Rpaillard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2858 times:
Well, it's not a new terminal but a new big boarding hall with 24 new gates.
These new gates are designed to accommodate new planes, including A380 with up to 3 jetways.
Hopefully, it will increase the average percentage of aircraft on contact. The situation regarding that is pretty bad at CDG, with tons of flight boarded/unboarded by bus, typically due to the collapse of the 2E.
It will also add capacity (up to 226 000 m²!) and efficiency, for example with flight within EU (Schengen). There will be a Schengen dedicate floor, while the other will be for International Flight.
AF will be a major customer for this new satellite.
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2892 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2698 times:
Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 4): The situation regarding that is pretty bad at CDG, with tons of flight boarded/unboarded by bus, typically due to the collapse of the 2E.
I transited 2E twice last summer when connecting from DL to AF, and then back from AF to DL. It wasn't pretty either time. On the first pass through, we had to go from 2E to 2B, and the maze of corridors, up some stairs and then down other stairs, etc., was exceptionally confusing. Then, when we arrived at the transfer bus station, it was tiny and absolutely crammed with people.
On our return, we went from 2B to 2E, which wasn't as bad in terms of getting to 2E, but then we were once again faced with these fairly confusing corridors. I did get to see the interior of the ticketing hall of 2E, which looks nice, but it seemed really dark.
The boarding area on the basement of 2E is comfortable enough, but moving a 777's worth of people via bus wasn't very well executed.
All things considered, though, I think it's remarkable that CDG gets to use this facility at all -- I think that if this had happened in the states, there'd be no way they would allow the first floor to be used the way that they're doing it at CDG. I can only imagine how it would contribute to the pandemonium that's already CDG to have those gates just completely wiped out. Hopefully they'll get it fixed soon!
Any word on whether they're planning to build something that resembles the original design (with the square windows), or is it going to be something entirely different?
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7353 posts, RR: 58 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2676 times:
Working at CDG is a daily challenge for AF as ADP is not very helpfull... AF is operating CDG as a HUB while it was exactely conceived for the opposite (except terminals 2E and 2F) : very few transit PAX, mostly point to point fast services.
With this new Satellite S3 and the reopening of the full 2E in 2008, AF should leave the terminals 2A and 2B and concentrate on 2C/2D/2E/2F, with more than 85% of the flights connected directly to the terminals/Satellite, against only 50% today.
Jouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 446 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2337 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9): Terminal 2B, I don't know ....probably some airlines using CDG1, but the Terminal 2A should be used exclusively by STAR ALLIANCE partners (LH, SQ, etc ...)
I don't think CDG 2A will be used by * Alliance partners, as they are supposed to move to CDG1 according to a memorandum of understanding signed with Aéroports de Paris (ADP). I do hope that OS does not move to CDG1, as it would mean moving between terminals according to each flight during the day between CDG and VIE, which are all code-shared between OS and AF.
I believe CDG2A and CDG2B will be used by OW airlines. BA is already in 2B and AA in 2A.
Jouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 446 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2337 times:
Some additional information from a 348 pages document submitted by ADP to the French Financial Markets Authority :
The overall trend is to move from 47.1 million passengers today at CDG, in order to reach 66.5 million in 2010, and 100 million sometime around 2020-2025. A summary of the most important investments currently planned at CDG:
- CDG VAL landside monorail line 1 : opens end of 2006
- CDG 1 : after the completion of phase 1 one of the renovation last January, an additional one fourth of the terminal will be renovated each year, with phase 4 completed at the end of 2008
- S3 satellite : opening starts in June 2007 - completed in November 2007 - capacity : 8.5 million passengers
- A380 jetways : 11 available in 2008 in CDG 1 (2), 2A, 2C, 2E and S3
- 3 additional remote stands for widebodies (LIMA zone)
- CDG 2E : reconstruction of the roof of the boarding area : completed in March 2008
- CDG 2G : regional aircraft terminal - opens June 2008 - capacity : 3 million passengers
- extension of the PX car park - from 2007 to 2010
- TBE : Integrated baggage sorter for CDG "East" : 2E, 2F and S3 - opens gradually from end of 2006 to 2010
- S4 satellite : opening scheduled for 2012 - capacity : 7.2 million passengers
- LISA : airside monorail connecting the 2E isthmus building, S3 and S4
- CDG 4 : opening starts in 2016 - capacity (upon completion of the terminal): 25 million passengers
The really new piece of information is the creation of a new, full size terminal, not only a satellite (ie boarding area) for an existing terminal.
Details concerning the integration of the VAL network, including its extension to CDG 2G, remain sketchy.
Overall, a nice strategic vision and masterplan , which nevertheless require a hard nosed implementation with a good focus and greater attention to detail than in the past. In addition, moving S4 forward to 2010 would definitely be useful.
Jouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 446 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2331 times:
Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 1): Does anyone have an update on what's going on with 2E? What's the timeline to getting the roof finished and the boarding pier reopened?
Call for tenders for 2E
"Castel and Fromaget, a subsidiary of the Fayat group, in association with Laubeuf, a subsidiary of Irish group CPH, a company specialized in canopies, have just won the call for tenders for the deconstruction and rebuilding of the steel structure of the pier of CDG2E, for an amount of 38 million euros. The two companies will have 20 months, from the official notification of the contract by Aéroport of Paris, probably at the end of May, to complete the work on the CDG2E pier. The initial form of the work, in Moorish arch, will be preserved with an identical appearance and similar interior environment, although more open to light due to the transparency of the newly constructed work ... Some figures : net savings of weight above 80% - compared with the existing roof, for an amount of 10 million euros ; total cost of the work is estimated 150 million euros"
Jouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 446 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2314 times:
And now, for some personal opinion .
I would say that both AF and ADP are doing a good job, indeed a great job, when trying to cope with the 2E roof collapse. Although transfers from the 2E remote boarding area to other terminals are anything but painless, and although transfer passenger experience at CDG could still be improved, I don't think any other European airport would be able to cope with the loss of the jetways of a terminal which should represent, three years after its initial opening, about 10 million passengers yearly.
The fact that CDG continues to operate without major problems and that ADP and AF traffic continues to grow at CDG, despite the challenges both organizations face, is a tribute to the dedication and work of ADP and AF staff, who are working every day in a difficult environment, without the resources to have a quick and easy fix to improve the experience of passengers, especially at times of misconnect or irregular operations. That they may be sometimes overwrought is understandable, although this, hopefully, will improve as new infrastructure is delivered. In time, CDG can probably achieve its goal of being the best large airport in Western Europe.
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7353 posts, RR: 58 Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2272 times:
Quoting Jouy31 (Reply 10): I don't think CDG 2A will be used by * Alliance partners, as they are supposed to move to CDG1
I don't see how they are supposed to move to CDG1 considering the fact that most of the Syar Alliance members are already operating from CDG1 (LH, SQ, BMI, SAS, SAA, UA, US, TG, RG).
Before 2E collapsed, AF had already "evacuated" the terminal 2A. No AF flights was operating anymore from there and this Terminal was indeed, supposed to be reserved for Star Alliance partners. This has been requested for a long time by Star's leaders LH and UA.
Those pans were changed after 2E was closed and AF returned some flights from 2A.
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3829 posts, RR: 73 Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2239 times:
Quoting Jouy31 (Reply 13): The fact that CDG continues to operate without major problems and that ADP and AF traffic continues to grow at CDG, despite the challenges both organizations face, is a tribute to the dedication and work of ADP and AF staff, who are working every day in a difficult environment, without the resources to have a quick and easy fix to improve the experience of passengers, especially at times of misconnect or irregular operations.
Jouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 446 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2195 times:
Well, you can see where S3 fits in today. Put up a carbon copy of S3, parallel and to the East of S3: this is S4. 2G should be next, to the East of the Southern half of S4. I haven't seen any information about its connection to the VAL network, but I do hope it is still planned.
Plans do change. In an investor day presentation by AF (2002 or 2001), made by Pascal de Izaguirre, then AF Executive Vice President, Ground Operations, it was still called S3N and located to the East of the Northern half of S4 ... And it was linked to the VAL landside network.
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 872 posts, RR: 21 Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2127 times:
Quoting Jouy31 (Reply 13): The fact that CDG continues to operate without major problems and that ADP and AF traffic continues to grow at CDG, despite the challenges both organizations face, is a tribute to the dedication and work of ADP and AF staff, who are working every day in a difficult environment, without the resources to have a quick and easy fix to improve the experience of passengers, especially at times of misconnect or irregular operations. That they may be sometimes overwrought is understandable, although this, hopefully, will improve as new infrastructure is delivered. In time, CDG can probably achieve its goal of being the best large airport in Western Europe.
Jouy, you are definitely an optimist!
Just used 4 times CDG in the last 15 days:
April 29th: AF461 from CCS: we arrived on a very remote stand (maybe these new LIMA stands?), after a long taxi. And waited more than 30 minutes to get the stairs! And we were on schedule (maybe 10/15 minutes late due to the long taxi). Transfer by bus. To enter the terminal building we had to climb stairs in a poor state of maintenance (moreover they are not protected from the rain).
May 3th: AF 164 to SGN: boarding by bus. At this time (sched departure 23.15, there were many jetways free). The stairs were in a worst state of maintenance than the previous one.
May 13th: AF 169 from SGN: Aerobus. The first Aerobus (at the front of the plane, with C passengers), left quite some time after the second (at the back), to take more Y passengers. Some C passengers were complaining of this excessive wait.
May 15th: AF 460 to CCS: Lounge so crowded I did not stay, there was not a place to sit. Boarding by jetway !! What a pleasure! Very long taxi, and 20 minutes queuing to take-off. At 11:30 in the morning. And CDG has 4 runways!
To complete the picture add:
- the passport check when exiting the jetway for both flights, so you have to queue both for passport control, one there, and another one at the official control booth,
- taking a taxi in 2F/ total disorder, most taxis did not accept credit cards, so it was a circus a some passengers had only credit cards to pay,
- arriving with a taxi in 2F: there is not clear parking spot, so you are disembarked in the middle of the road (and in the rain), and you have to be careful to reach safely the walkway with your luggage,
- finding the post office in 2F. Not any indication on the map of the terminal. The information booth says there is only one post- office, between 2A/B and 2C/D. Very convenient when you are in E or F! Isn't it possible to transfer this post office in the train station, where there is a lot of space available; it would be more centrally located? No indication of the letterboxes on the map.
- queuing on the left entrance of the 2F/ right pier (10/15 minutes due to safety control. Arrives one guy with a cart full of food supplies for a restaurant in the international area. Passes the entire queue, and passes all his supplies in a scanner (not used at this time for passenger control). There forces the cart into the magnetic frame (forces because obviously there are some millimeters lacking to pass freely).
All this mess in the middle of passengers waiting for the safety control seems really unprofessional. But it is normal, as confirmed to me by the immigration officer.
I admit that a good part of the problems comes from the conception of the airport (I guess the "genial" architect did not find what is an passenger friendly airport, as he used different concepts for each and every terminal), but some things could certainly be improved.
Really every time I arrive in CDG and see the first image we give of the country to visitors, I am ashamed.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)