just think the interior looks very very open.

Is it bad? I think it is very good.


User currently offlineKnoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 251 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4056 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 5):
How is it making it difficult? How is this 787 any different from any other previous Boeing/Airbus offering in terms of interior. Please explain because I don't follow. Aircraft manufacturers really give you a "green" aircraft. They only try to suggest a way to organize interior. Buy offering certain standards you save money. You can buy a "green" aircraft and put inside whatever you want - a barn with saddles if it fits your fancy.

Because what you don't realise is that what you can put inside an aircraft is only what the aircraft manufacturers allow you to put inside after they validated it!

And the fact is that Boeing has given very little options to its customers with regards to interiors on the 787. Everybody complained and it now seems that BCA will soon offer a larger catalogue, however this remains to be done.



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 9):
Because what you don't realise is that what you can put inside an aircraft is only what the aircraft manufacturers allow you to put inside after they validated it!

Post delivery you can install anything that you can certify via an STC.

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 9):
And the fact is that Boeing has given very little options to its customers with regards to interiors on the 787. Everybody complained and it now seems that BCA will soon offer a larger catalogue, however this remains to be done.

If Boeing doesn't support the customers wishes, the retrofit industry will.

Tod


User currently offlineBigSky123 From Slovenia, joined Dec 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3888 times:

There seems to be very little room for galleys in the 787.  scratchchin 

User currently offlineHb88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 814 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3795 times:

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 8):
Quoting AA777223 (Reply 6):
"i just think the interior looks very very open."

Is it bad? I think it is very good.

I guess it's open to opinion. I hate feeling 'exposed' in a plane, particularly on a long haul flight. It's probably hard to acheive, but flying around in what feels like a half-empty cinema isn't psychologically too pleasant.

of course your mileage may vary  Smile


User currently offlineKnoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 251 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3766 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Tod (Reply 10):
Post delivery you can install anything that you can certify via an STC



Quoting Tod (Reply 10):
If Boeing doesn't support the customers wishes, the retrofit industry will.

Ok, but what I see to that: added cost  dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign 

We are talking here of the interior catalogue from Boeing, not the one from retrofit or MROs centers.



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 13):
Quoting Tod (Reply 10):
If Boeing doesn't support the customers wishes, the retrofit industry will.

Ok, but what I see to that: added cost

Very true, but if the OEM doesn't build the plane the way you need it, it does happen. And it keeps me employed too  Wink

Tod


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

The 8 abreast seats look like the width of existing business class width seats. The 787 will hardly have 4 abreast in business class?

User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 9):
And the fact is that Boeing has given very little options to its customers with regards to interiors on the 787. Everybody complained and it now seems that BCA will soon offer a larger catalogue, however this remains to be done.

Care to elaborate this point that Boeing only offers a few options with reliable source? It is not a fact just because you said it is a fact. I am sure Boeing will be very very flexible in the interior possibilities especially up in the first class. For cattle class, who cares. I think from looking at the previous models from A and B there is almost no difference between the cattle class interior, except for IFE and seat bottom cushion.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3597 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 4):
Is it just me, or does it look like neither one of those mockups affords much privacy to the passenger. I am strating to think I am the only person in the world who wants the manufacturers to find a way to make the cabin feel spacious without making the passengers feel exposed.

There is limited privacy to begin with....in the post 9/11 world, closed curtains (atleast on flights involving the United States) and separation between cabins is limited. Moreover, Boeing wanted to make the aircraft feel genuinely large and spacious - which I think they suceeded at. The interior shots make the 787 look more spacious and open than 777 or 747 - both of which are wider, and world more roomy than A330/340.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 6):
it just seems as if all these "signature" elements, like the open entrance etc. are very different from the previous boeing or airbus interiors. I can appreciate the "green" nature of the aircraft, i just think the interior looks very very open.

The airlines will pick the way they finally work out. I'll agree, it's different, but I think it's a good change. I think it's kind of comforting, the open space. It feels less closed in, and on long flights, I think the large amounts of open space will be appreciated. The A380 took this to heart, as its interiors are also more open and wide than previous airliners.

Quoting Tod (Reply 10):
If Boeing doesn't support the customers wishes, the retrofit industry will.

I'm sure Boeing will offer enough options to make everyone happy, without just putting the same old seats from 767 and 777 in, and a set of 777 overhead bins. I think it is a good step forward - the new interior - and will be a positive change the average passenger will appreciate as new, and a step forward. Airbus seems to agree, because their model A350 cabin was the spitting image of 787s.

Quoting Hb88 (Reply 12):
I guess it's open to opinion. I hate feeling 'exposed' in a plane, particularly on a long haul flight. It's probably hard to acheive, but flying around in what feels like a half-empty cinema isn't psychologically too pleasant.

I'm sure the first and business cabins will be set up in such a way in the real liners to create a more cozy and isolated feelings (first especially). Cattle class - you'll feel open and exposed no matter what. I think the open design is nice though. I guess I myself have never been that sensative about sleeping on a plane. I guess I've never been afraid of the guy across the aisle or 3 seats back see me sleep.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 4):
does it look like neither one of those mockups affords much privacy to the passenger

Remember to consider that the FAA requires that the interior configuration must allow the F/A's to view 80 percent of the pax while seated in their attendant seats during TT&L.

Tod


User currently offlineKnoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 251 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3521 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 16):
Care to elaborate this point that Boeing only offers a few options with reliable source?

Customer Focus Group and Workgroup comittee conclusions. These are forum or conferences that the OEM organises with ALL its customers (dedicated to specific model; here 787) to inform them of the current situation of the development of the aircraft and on potential new options.

The airlines/customers then provide feedback and comments and eventually fears or appreciations.

This just happened to be the main conclusion of the last of these meetings, and it was unanimous.

If you want a proper source, just participate to one of these forums! (Of course you would need to be part of an airline fleet management team or work for one of the suppliers!)



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3484 times:

How does this unflexibility compare to what Boeing has already offered in their previous models?
If it is too expensive to tailor made every single aircraft interior then of course Boeing is not going to do it.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3410 times:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 20):
How does this unflexibility compare to what Boeing has already offered in their previous models?
If it is too expensive to tailor made every single aircraft interior then of course Boeing is not going to do it.

Just the classic balancing act between giving the customer what they want and doing it at a price that they are willing to pay.

Most of the time they get it pretty close. When they don't, either the other OEM or the retrofit market provides the solution.

Tod


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 13):
Ok, but what I see to that: added cost

We are talking here of the interior catalogue from Boeing, not the one from retrofit or MROs centers.

What extra add cost, many operators take delivery of their aircraft sans seats and carpets. They then install what they want when they get the airframe. Saves money and the manufactures have no problem with this arrangement.


User currently offlineKnoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 251 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3064 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting 474218 (Reply 22):
They then install what they want when they get the airframe.

"What they want when they get the airframe" generally implies that it is not part of the OEM catalogue since it was not installed at the final assembly line of the OEM, and therefore it is not certified under the type certificate of the aircraft.

I agree that with BFE suppliers the contract is signed between the airline and the supplier directly, but in 90% of the case, these suppliers are part of the OEM catalogue, however it is a different contract.

With the 787, BCA is launching a new kind of "contract", in which most of what used to be BFE (Buyer Furnished Equipment) will now be considered as SFE (Supplier Furnished Equipment), now becoming a direct responsibility of BCA, and not of the supplier.

Example: if you have an issue with a Recaro seat (and I'm not talking interface with the aircraft), before the airline would go to their Recaro Key Account Manager or field representative, etc... to solve the issue.

With the 787, Boeing agrees to deal with all those potential issues (customer support) directly and be responsible for it.

The thing is, Boeing's selection of suppliers under those terms is very thin.

If you want to install what you want, you have to be able to issue a Supplemental Type Certificate for the aircraft, as it is not an approved OEM modification.

So tell me how many airlines are able to do that? Not a lot, you have to have a lot of JAA/FAA approved licenses to do so, so many airlines send these to MROs which are approved, so added cost here.

Furthermore, it needs to be certified by your local authorities (the retrofit or the mod), and believe me, those guys take a hefty quantity of money to do so.

For example, the French DGAC takes a percentage of the total list price of every single Part Numbers you install on the aircraft.

Hope I shed a light on your concerns.



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 23):
If you want to install what you want, you have to be able to issue a Supplemental Type Certificate for the aircraft, as it is not an approved OEM modification.

So tell me how many airlines are able to do that?

Most of them.
What major airline has a fleet without any STC's?

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 23):
Furthermore, it needs to be certified by your local authorities (the retrofit or the mod), and believe me, those guys take a hefty quantity of money to do so.

It is more of a time issue than money when dealing with the FAA.
The Seattle ACO is overloaded with STC activity.

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 23):
For example, the French DGAC takes a percentage of the total list price of every single Part Numbers you install on the aircraft.

How long until EASA makes that practice history?

Tod


25 Saturn5 : Somehow it doesn't prevent this aircraft to be the best selling (before production) aircraft in Boeing's history. I suspect deep down it is non-issue
26 474218 : Not only did your reply not shed light on my concerns it actually brought up a lot more questions. 1. Please provide a site were I can see the seat m
27 Knoxibus : How many are actually able to do the work in itself, you did not read my post entirely. My example was the french DGAC. Soon hopefully, or maybe it i
28 Tod : You are correct in noting that more airlines don't secure the STC themselves. As you know, airlines chose to sub out a lot of their workload. Because
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NW40 Tonight, DTW-AMS - Which Is It? posted Sat Jul 30 2005 04:00:58 by RobK
NW40 Tonight, DTW-AMS - Which Is It? posted Sat Jul 30 2005 04:00:58 by RobK
DEN Or DIA Which Is It? posted Sun Mar 7 2004 05:33:10 by PHXMKEflyer
DEN Or DIA Which Is It? posted Sun Mar 7 2004 05:33:10 by PHXMKEflyer
QR, EK Or PK - Which Is It To Be? posted Tue Mar 25 2003 14:15:45 by GF-A330
QR, EK Or PK - Which Is It To Be? posted Tue Mar 25 2003 14:15:45 by GF-A330
DA,DE,DN,DL Which Is It? posted Sat Jan 5 2002 21:29:02 by Lubcha132
DA,DE,DN,DL Which Is It? posted Sat Jan 5 2002 21:29:02 by Lubcha132
Which Is It?............. posted Wed Jul 19 2000 20:18:22 by C72
Which Is It?............. posted Wed Jul 19 2000 20:18:22 by C72
CF6-80/PW4000.. Which Is It? posted Mon Jun 12 2000 06:52:51 by Panther
CF6-80/PW4000.. Which Is It? posted Mon Jun 12 2000 06:52:51 by Panther
787-1 - Is It Possible? posted Wed Jul 12 2006 08:58:39 by MCIGuy
787-1 - Is It Possible? posted Wed Jul 12 2006 08:58:39 by MCIGuy
787: Is It On Schedule? posted Mon Jan 30 2006 04:26:51 by A380900
787: Is It On Schedule? posted Mon Jan 30 2006 04:26:51 by A380900
The 787 Interior - How Successful Will It Be? posted Mon Nov 21 2005 21:06:22 by 1337Delta764
The 787 Interior - How Successful Will It Be? posted Mon Nov 21 2005 21:06:22 by 1337Delta764
MD-11 With 777 Interior...is It Possible? posted Wed Sep 15 2004 05:57:42 by Aerohottie
MD-11 With 777 Interior...is It Possible? posted Wed Sep 15 2004 05:57:42 by Aerohottie