PurdueAv2003 From United States, joined Dec 2005, 227 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2085 times:
Not really surprising. Currently, there is not enough O&D traffic and number of feeder passengers is significantly lower than when PIT last had international travel. PIT does have some blossoming business though, and, as Steeler83 and I have discussed in other threads, may provide the O&D traffic necessary to support international flights from PIT. Unfortunately, we are probably a few years away from that point.
MasseyBrown From United States, joined Dec 2002, 3323 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2052 times:
US Airways quarterly conference call (listen on the Investor Relations part of their website) includes the Q&A with the Pittsburgh reporter. He has reported accurately and unfortunately CEO Parker of US makes it sound as if there is no appeal other than a bigger "inducement" than has been offered so far.
CO once tried to hit up Cleveland for $5 million profit guarantee for a new European flight; so that is approximately what PIT would need to put up as an inducement. CLE declined and I expect PIT would as well.
MD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1909 times:
Transatlantic destinations from PIT doesnt have enough O&D to make ir worthy, on top of that US has scrapped alot of its feeder/connecting ops (they once had flights to JAX,BHM and SBN to show how big their ops were).
"Our goal is to get to Europe, to get a direct flight to Europe," he said. "US Airways is not the only company that goes to Europe. We're going to go to Europe. We're going to get a direct flight. We're not going to let US Airways dictate whether we go to Europe or not."
Steeler83 From United States, joined Feb 2006, 6120 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1815 times:
Quoting PurdueAv2003 (Reply 1): PIT does have some blossoming business though, and, as Steeler83 and I have discussed in other threads, may provide the O&D traffic necessary to support international flights from PIT. Unfortunately, we are probably a few years away from that point.
True, there is some growth in the business market, but right now the O&D is supremely low. Couple that with the lack of regional feeder, then yes, transatlantic service will not be feasible at this point. I do have to say that I do see it coming back at some point in the future. Maybe not by US, but maybe another LCC would be interested in doing such...
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2): CO once tried to hit up Cleveland for $5 million profit guarantee for a new European flight; so that is approximately what PIT would need to put up as an inducement. CLE declined and I expect PIT would as well.
Especially given that I think that CLE has a little bit of a stronger business market than PIT right now...
Quoting MD90fan (Reply 3): Transatlantic destinations from PIT doesnt have enough O&D to make ir worthy, on top of that US has scrapped alot of its feeder/connecting ops (they once had flights to JAX,BHM and SBN to show how big their ops were).
Bingo, as I stated before, the fairly weak business market coupled with the lack of regional feed for international traffic, and it looks like more of the regional traffic will be going to regions air, which will go to CLE... Some more regional erosion. I am hoping that the new base that Republic wants to establish at PIT will do very well and that PIT can get some of the feeder back through the service of Republic... just thoughts...
MasseyBrown From United States, joined Dec 2002, 3323 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1640 times:
Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 5): Is there a site somewhere that you can look up O&D estimates?
There is the T-100 International Table available at www.bts.gov; but the data is at least 5 months old. For a route without competition (meaning the whole number is one airline's traffic), the British CAA offers good data at:
Tsnamm From United States, joined May 2005, 369 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1489 times:
I would think wooing LH would be a good idea...PIT/FRA should be a reasonable route with an A-330...there are a lot of companies in Pittsburgh doing business with Germany...I would think that would be a good place to start.
N670UW From United States, joined Jul 2003, 1512 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1447 times:
Mr. Parker seems a bit displaced on his timeline of events.
Southwest did not begin service in Pittsburgh until May 2005, six months after US Airways ended service to LGW and FRA (along with about 170 additional flights).
The ACAA's push to land carriers such as WN and B6 was mostly in reponse to the service cuts by US Airways, not the other way around.
Steeler83 From United States, joined Feb 2006, 6120 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1378 times:
Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 10): I would think wooing LH would be a good idea...PIT/FRA should be a reasonable route with an A-330...there are a lot of companies in Pittsburgh doing business with Germany...I would think that would be a good place to start.
They tried that and it did not work. LH said that such a route was not feasible at the time. Unfortunately, PIT will be without desparately needed transatlantic service for a while it seems, until the international business market in PIT improves some over the next few years...
USPIT10L From United States, joined Mar 2006, 1535 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days ago) and read 1136 times:
Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6): I am hoping that the new base that Republic wants to establish at PIT will do very well and that PIT can get some of the feeder back through the service of Republic... just thoughts...
All the Republic base will do is cover existing service, after all, it is the former PSA maintenance base on the side of the former commuter terminal. PIT is simply not an attractive option for transatlantic service right now. BA and LH in particular, have much bigger, more lucrative fish to fry. Period. If you really want to play the blame game, I'd blame Allegheny County for not pushing for foreign carriers in the mid-90s,when there WAS sufficient demand for international travel here. In fact, US actually planned PIT-NRT service after the terminal opened in 1992, but had to shelve the proposed service when they couldn't restructure their aircraft deal with Boeing for 767s. Also, AMS and MAN were applied for from here at one point or another.
IADCRJ From United States, joined Mar 2005, 331 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1055 times:
Quoting MD90fan (Reply 3): Transatlantic destinations from PIT doesnt have enough O&D to make ir worthy, on top of that US has scrapped alot of its feeder/connecting ops (they once had flights to JAX,BHM and SBN to show how big their ops were).
Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 9): PIT is free to buy a 757 or two, hire some pilots and fly transatlantic. I wonder why they don't... are they afraid it will lose money?
With USAirways now operating 757's on secondary Trans Atlantic routes now, such this use would definately be suitable to effectively handle the O&D traffic out PIT to points like LGW, CDG, and FRA again.
Unfortunately, what probably is preventing US from doing so is the priority issue of the 757 fleet in terms of overseas service.
Vega From United States, joined Aug 2005, 1272 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1030 times:
Quoting IADCRJ (Reply 14): With USAirways now operating 757's on secondary Trans Atlantic routes now, such this use would definately be suitable to effectively handle the O&D traffic out PIT to points like LGW, CDG, and FRA again.
PIT-LGW = marginal at best - would require weight limitations.
PIT -CDG and PIT - FRA = out of range.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
Molykote From United States, joined Aug 2005, 1063 posts, RR: 9 Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1020 times:
Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 12): They tried that and it did not work. LH said that such a route was not feasible at the time. Unfortunately, PIT will be without desparately needed transatlantic service for a while it seems, until the international business market in PIT improves some over the next few years...
If it were desparately needed the market would support it (either with many customers or high fares).
Steeler83 From United States, joined Feb 2006, 6120 posts, RR: 11 Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 929 times:
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 13): Period. If you really want to play the blame game, I'd blame Allegheny County for not pushing for foreign carriers in the mid-90s,when there WAS sufficient demand for international travel here. In fact, US actually planned PIT-NRT service after the terminal opened in 1992, but had to shelve the proposed service when they couldn't restructure their aircraft deal with Boeing for 767s. Also, AMS and MAN were applied for from here at one point or another.
Well screw Allegheny County!!! As of June 1st I will no longer be a resident of Allegheny County. That is crooked politics at work out there apparently, and I am trying to land a transportation job out here in the Harrisburg/York/Lancaster area. The business market is much stronger out here than it is back home, at least as far as what my work-related ambitions are concerned anyway. Besides, I'll be within a 2 hour drive of airports that are doing very well (PHL, BWI, IAD). I know that MDT is nearby but that airport is losing pax to PHL and BWI, much higher O&D markets. I guess what Onorato and the ACAA are doing right now is too little too late then. Good job guys (whoever was in charge 10 years ago), you've screwed up international travel for years to come! I hope you all are happy... I hope that city does turn itself around; I really don't want to see it slowly bleed to death of self-inflicted wounds...
Could they have facilitated US with their deal for better 767s to do PIT-NRT? If they could have done it, then why in hell did they not. They apparently did not even consider what kind of significant impact that could have had on the local economy if the area were to land such service. Yes, they should have attempted to land LH, AF, others to the area; I am sure that they would have come then. If US would have gotten PIT-NRT, would any other airline from over there have been interested in doing service on that route, like CX or JL? Probably not, but again just a thought there. The rest is out of absolute discust at how the county screwed itself over...
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