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VirginAmerica To CO "stop Running From Competition  
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9668 times:

Virgin America is not holding any punches.


http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...story/05-10-2006/0004358775&EDATE=

Also, Mr. Arnold Schwarznegger wants the DOT to approve Virgin America's application soon.

99 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9627 times:
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I don't think that CO is scared of Virgin America. If anyone should be worried it should be UA, and I'm pretty sure they're not to worried. I bet you'll see Ted on every Virgin America route out of SFO. What would you rater have, a new upstart LCC based in SFO with a limited route network, or Ted which has a bigger network, plus allows you to flow into the other United destinations?


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17508 posts, RR: 45
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9592 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
What would you rater have, a new upstart LCC based in SFO with a limited route network, or Ted which has a bigger network, plus allows you to flow into the other United destinations?

Ted does have a network, but a wet paper bag has a better inflight product than Ted so it wouldn't be very hard to one-up the competition there.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9539 times:

Or they could throw UA premium service on the routes? Oh wait, VA is starting in the transcon markets, so technically UA alread has.

User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9539 times:

Eventhough Continental is throwing quite a fit--Virgin America won't encroach on any of their serious territory for a while. Besides the first routes to NYC--I doubt they'll be competing directly with CO for a while. I'm sure they won't serve IAH/HOU in their first round of service--if history down here is an indicator.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9488 times:

So why is CO raising SUCH a stink ????

Other than supposedly Richard Branson being involved with it..............


User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9488 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
I bet you'll see Ted on every Virgin America route out of SFO.

United Mainline, United PS and Ted all on the same route? Why haven't they thought of that on Algonquin Road yet? Then UA would really be the carrier they say they are.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9488 times:
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Karma is a bitch! I am sure BA is laughing about this and remembering VS's campaign to stop the BA/AA code share.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9415 times:

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 5):
So why is CO raising SUCH a stink ????

Well there was another thread speculating on the future of CO and UA merging. So, I guess CO would be concerned if they plan on keeping SFO as a hub. All rumors, of corse.  spin 



John@SFO
User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9378 times:
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Maybe CO is afraid of losing their feed on to Virgin Atlantic's flights to LHR with VirginAmerica.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
I don't think that CO is scared of Virgin America.

I agree. I think that CO wants the US Government to enforce the law as it is written. Im pretty sure that the D.O.T. already knows that.

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 8):
Well there was another thread speculating on the future of CO and UA merging.

Thats the first Ive ever heard of that!

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 5):
Other than supposedly Richard Branson being involved with it..............

Foreign ownership of an airline, the last time I checked, is illegal. Thats why CO is saying something now, I guess.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9322 times:
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I am sure other carriers will soon be raising a stink as well.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9322 times:

I'd like to like Virgin America or Virgin anything, but overall I find them a bit obnoxious and misleading - "4 Engines 4 Long Haul", a snipe at Boeing, yet they were quite happy with 747's for a long time, and "No Way BA/AA".

If CO is ticked off about anything, it's Virgin's ability to fly from LHR which CO cannot do. Level playing field? Get rid of that ridiculous antiquated Bermuda II which BA and Virgin love before a Brit can own an airline.

If Virgin America can create a product and customer loyalty and make a profit, good for them. But this is the United States domestic market - there are more ghosts of dead airlines than there are in all of Disney's haunted houses combined!!  ghost 



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9301 times:

San Francisco will be one busy little airport when Virgin America starts flying. It already ranks in the top ten in the world.

User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9274 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
yet they were quite happy with 747's for a long time,

Could that possibly be because 747's have 4 engines?


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9237 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
don't think that CO is scared of Virgin America. If anyone should be worried it should be UA, and I'm pretty sure they're not to worried.

I'm "pretty sure" you are dead wrong. Virgin America will have lower costs, except for oil, than Southwest. And Virgin is proposing the operate as a transcontinental carrier where both United and Continental are huge players.

Continental is simply trying to save themselves from competition just like American is trying to do in Dallas with the whole Love Field mess. Continental is infamous within the airline industry for their eagerness to litigate. With Virgin set to enter the market with a superior product right off the bat, Continental's competition complaint is simply a way of getting the government involved to slow down the process.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9220 times:

I don't understand the situation. Why is their an ownership problem? Doesn't the law state that you can't have more than 49% foreign onwership or something of the sort, and such is the case with Virgin American?


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 16):
Why is their an ownership problem?

I believe its a trust issue. And this will be the first time the F.A.A/D.O.T. will allow foreign ownership of an airline. So its gotta be the trust issue at stake here.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9136 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
And this will be the first time the F.A.A/D.O.T. will allow foreign ownership of an airline

It's not so much as foreign ownership as foreign investment. The people with the vast majority of the shares and voting rights will be American citizens. The majority of the company is not foreign owned, but American owned.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17508 posts, RR: 45
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9136 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
And this will be the first time the F.A.A/D.O.T

Didn't SK buy a portion of CO in the 80s/90s? And weren't there some shares swapped early on in the Star Alliance? I don't think this is the first time a US airline will be partially owned by a foreign source.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9124 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 16):
don't understand the situation. Why is their an ownership problem? Doesn't

Ownership laws of airlines were enacted in the 1940's (give or take) to prevent a foreign airline from having control over U.S. routes and prices....a problem that would not exist today because of the size of the industry and the deregulated environment in which it operates.

Today the laws are used as a way of preventing cash-rich foreign airlines from providing capital to cash-starved US carriers, potentially bankrupting (again) those airlines that don't receive such investments.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8951 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
I'm "pretty sure" you are dead wrong. Virgin America will have lower costs, except for oil, than Southwest. And Virgin is proposing the operate as a transcontinental carrier where both United and Continental are huge players.

Continental is simply trying to save themselves from competition just like American is trying to do in Dallas with the whole Love Field mess. Continental is infamous within the airline industry for their eagerness to litigate. With Virgin set to enter the market with a superior product right off the bat, Continental's competition complaint is simply a way of getting the government involved to slow down the process.

Virgin America will be nothing more than a fly buzzing around someones head for CO---at least at outset. No FF base--just a superior product. The only routes that CO has to worry about are SFO-NY, SFO-CLE, SFO-IAH/HOU and I doubt the latter two will come online at the outset anyway. I'm sure they don't want added competition--but your analogy is waaaaaay off base. Love Field and this issue are loosely analagous at best. Besides--CO has done a decent job coexisting in the transcon market with the likes of JetBlue and everybody else that I doubt seriously they are losing thaaaat much sleep over Virgin. Replace Continental in your response with United---then we are on the same page.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8876 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
Didn't SK buy a portion of CO in the 80s/90s?

Yes they did. It was part of the codeshare agreement they had agreed on. They owned enough of it to get a seat on the board of directors.



Fly Delta!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21634 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8860 times:

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):
Maybe CO is afraid of losing their feed on to Virgin Atlantic's flights to LHR with VirginAmerica.

CO already code-shares on VS SFO-LHR, so I don't see why many would fly via EWR if they could go direct (and there's also BA).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePetmbro From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8852 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
I don't think this is the first time a US airline will be partially owned by a foreign source.

BA use to own 25% of the old US Air until 1997. I personally don't think Virgin will be that big a deal for CO but UA definetely should watch out. Currently out of the SFO area (OAK) are WN and B6, so adding another LCC to the market will only draw passengers away from UA.



"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
25 Luv2fly : Also KL and NW as well.
26 Jetdeltamsy : That pretty much says it all. Why is Southwest so successful? Because of their high quality product. Why is Singapore Airlines so successful? Because
27 Swadispatcher : I'm kinda surprised that CO has been the only one so far..
28 9252fly : As much as I appreciate new upstarts offering consumers additional choices,I still have a bit of a problem with the ability of just about anyone with
29 Dutchjet : Good point - CO is taking the lead with this issue, they simply want the law enforced as it is written and intended. I am surprised that other US car
30 Jetdeltamsy : IFE sells. Period. Virgin Atlantic's seat pitch is pretty tight. How they get people into the seats really doesn't matter as long as they do it. Thei
31 Greaser : CO to VirginAmerica, "Get a license" Exactly...all this "VirginAmerica is going to slaughter the airlines" is bull. I'd say wait a few years before yo
32 Corey07850 : I guess no one really noticed this: "SOURCE Virgin America" The article mentions CO twice, then goes on for 6 paragraphs about how great the VA produc
33 Par13del : Let me ask an off beat question. It's regularly stated that the US has too much capacity and if not for their Chapt.11 laws, the excess would have bee
34 Juventus : Good one Greaser, I like that.......
35 DfwRevolution : Overcapacity exist in every industry, and as a matter of fact, nearly all U.S. airlines are flying with mostly full aircraft. WN has one of the lower
36 Par13del : DfwRevolution are you saying that WN has no competition? There are numerous LCC's but none as large as WN, how would allowing an additional player aid
37 Post contains images Greaser : I know for sure that AA did AT LEAST try out portable DVD players, so did UA. AS has em for passengers (last time i checked, which was 2004). LoL now
38 Wjcandee : Virgin Atlantic does a nice job. Richard Branson is probably the world's coolest billionaire, and an all-around great guy. However, Richard and Virgin
39 Wjcandee : They're starting with 34 A320s aircraft, according to their web site. In comparison, Airtran presently has about 26 737s and 86 717s, which means tha
40 Atmx2000 : You think foreign airlines are the only source of cash? Where is VirginAmerica getting its domestic bucks from? The reality is that foreign airlines
41 Post contains images LawnDart : Check out the comments about Virgin Atlantic on Airlinequality.com...apparently, Virgin's product isn't as consistent as their own self-hype: That's
42 S12PPL : I would rather have the upstart LCC, which will no doubt offer better service and price than UA, the mainline airline still struggling... Except that
43 Jacobin777 : wouldn't that be the majority of CO's SFO base? actually not, CO has CONSISTENTLY been rated one of the top airlines in the United States/North Ameri
44 Aviator27 : The law pertaining to ownership of airlines in the United States says that a foreign entity may not own more than 49% of a airline AND no more than 25
45 Drerx7 : Jetdeltamsy is negating the fact that loyal OnePassers are not going to defect to Virgin America's few startup routes for a more savvy tv in the seat.
46 Jetdeltamsy : It is my contention that no US legacy carrier is consistent enough in its service delivery. All US legacy carriers have cut costs so much that when a
47 Atmx2000 : Let's not forget that CO's been doing the bitching about Virgin Nigeria as well. I just wonder if they will take the lead with regards to bitching ab
48 F9Animal : Is it me, or is it bad timing to start a new airline?
49 Bebe2006 : Are you kidding? Investing in airlines irrespective of introductioni time line is high risk! Love Branson and the brand he has created...free trade,le
50 Db373 : CO isn't the only airline raising a stink. Both DL and NW have filed support for CO's motions to the DOT, and DL I believe has filed separate complai
51 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I guess that's your opinion to which you are entitled to... CO still functions basically as a "legacy" carrier, with meals, etc......if they got righ
52 Scotron11 : Of course politics is involved especially after the flap over the Dubai based firm trying to purchase the rights to American sea-ports. Anything to d
53 Ikramerica : Basically, CO doesn't want the foreign ownership and control regulations to be softened because it might create a situation where to remain competiti
54 Wjcandee : Getting the existing airlines out of the way isn't a "political problem", it's a business problem. Unless you mean that you'll change the bankruptcy
55 MasseyBrown : It's a little hard to keep up with this fight. VA's latest filing with the DOT is redacted and refers to redacted portions of CO's last filing. As Law
56 Post contains images BAtriple7 : That is the plain truth. VS started off competing in a market against one of the biggest carriers in the world - BA. And they succeeded. Their produc
57 Par13del : Foreign ownership / control is the big beef with CO, and since the laws are on the books I guess CO has the moral high ground by just sticking to the
58 Challiday : I agree, the funny thing is Virgin Atlantic still use 747's saw them at Gatwick just this past weekend.
59 Nkops : There hasn't been a good time in years unfortunately.... I wonder who Branson will blame if this fails?? He seems like the type that would blame evey
60 DAYflyer : I hope CO kicks Virgin America's butt.
61 Juventus : Of all the majors, CO is the one with the least West Coast presence. I think you mean United.
62 IADLHR : I think this whole issue is moot , dead as a door nail and a complete waste of energy tto even talk about. There is no way at all,under current condit
63 Luv2fly : And it was "Virgin" that objected to the hook up of BA/AA code share. In fact the upraor killed the code share. It is coming back to bite them where
64 Airzim : Its funny, nobody has brought up the two other direct parallels with Virgin startups, mainly Virgin Express and Virgin Blue. Virgin Express has been a
65 Post contains links BCAL : I brought this up - see Reply 16 in the thread Virgin America 1st A/C! (by Timboflier215 May 4 2006 in Civil Aviation)
66 Aviator27 : A lot of American jobs are being shipped overseas. Some companies do it just to avoid paying taxes. Others do it in a bid to reduce costs. I am not sa
67 USADreamliner : I'm so tired of Richard Branson... 20 years ago, fine.Wow, an airline named Virgin.Scandal. VG vs BA, LHR vs LGW, blah,blah,blah. After 20 years, c'mo
68 Okie : I guess what I see in the Virgin America SFO operation it will be a feeder for Virgin Pacific. Then when the Virgin America traverses back across the
69 Kaddyuk : Thats an airbus slogan... Why? The problem with alot of start ups is that no one ever hears about them for years... Cant you not see that SRB is clea
70 Jetdeltamsy : As long as Virgin America complies with foreign ownership and influence rules, there is no ready to deny them an operating service. Period.
71 Par13del : "As long as Virgin America complies with foreign ownership and influence rules, there is no ready to deny them an operating service. Period." I though
72 Kaddyuk : All is fair in Love, War and Business...
73 IADLHR : At no time did I ever say that the US would deny the application, they will just drag and drag their feet on the application and stall. If SRB and oth
74 BCAL : I agree. And for the doubters, do you think that Virgin America, with no licence as yet, a few dozen aircraft on order and a handful of employees, is
75 Airzim : You didn't get it. Think for a second. We're talking profit and loss, cost vs revenue. This has nothing to do with being a "darn good airline to fly
76 Post contains images Wjcandee : Please remove stick from butt. That (and the other nice things I wrote, about which you also complained) were pleasantries directed at Branson, in or
77 Post contains images BCAL : You have nothing to apologise for, and I am not complaining about the nice things you wrote, which I am sure SRB (if he reads them) would appreciate
78 Onetogo : Anyone know what Virgin America's ATC callsign will be?
79 Junction : Bingo! That, and the LHR access issue is all CO cares about.
80 UAL777 : I think Virgin will get stomped by the U.S. legacies. UA at SFO, WN at OAK, everyone and their mothers are doing transcons as well. I for one hope th
81 AirframeAS : Dont forget to add AS & WN in the mix too. There wont be one!
82 Luv2fly : IMHO - They are not all going to complain at the same time, when each airline complains seperately it will slow down the whole process and take all t
83 Post contains images Greaser : Phantom
84 COSPN : Here are the the 3 Problems CO has with VS America 1. No CO acess to LHR 2. No CO acess to LHR 3. No CO acess to LHR
85 Post contains images UA772IAD : Question about this: I guess it relates to the foreign ownership dilemma- if VirginAm (VA is what I will call it for the rest of the post), cannot su
86 ANNOYEDFA : I hope they never start. We don't need another Jetblue, Airtran, Southwest, and so on flying around.
87 Luv2fly : Come on you should like these two airlines they are both unionized!
88 Juventus : Anybody have anything to say about Mr. Arnold Schwarznegger backing Virgin America.
89 AirframeAS : Since I dont reside in California and that he isnt my governor, I have to say: PATHENTIC!
90 UKCO : Virgin seem to have now developed a knack of trying to break into the most difficult market to get into. Here, they tried internet at the wrong time,
91 Simpilicity : I think all the US legacies r scared of Virgin America. Unlike other LCC's in the US, the Virgin name has a high profile not just in aviation. Plus,
92 Drerx7 : The Virgin name alone will not mean enough to really threaten the airlines--besides--the Virgin brand is not really known or highly regarded like tha
93 Luv2fly : High profile? Not unless you live in one of the cities that they actally fly out of, other than that no profile. Sorry tough road ahead of them.
94 Simpilicity : ??? What do u mean on this one? How can anyone object to this?
95 BCAL : I just wonder how much SRB contributed to his electoral campaign, in return for The Terminator to back his application. Slush funds aside, I think it
96 Atmx2000 : Hmm, could a US Virgin brand airline coordinating traffic with a foreign Virgin brand airline indicate that the foreign Virgin brand airline has cont
97 Kaddyuk : Well, that is a real shame... but then again, the tens of thousands of passengers that choose to fly us every day cant be wrong!
98 Simpilicity : Let's face it, US legacy carriers are stuffed, it's just a matter of how long they can hang on. Sooner or later the US will have to open up their avi
99 Drerx7 : I'm not sure if I follow you, could you explain what you mean by stuffed? IN terms of the US market--there is overcapacity, which is good for the con
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