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ValuJet Crash - 10 Years Ago Today  
User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 870 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13817 times:

To me, I thought it was even a lot longer ago than 10 years...but today marks the 10-year anniversary of the sad crash of a ValuJet DC-9 into the Everglades killing 100 people. Every time I am on approach to FLL or MIA and I peer out my window, I think about those poor souls...

...any thoughts on this incident are appreciated.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13794 times:
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I was just thinking about 592 on my way into work this morning. I can't believe it's been ten years. I googled Valujet this morning, and there were a couple interesting articles in news papers this morning. It the Star-Telegram they highlight some changes to the airline system since 592 went down. They include;

All chemical oxygen generators and oxidizers were banned as cargo on passenger aircraft beginning May 23, 1996.

_Fire detection and suppression systems were required for certain cargo holds in all U.S. airliners as of March 19, 2001.

_All cargo aircraft are now required to have fire detection systems and a way to shut off air flow to the cargo compartment.

_ More than 3,480 aircraft were retrofitted for these fire systems at a cost of $300 million. Dozens of older aircraft were retired.

_FAA now has 124 hazardous materials inspectors, compared with 14 in 1996.

_In 2006, FAA will inspect about 3,100 air carriers and 6,100 shipping companies for compliance with hazardous materials rules. Violators can be fined $32,500 per violation.

_New airlines operate under increased FAA safety supervision during their first five years.

And I read a good statement from one of the victims family members.

George Griner of Benbrook, Texas, who lost his son Mark in the crash, said: ''I like to think that Mark was part of helping save a lot of people over a number of years. To me, that's a great contribution."

592 is something that will always hang above AirTran, but as en employee I know that we have moved so very far away from what Valujet was. I hope that some of the victims families find some solace in the fact that due to this tragedy, there have been so many rule changes that many more lives have been saved.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 13761 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
592 is something that will always hang above AirTran

Perhaps for employee's but I can gaurentee you that 99% of PAX never make the Valuejet-AirTran connection.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9739 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 13761 times:

The oldest DGR book I could find in my library dates from 1998. UN ID 3356 is indicated with a "change" triangle here.

Oxygen generators have been DGR before the Valuejet crash happened and if only one of those morons involved in the handling of the consignment had only the slightest idea of what he was doing, better, a valid DGR training, this accident would not have happened at all. It would certainly not have happened in Europe BTW. Even if the Oxygen generators had been properly packed and just shipped without DGR certificate,most likely would not have happened. They shipped the things loose in a box. Idiots.

I remember my reaction when the cause of the accident became known and that was exactly that - give proper training to everybody involved and air transport is a lot safer than it is already.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13197 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 13702 times:

I remember comming back to my house mid-afternoon that Saturday and turning on the TV to CNN and seeing about this crash. It was terrifying to see what may have happened. A full sized commercial aircraft and it's occupants reduced to tiny shreds buried in high swamp grass and mud. I remember the attempts to get to the site and attempt to recover the bodies, the recorder boxes and some of the remains of the aircraft being a horrible experience upon the workers there. Then we found out it's source from the O2 Generators in the cargo area and just in shock of the obscene stupidity of how this crash happened.
Yes, we did learn from this terrible accident but at a high cost that never should have been paid if some common sense was used.


User currently offlineGeo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 13690 times:

The valujet crash is another reminder to all of us that direct human factors contribute to most air crashes. We can only learn from these mistakes and hope that through better training and working practices we can prevent such events happening again.


Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 13637 times:

I diddnt really grasp what was going on as I was 8 at the time, but I was watching an episode of COPS about a month ago, and they were in Miami/Dade and they got a call of an a/c down. Little did the officer know, he responded to the valujet crash. He was the, IIRC third officer on scene and was actually helping look for survivors. Sadly, we now know that was fruitless.

My condolences to all affected.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13611 times:

My gosh, ten years? I remember that vividly because I was at my cousins wedding reception, when my dad heard about it and told me.

RIP Valuejet 592.


User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1338 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 13605 times:

I was watching a football game when they broke in with the news that an airplane had gone down in South Florida. My first thought was Valujet because they were running such a shoddy operation. It's 10 years later now and I think Airtran has become a good airline.

User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13528 times:

Am I correct in my thinking that the aircraft involved in the ValuJet crash was previously operated by BD, and that it was the last DC9 to leave the BD fleet?

I remember hearing something along those lines at the time altough I cannot be sure. Can anyone either confirm or deny this?

 scratchchin 



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13474 times:

No, That certain aircraft came from DL... Formerly N1281L. They did have a couple of DC9s from BD, but that wasn't one of them. Also, IIRC, N904VJ seemed to be the only DC9 in the fleet that didn't have the black under the windscreen.

The truth is, while there was a lot of stupidity involved in the crash, there was a lot of stupidity involved in the entire operation. Think about it, N904VJ had 8 maintenance related air-turnbacks. That should be an eye-opener right there in itself.


User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13465 times:

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 2):
Perhaps for employee's but I can gaurentee you that 99% of PAX never make the Valuejet-AirTran connection.

I think you are 100% correct.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13465 times:
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Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 2):
Perhaps for employee's but I can gaurentee you that 99% of PAX never make the Valuejet-AirTran connection.

They don't have to Google does it for them. Google ValuJet and the fourth listing is Airtran Airways homepage.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineN501US From United States of America, joined May 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13455 times:
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May they all rest in peace.

The Palm Beach Post ran an article on the crash this morning. They had a little time capsule in one column decsrbing ValuJet and how they "became" AirTran. Of course it failed to mention that since becoming AirTran they have completely changed their fleet, have experienced consistent profits, and a good safety record.

I should know better than to read any article in a newspaper regarding the airline industry and expect to come away with the "facts.



Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2174 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13412 times:

The articles all sound like the same AP article that's making the rounds today... from the USAToday:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-05-11-valujet-crash_x.htm

- Travis


User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13396 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
Oxygen generators have been DGR before the Valuejet crash happened and if only one of those morons involved in the handling of the consignment had only the slightest idea of what he was doing, better, a valid DGR training, this accident would not have happened at all.

Yes, the oxygen generators were "dangerous goods" before the accident. However, it wasn't just a lack of training that contributed to this accident. IIRC, former Valujet CEO Lewis Jordan testified in the NTSB's "Sunshine Hearing" that company-owned hazardous materials (hazmat) transported on company aircraft weren't subject to the dangerous goods carriage restrictions.

So there was a culture of ignoring the regulations - apparently also at the air carriers Jordan worked at prior to ValuJet - when in came to carrying "comat" (company material) even if it was hazmat.

I haven't been able to understand why he thought that way.



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently onlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 737 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13377 times:

I remember that day clearly.

I was walking to the bus stop to take me to the terminal at the MIA employee parking lot. In those days the lot was always very full and if you had an afternoon shift you had to park on the extreme south side of the lot.

I saw the plane take off right over my head. It stood out to me because this was the first time I had seen a Value Jet plane flying. I thought to myself that the white, light blue and yellow paint job looked classy, but the cartoon airplane somewhat cheapened it.

By the time I got to the terminal and began working my shift, the Customer Service Manager was coming up behind each agent and whispering in their ear that a plane had crashed, but it was not one of ours and we must remain calm.

I have also been to the Value Jet memorial off the Tamiami Trail in the Everglades. It is a very simple group of pillars made from concrete blocks. I like the design but it would be more fitting to have it reconstructed with stone or marble. I would definately contribute to an effort to upgrade the memorial.
The last time I stopped by the memorial on my way home from bike riding in Shark Valley it had been vandalized.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5331 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13275 times:

From the AP Article: "Aviation experts say the ValuJet crash — coupled with the fuel tank explosion over Long Island Sound that destroyed a TWA Boeing 747 on July 16, 1996, killing 230 people — put a much-needed focus on chronic safety problems."

Riiiiiight. "chronic safety problems". Riiiiiiight.

Let's review: when a reporter wants to make a point and make it sound authoritative, he/she writes, "Experts say".

Idiots.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9739 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13253 times:

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 15):



Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 15):

Yes, the oxygen generators were "dangerous goods" before the accident. However, it wasn't just a lack of training that contributed to this accident. IIRC, former Valujet CEO Lewis Jordan testified in the NTSB's "Sunshine Hearing" that company-owned hazardous materials (hazmat) transported on company aircraft weren't subject to the dangerous goods carriage restrictions.

So there was a culture of ignoring the regulations - apparently also at the air carriers Jordan worked at prior to ValuJet - when in came to carrying "comat" (company material) even if it was hazmat.

I haven't been able to understand why he thought that way.

I hope they put him away for criminal neglicence and I would not understand why if that was not done. People go to jail for lesser things, especially in the USA and some states, FL is one of them. After I posted here, the German AERO June issue was in the mail and they had an article about the crash. They printed a facsimile of the "shipping ticket", no 01041 - item 1 Qty 5 "Oxy cannisters" faulty - although this could read "empty" as well.

BTW - I would not call this a "culture" when basic safety standards are ignored in a company. That is the opposite of culture, whatever you want to name it.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2174 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13233 times:

Jesus - do we have to go down this road again? The NTSB report is detailed, clear, and contains all the relevant factors if anybody wants to read it. But to hash out here the finger pointing and who specifically was at blame, when nearly all the accusations are based on half-truths, biases, or at best selective memories is ignorant and ridiculous.

It was an AWFUL, HORRIFIC crash that could have been easily prevented - with plenty of blame to go around - and it changed the industry forever. Discuss it smartly without the slanted opinions (on both sides!), or move on... it's a dead horse that's been beaten.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13166 times:
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Quoting Travatl (Reply 19):
Jesus - do we have to go down this road again? The NTSB report is detailed, clear, and contains all the relevant factors if anybody wants to read it. But to hash out here the finger pointing and who specifically was at blame, when nearly all the accusations are based on half-truths, biases, or at best selective memories is ignorant and ridiculous.

It was an AWFUL, HORRIFIC crash that could have been easily prevented - with plenty of blame to go around - and it changed the industry forever. Discuss it smartly without the slanted opinions (on both sides!), or move on... it's a dead horse that's been beaten.

I agree but let the people have thier say. Not everything is "truly" covered in the NTSB reports.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2174 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13147 times:

Discussion regarding facts is one thing. Opining on hearsay or bias is another.

User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2597 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13123 times:

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 9):
Am I correct in my thinking that the aircraft involved in the ValuJet crash was previously operated by BD, and that it was the last DC9 to leave the BD fleet?

I wondered that at the time, too. A number of British Midland DC9s went to Valujet, including the last one to leave the BD fleet. I remember going to see the last BD DC9 flight at MME, as it was a special EMA-MME-EMA flight. It was a memorable occasion, with the original BD DC9 Captain and First Officer present.


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13102 times:

If the ValueJet crash is "hanging over" AirTran, then it is not having much effect as AirTran is a fairly healthy airline and is doing very well.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12954 times:

Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 22):
I wondered that at the time, too. A number of British Midland DC9s went to Valujet, including the last one to leave the BD fleet. I remember going to see the last BD DC9 flight at MME, as it was a special EMA-MME-EMA flight. It was a memorable occasion, with the original BD DC9 Captain and First Officer present.

One of the ex-BD birds still had a British Midland Cargo sticker stuck on the inside of the inner door of the front cargo bin when I worked @ FL more than 6 years back.


25 Beertrucker : Yeah it was tem years today. i won't forget i was working for valujet at the time. I won't go into too much about it but our gate agents did have to t
26 LH459 : Wow, 10 years already...A high school classmate of mine died in that crash.
27 Post contains images Ptharris : Nor do I. Could someone explain how the two are connected? Living up here in the Pacific Northwest, I hardly know anything about AirTran other than t
28 Post contains images Beertrucker : Airtran Airlines and Valuejet Airways mergerd under the banner Airtran Airways after the crash. that is before pics. this is after pics. then how we
29 Post contains links OttoPylit : 110 people, to be exact. Very frustrating, considering that only 40 bodies were recovered. The rest were swallowed up and sit somewhere in like 100 f
30 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : While I will agree that those DC9s were old and needed a LOT of work, I still miss them. AirTran's DC-9 carried me on my very first flight ever, and w
31 Post contains links AvConsultant : Are you sure??? What football game would be on in May? The J7 contract maintenace provider Sabre Tech (out of business due to neglegence in 592) was
32 Airlinelover : My thoughts: I was on valujet a few days before the crash. My grandpa died the day I flew on them.. the service I recieved was excellent, and I hope t
33 Wjcandee : You're kidding, right? I hope? The poster was saying that the reporter was suggesting that ValuJet, *unlike other airlines*, used only two pilots, *i
34 September11 : I do recall that ValuJet was grounded by the FAA for maintenance violations. Was it few days or weeks after Flight 592?
35 Post contains images OttoPylit : Um, but the DC-9 IS crewed by 2 pilots, not 3. I'm pretty sure that Douglas did not feel the need, and in all of my flying days on DC-9's I NEVER rem
36 Srbmod : Eastern had a DC-8 crash into Lake Pontchartrain (killing 58) where supposedly the only piece they ever found was a galley door.
37 AeroWesty : I was staying with a friend in NY a few months ago when AirTran announced new service out of White Plains, not far from her house in Westchester. She
38 Srbmod : This shows you how times change. WSB here in Atlanta had a segment on the anniversary of the crash. At the time of the crash, WSB was a big Delta prom
39 OttoPylit : The Station Manager of MIA couldn't stand to work there anymore and had to move to be the STM in IAD before eventually leaving the company, IIRC. Aft
40 Aa757first : ValuJet was much more profitable than AirTran, AFAIK. That's the problem, they put profits before safety and 110 people had to pay for such senseless
41 TedTAce : Nobody wants to pony up the money. They were 'lucky' that a bunch of FIU students were willing to donate their time and energy for what materials wer
42 RiddlePilot215 : But you guys have Forklift Joe! On a serious note however. It may have only been 10 years, however I think as a pilot, such incidents remain fresh in
43 Post contains links AvConsultant : Oh yes, you are correct. I was replying to the previous post on incompetence of the media's reporting. J7 demanded a retraction which went unheard un
44 Post contains links Dizzy8 : The SaberTech employees WERE trained on Hazmat (DGR) but decided that the procedure was inconvenient in this instance. Human nature is such that one
45 AASTEW : I was an J7 Flight Attendant from Oct. 95 till the shutdown mid June 96. J7 violated a lot of safety procedures. Any J7 employees at the time can back
46 Post contains images TERRA : 10 years, my god time flies. This incident at least gave the industry a huge shake up and has been a bench mark for airlines globally ever since. I us
47 Lowsonboy : Last time I checked this was supposed to be a thread about the Valujet 592 tragedy 10 years ago... maybe the title hints at that... not for pathetic b
48 Scotland1979 : I remember it very well... It was 2 big news happened in Florida on the same day. First it was the plane that crashed in Florida on May 11, 1996 Secon
49 Cactus739 : 10 years..... hard to believe its been such a long time.... I remember seeing about the crash on CNN and having no clue who Valujet was.... Unfortunat
50 Post contains links OttoPylit : Airtran refused to even mark the 10th anniversary of the crash: http://www.baltimoresun.com/business....story?coll=bal-business-headlines "The discoun
51 OttoPylit : Then your opinion doesn't carry much, since a sterile cockpit means there is to be no conversation that is not directly related to business. I never
52 Post contains links Wjcandee : The COMAT manifest in this case said "Empty" oxy generator canisters. Had they re-read that, it probably shouldn't have been cause for concern. The p
53 Garnetpalmetto : I'm locking this thread because it has gotten way out of hand and rather than honored the memories of those who perished in the crash has instead turn
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